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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: JJ Girl on Friday 10 March 23 04:52 GMT (UK)

Title: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: JJ Girl on Friday 10 March 23 04:52 GMT (UK)
Hello Everyone!

I wonder if someone would be able to translate a portion of a marriage entry for me please.

The husband (this is his section) is Michael Ronsperger - I am particularly interested in any information about his occupation and parents names etc.

Thanks so much for any help.....JJ
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: davecapps on Saturday 11 March 23 10:44 GMT (UK)
Hi
Difficult writing.
i have started transcribing your text. Just a few words i´m having trouble with.
Get back to you later. I had a look at the complete page. Can you read the rest?
Dave
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: davecapps on Saturday 11 March 23 13:25 GMT (UK)
Spalte 1-2
Eingeschrieben
den 20 Novbr
1852
Get(raut) den 22
Novbr 1852
von
Pfarrer Bernhard
C?????

Spalte 3
Ronsperger, Michl
Strumpfwirker
ledig kath(olisch) geb(orene) in der
Pfenne, Neuern in Böh-
men, Klattauer Kreis.
ehel(iche) Sohn des Johann
Ronsperger, Inwohners
seel(ig) und dessen noch le-
bende Ehegattin Bar-
bara geb(orene) Eichinger
Aufgeboth 21 Novbr


Coulmns 1-2
registered am 20 November 1852
Married am 22 November 1852
Priest: Bernhard ??

Column 3
Ronsperger, Michl
Sockmaker
single, catholic, born in the Pfenne, Neuern, Bohemia, county Klattauer
legitimate son of the deceased agricultural labourer Johann Ronsperger
and his wife Barbara nee Eichinger. Still alive

Banns on the 21 November

rest later
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: Zefiro on Saturday 11 March 23 14:49 GMT (UK)
Dave, I think it's Pfarre (Parish) where you read Pfenne.
Neuern : Nýrsko in Czech Republic
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: davecapps on Saturday 11 March 23 14:55 GMT (UK)
Hi Zefiro
Thanks for that. Couldn´t see wood for trees.

in the next column i read
Schottenfeld 325
??
?? sechs
Wachau

any ideas
Thanks
Dave
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: fiddlerslass on Saturday 11 March 23 16:09 GMT (UK)
The archives which cover Neuen/Nyrsko is Plzeň


https://www.portafontium.eu/searching/register?search_api_views_fulltext=&search_api_views_fulltext_1=nyrsko&search_api_views_fulltext_2=&field_register_type%5B%5D=register-birth&search_api_aggregation_3=&field_doc_dates_field_doc_dates_from=

Enter the name of the town in Czech in the box marked "misto", you don't need to use the diacritics. Usefully there are some indexes. There is the option to switch to German (if this is easier than Czech for you) in the header and to choose "matriken" for parish registers .

Enjoy!

Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: Zefiro on Saturday 11 March 23 17:10 GMT (UK)

in the next column i read
Schottenfeld 325
??
?? sechs
Wachau


Schottenfeld
N. 325
...
über sechs
Wochen

Where did you find the whole page? I find it difficult to read documents like this without having an overview (columns without headers can be tough to understand when you don't know what you're supposed to read).
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: davecapps on Saturday 11 March 23 17:42 GMT (UK)
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/61634/images/49345_b702531-00273?pId=10131990
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: davecapps on Saturday 11 March 23 18:00 GMT (UK)
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/wien/06-gumpendorf/02-21/?pg=274

Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: Zefiro on Saturday 11 March 23 19:02 GMT (UK)
Priest (Pfarrer) Leonhard Contriner.
He died of cholera in 1855, together with 262 people from Gumpendorf
https://www.pfarre-gumpendorf.at/index.php/unsere-pfarre/geschichte-unserer-pfarre
His death:
https://data.matricula-online.eu/de/oesterreich/wien/06-gumpendorf/03-23/?pg=192

Schottenfeld 325
Zeugnis
über sechs
Wochen

To get permission for your wedding, you had to be living in the place for at least 6 weeks. Permission was granted here, because he was residing in the city for more than 6 weeks.




Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: JJ Girl on Sunday 12 March 23 09:59 GMT (UK)
Hi Everyone,

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!  Sorry for the slow reply - I'm on the other side of the world in Australia....just logged on and saw the wonderful information.

Dave - thank you so much for the translation - this is sooooooo helpful - a "sock maker" how fabulous!

Fiddlerslass - thanks for the link to the archives site - if only I could speak German or Czech! Might have to learn a new language!  :)

Zefiro - the link to the article about Gumpendorf is great - thank you.

This is a very challenging branch to research - there are lots of certificates with lots of information - but unfortunately I have NO skills in translation.  I really appreciate your help.

Quick question - if I put up other requests (not too many at a time I promise) - am I better to put the link to the ancestry image?  I was concerned about copyright issues, and wanted to do the right thing.

Again, thank you for your time and assistance, it is truly appreciated.

JJ
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: JJ Girl on Sunday 12 March 23 10:26 GMT (UK)
Me again!

I wonder if I could ask if it would be possible to have some information translated about Michael's bride Johannah Willimetz - her father's name and occupation would be so helpful.

Thank you......JJ
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: Zefiro on Sunday 12 March 23 12:03 GMT (UK)
Willimetz
Johanna Hand-
arbeiterin, led(ig),
kath(olisch), geb(oren) in der
Pfarre Neuge-
dein in Böhmen
ehl(iche) Tochter des
Josef Willimetz
Bürgers am Le-
ben, und dessen
seelichen Ehegattin
Dorothea geb(oren)
Adamek

Johanna Willimetz, laborer, single, catholic, born 30 July 1829 in the parish of *Neugedein (Bohemia),
legitimate daughter of Joseph Willimetz, citizen, alive, and his late wife Dorothea, born Adamek

*Neugedein: Kdyně (Czech Republic)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kdyn%C4%9B

No information about het fathers occupation, unless Bürger has a another meaning that I'm not aware of.


Quick question - if I put up other requests (not too many at a time I promise) - am I better to put the link to the ancestry image?  I was concerned about copyright issues, and wanted to do the right thing.


I find it better when there is an onlink link provided, but I don't know about the copyright.
Anyone to shed light on this issue?

And please feel free to post your requests here. It gives me (and presumably others) the change to practice this German handwriting. (because I personnaly feel that it's the kind of handwriting you need to keep practicing, otherwise you lose some of the skills).
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: davecapps on Sunday 12 March 23 13:19 GMT (UK)
Here´s Johanna´s birth
second from the top
https://www.portafontium.eu/iipimage/30063710/kdyne-09_1100-n?x=21&y=116&w=484&h=180

here also, the fathers occupation was Bürger

Transcription following
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: davecapps on Sunday 12 March 23 14:22 GMT (UK)
Baptized: on the 31 July 1829
House number: 125
Name: Johanna, born yesterday
religion: catholic
sex: female
status: legitimate
Father: Joseph Willimetz, Bürger v.d.
Mother: Dorothea, legitimate daughter of  Wentzl Adamek ??
???????? and the mother Susanne nee Oswald from Aulikau
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: davecapps on Sunday 12 March 23 20:06 GMT (UK)
update. what do think Zefiro

Mother: Dorothea, legitimate daughter of  Wentzl Adamek ??
Czernikau, Chudnitzen (Hschft) Herrschaft (under the rule of House of Czernin in Chudnitz)
and the mother Susanne nee Oswald from Aulikau

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czernin_family
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: Zefiro on Sunday 12 March 23 21:28 GMT (UK)
I'll take a further look tomorrow, but this is what I read:
Mother: Dorothea, ehliche Tochter des Wenzel Adamek, ??
von Czernikau, Chudnitzer Herrschafts und der Mutter Susana
geborenen Oswald von Aulikau

They had a daughter the year before on 14 July. Fathers name is Thomas, his occupation is master shoemaker (Schumachermeister). I have no clue as to what was written as his occupation in 1829.
https://www.portafontium.eu/iipimage/30063710/kdyne-09_1040-n?x=103&y=270&w=586&h=205
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: JJ Girl on Monday 13 March 23 00:41 GMT (UK)
Zefiro and Dave - thank you again - this is very interesting and so helpful.

Thank you Dave for finding Johanna Willimetz's birth record - I haven't seen that one yet! Amazing!

And please feel free to post your requests here. It gives me (and presumably others) the change to practice this German handwriting. (because I personnaly feel that it's the kind of handwriting you need to keep practicing, otherwise you lose some of the skills).

Thank you Zefiro - that is so kind of you - I have quite a few more to be translated.  Quick question - Is it better to start a new thread for each one or just add them into this one?

Thank you again...JJ  :)
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: JJ Girl on Monday 13 March 23 00:47 GMT (UK)
They had a daughter the year before on 14 July. Fathers name is Thomas, his occupation is master shoemaker (Schumachermeister). I have no clue as to what was written as his occupation in 1829.
https://www.portafontium.eu/iipimage/30063710/kdyne-09_1040-n?x=103&y=270&w=586&h=205

Zefiro - this might be a dumb question - but who was Thomas?  I thought Johannah's father was Joseph?  Did Dorothea have a different husband the year before, or have I got this a bit confused.....JJ
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: davecapps on Monday 13 March 23 11:39 GMT (UK)
Quote
Baptized: on the 31 July 1829
House number: 125
Name: Johanna, born yesterday
religion: catholic
sex: female
status: legitimate
Father: Joseph Willimetz, Bürger v.d.
Mother: Dorothea, legitimate daughter of  Wentzl (Thomas) Adamek and Susanne nee Oswald from Aulikau
Quote

This is the Thomas Zefiro meant. in Franziska´s birth entry in 1828
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: fiddlerslass on Monday 13 March 23 17:12 GMT (UK)

Couple of bits I'm not sure of

https://www.portafontium.eu/iipimage/30068490/stanetice-03_0430-o?x=115&y=393&w=164&h=253

Marriage Aulikau 22 Nov 1796 house 5

Wenzel Adamek, son of Adam Adamek, farmer, of ( Tischowitz ?) No 17 Chudenitzer herrschaft, katholic bachelor age 22

Susanna daughter of Jakob Oswald( something )of Aulikau No 5 Bystritzer Herrschaft, katholic spinster age 18

The following baptism is in latin

https://www.portafontium.eu/iipimage/30068488/stanetice-01_0500-n?x=499&y=151&w=352&h=544

1779
August 23 born, 24th bapt Aulikau

Susanna Ozbolt, occupation of Jakob is cottager, wife is Ludmilla. House 5
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: fiddlerslass on Monday 13 March 23 18:14 GMT (UK)
Marriage Aug 28  1827 Joseph Willimetz, son of Thomas  and Dorthea Adamek Dau of Wenzel in Czernitau

https://www.portafontium.eu/iipimage/30067382/polen-09_1410-o?x=81&y=143&w=274&h=424
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: Zefiro on Monday 13 March 23 19:58 GMT (UK)

Susanna daughter of Jakob Oswald ( something )of Aulikau No 5 Bystritzer Herrschaft, katholic spinster age 18


the word is Chalupner, which is the same as Häusler, so a small farmer, with little or no land of his own.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaluppe
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: davecapps on Monday 13 March 23 20:07 GMT (UK)

Wenzel Adamek, son of Adam Adamek, farmer, of ( Tischowitz ?) No 17 Chudenitzer herrschaft, katholic bachelor age 22
The place is than more thane likely
Tieschowitz
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C4%9B%C5%A1ovice_u_Prachatic
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: Zefiro on Monday 13 March 23 20:19 GMT (UK)
Quick question - Is it better to start a new thread for each one or just add them into this one?

Thank you again...JJ  :)

That's up to you. If the thread gets too long, just start a new one.

Quote
Baptized: on the 31 July 1829
House number: 125
Name: Johanna, born yesterday
religion: catholic
sex: female
status: legitimate
Father: Joseph Willimetz, Bürger v.d.
Mother: Dorothea, legitimate daughter of  Wentzl (Thomas) Adamek and Susanne nee Oswald from Aulikau
Quote

This is the Thomas Zefiro meant. in Franziska´s birth entry in 1828

Correct. I should've been more clear when I wrote this.
Title: Re: Help with translation from German to English - Marriage Certificate 1852
Post by: JJ Girl on Wednesday 15 March 23 07:34 GMT (UK)
Zefiro, Dave and Fiddlerslass,

I am so grateful for your help translating this document - I am very impressed that you can read that curly script - I certainly can't!!

Thanks also for the bonus information along the way - so wonderful to find facts about a branch I have found very difficult to navigate.

Kind regards,

JJ  :)

P.S. I will start a new thread with a few more documents (not too many at once I promise)...