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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: PaulJ56 on Sunday 05 March 23 14:24 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
Looking for information regarding an Elizabeth Holliday, spinster, who married a widower, William Bethwaite of Dalston on 28 Sept 1850 aged 40, at Cockermouth Registry Office. Her father is named on the marriage certificate as Thomas Holliday.
1851 and 1861 censuses show her birthplace as Holm Cultram, 1871 to 1891 say Abbey Holm(e).
!851 census following the marriage shows William's children from an earlier marriage and a son to Elizabeth called Thomas aged 6.
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deleted - totally wrong, sorry
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Looking at Elizabeth's son Thomas - the only Thomas HOLLIDAY (or similar) I can see birth registered at Wigton around 1840 is Thomas Brough HOLLIDAY mmn BROUGH, however he appears in Holme St Cuthbert in 1861 with his family, so not Elizabeth's son. There are a few births with no mmn, but not in Wigan Registration District.
will keep looking ...
Modified to add:
This is probably him:
Thomas HOLLIDAY Sep qtr 1844 Wigton, no mmn
Baptised 26 Feb 1845 at Wigton, mother Betty HOLLIDAY
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I wonder if this is Elizabeth in 1841 - at Aspatria, Abbey Holme (both born in County)
Ann HOLLIDAY 80 (ind)
Elizabeth 35
HO107/160/2/8 pg9
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I notice some family trees on Ancestry have her baptism as 25 Aug 1805 (born 24 July 1805) at Holme Cultram, parents Wilkinson HOLLIDAY and Isabella GRAHAM. Can't see how this is right if her father was "Thomas" on her marriage. Also, she would be getting a little bit old to still be having children in 1859 (Dinah Jane).
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Thanks Maddy.
The only other bit of information we have is a baptism of a Betty Holliday, daughter of Thomas Holliday and Sarah Scott. As yet still to find further information hence the request.
Detail Source
Name: Betty Holliday
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 10 Mar 1811
Baptism Place: Arthuret, Cumberland, England
Father:
Thomas Holliday
Mother:
Sarah Scott
FHL Film Number: 1471997
As for her son Thomas we have a record for him being born on the Wigton Workhouse on 20th Feb 1845 but I can't remember where that record came from. His baptism one says 26th Feb 1845, mother Betty Holliday. We have him with her in the 1851, 1861 and 1871 censuses. The idea of the workhouse sounds right.
Cheers
Paul
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Hello
Baptism for Thomas s of Betty Holliday at Wigton 26 Feb 1845
Ciderdrinker
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Whilst the baptism of Elizabeth HOLLIDAY in Arthuret is around the right time, it is quite some way from Holme Cultram. :-\ It seems like there were a few Thomas HOLLIDAYs around Holme Cultram, but none that I can see baptised a child Elizabeth. Does the marriage in 1850 have an occupation for her father? And who were the witnesses - possible family members?
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St Mary, Holm Cultram
Marriages;
21 Dec 1805
Thomas HOLIDAY/Mally SIMM
Bachelor/Spinster age 22/22
29 Dec 1808
Thomas HOLIDAY/Jane REED
Widower/Spinster age 24/20 (Jane a minor)
Bapt same Church;
WILLIAM Holiday 22 Oct 1806, born 12 Oct, to Thomas/Mary
Father a Yeoman, abode Blackdyke
Mother Simm
Father's surname suffixed jun.; Mother lately deceased; Mother's surname is before marriage
The only childs bapt I can find to Thomas/Jane is Chambers Reed HOLLIDAY 13 Jan 1823
Father a InnKeeper
So if the Marriage above is to Jane REED 1808 and the bapt 1823 is theirs there must be more children 1808-1823?
Just posting as may be related depending what the occp of Thomas was on the 1850 M/C
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I looked at this family earlier, there is also:
Thomas Chambers bu 22 Jun 1812 at Holme Cultram, abode Wigton, son of Thomas and Jane, 10 months.
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Hi Trish/Maddy,
Thanks once again for having a look for us.
The MC says Thomas Holliday was a husbandsman so looking after animals.
Elizabeth was living at Great Broughton and William at Flimby at the time of the marriage. Witnesses are a Sarah Walker and can't decipher the other one, scan attached.
Trying to check Elizabeth's age we have 40 in 1850, 42 in 1851, 50 in 1861, 57 in 1871, 69 in 1881, 80 in 1891 and 85 at time of death in 1897 so the birth year ranges from 1809 to 1814 but assuming the earlier dates are more correct we're looking at 1809-1811.
If the mother IS Jane Reed then that wipes out the Arthuret baptism of 1811
Do you know if the Carlisle record office have the St Mary, Holm Cultram records? One reason is there are more antecedents on both sides of the family from Cumberland so it would make a trip across worthwhile.
I had followed one Thomas Holliday who married a Catherine Tunstall in 1868 but realised I was following the wrong one as Elizabeth's Thomas was still with her and single on the 1871 census (DOH!)
Cheers
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I think the other witness might be Robert McBRIDE. Probably doesn't help much, have you tried tracing Sarah WALKER (common name though!) just in case she is related to Elizabeth? Will have a look. :)
Good to know Thomas' occupation - I think this rules out Thomas and Jane, as he appears to be an innkeeper later. As I mentioned, there are a few Thomas HOLLIDAYs in the area, will look again at them.
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As Elizabeth was married in Cockermouth in 1850, I'm wondering ...
There is an Ann HOLLIDAY died Mar qtr 1850 registered at Cockermouth (25/54) aged 84. This age just about tallies with the Ann HOLLIDAY on the 1841 census I mentioned earlier. Is this a coincidence or did Ann and Elizabeth both move from Aspatria to the Cockermouth area. :-\
If I had unlimited resources I might be inclined to purchase the death certificate to see if the address is the same as Elizabeth's marriage, and who the informant was.
Though this Ann could also be the Ann HOLLIDAY at Great Broughton aged 75 in the 1841 with a couple of servants and ag labs. HO107/160/11 pg16. I didn't realise HOLLIDAY was such a popular name!