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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: brigidmac on Friday 03 March 23 00:19 GMT (UK)

Title: When great grandparents are related
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 03 March 23 00:19 GMT (UK)
I've got a chance to look at a concrete example which might effect DNA cm amounts

DNA results just in but I think I can see high DNA matches to some descendants of
Thomas B.+ Eliza H


Caroline Ann  C... (nee B.)’s father
Thomas John B was a brother of Eliza Caroline B, wife of Alfred C
. Eliza Caroline was born in Kensington in 1866 and Thomas John was born in Chelsea in 1871.
Both were children of Thomas B. Cab Driver and Eliza Nee H

This means that Caroline + Alfred C.... s son  Eric Alfred C..’s paternal grandmother and maternal grandfather were brother and sister.

I'm looking at DNA matches for their child

Ive used initials for  surnames for privacy reasons

But will be able to compare results with anyone who has a similar scenario.
Ps the 2 great grandparents in this case are both from paternal side
Title: Re: When great grandparents are related
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Friday 03 March 23 07:41 GMT (UK)
That is not as unusual as you might think.
It happened in my Paternal Ancestors born in 1890s
One Daughter married her Mother's Youngest Brother
One Child Died at Birth
The other Son was Not normal though lived.
Title: Re: When great grandparents are related
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 03 March 23 08:14 GMT (UK)
It's very common in small communities .
It's also common among Jewish community
& LDS

 This is the closest example I've got in someones tree whose DNA I manage so it will be very useful to compare DNA matches if descendants.

Especially for someone else  who's birth father I'm identifying + already know that some of the matches have second cousin marriages in their lineage.

Alamo have you done DNA test ?
Title: Re: When great grandparents are related
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Friday 03 March 23 08:32 GMT (UK)
Yes
Finally got around to a DNA test which I resisted for years for some unknown reason.
Now got 400 Cousins
In touch with about 20

My Great Grandfather came to Liverpool from Dublin
His Father was a Corkcutter
Found a Corkcutter Same Name as his Dad
I had a Theory that he was the older brother who came over to Liverpool first that Great Grandfather followed over.
Could never prove it or convince my Cousin of my Theory.
That Corkcutter converted to Mormon and emigrated to Salt Lake City in 1880s
Just been contacted "out the blue" by his Great Grandchildren who found Our DNA matched .
Proving they were Brothers with the Same Dad Corkcutter in Dublin
DNA proved my Theory

Title: Re: When great grandparents are related
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 03 March 23 09:09 GMT (UK)
Yes that's what I'm finding too .I now manage 3 generations of DNA + some of my mother's 2ndhalf C  too
The DNA relationships suggested by ancestry   invariably fit with top suggestions to our knowledge on  paper work . Except where there's been an adoption or double connection

I've only recently come across Mormons not my direct relations but really good research it's part of the culture and when you find the common ancestors 100s of thru lines show up . I find quite a small percent have mistakes in their trees .

Well done for following your hunch .

Title: Re: When great grandparents are related
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Friday 03 March 23 09:16 GMT (UK)


https://www.pbs.org/mormons/etc/genealogy.html#:~:text=Mormons%20trace%20their%20family%20trees,strengthen%20the%20eternal%20family%20unit.
Title: Re: When great grandparents are related
Post by: melba_schmelba on Friday 03 March 23 11:31 GMT (UK)
It's very common in small communities .
It's also common among Jewish community
& LDS
I am not even sure 'small communities' was required. I have several examples in people who don't fit that description. I think people were more suspicious of non family members in those days, and an unmarried family member was seen as a 'safe' match for perhaps those who hadn't married by 25. But have also seen the phenomenena of widowed men marrying their cousins soon after losing a wife. Basically a marriage of convenience for someone to look after the children or/and the household. Last cousin marriage I can find is the 1930s. Probably it happened less simply because people moved about a lot more later on.
Title: Re: When great grandparents are related
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 03 March 23 12:33 GMT (UK)
You're right Melba and of course meeting at a wedding was common.
Old maids song  with Scottish accent
" Oh I've often heard it said fra me mother and me faither
That the gang (going) to a wedding is the making of another..
Iffen that be so will you hai me to your wedding

...
Title: Re: When great grandparents are related
Post by: brigidmac on Saturday 04 March 23 06:05 GMT (UK)
Re original post

Thru lines have just come up on ancestry
To gson of Alfred ( but are rearranging themselves due to some tree changes )

ALFREDs C  grandmother s brother  married grandfathers sister

Any descendants of Thomas B the cab driver and Eliza H
would be  shared great grandparents  TWICE Alfred  2nd cousins thru 2 different lines .

Alfred has  only have 6 great grandparents

But will this make a DIFFERENCE at 4th C level

And WILL thru lines show both connections ?

Will double check all suggested matches and let you know
Title: Re: When great grandparents are related
Post by: DavNich on Saturday 04 March 23 17:12 GMT (UK)
On Ancestry my DNA matches are :-
Paternal     4788
Maternal.   3757
Unassigned 2266
Do you think that my maternal grandparents are fifth cousins explain the above.
David
Title: Re: When great grandparents are related
Post by: brigidmac on Tuesday 07 March 23 00:53 GMT (UK)
Davnich
that's the number of matches that you have not the cm  amounts

Are you asking why you have so many unassigned?

It's just because they are too distant or to small an amount . You can assign matches to one of your parents yourself if you know the connection.

Most of the tests I have access to have far more matches than you

1 with ABT 7000 paternal 5000 maternal has 4800 unassigned

The owner has not added the parental side or the relationship to their matches despite common ancestors showing .

Does that answer your question ?




Title: Re: When great grandparents are related
Post by: brigidmac on Tuesday 07 March 23 01:30 GMT (UK)
Regarding my initial post
The family concerned were a  long line of  London cab drivers  surname BRADFORD

I have found more  connections between the patriarchs children

He had twin sons ..in 1875
One of the BRADFORD twins and his
Older brother both married TOTTMAN sisters

So
Thomas j Bradford 1871 married his sister in law

His daughter married his sister's son

Thru lines has adapted  + the highest match has a 3% probability of being a 3Cousin1R
the  match is 116cm 5 segments

Title: Re: When great grandparents are related
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 23 June 23 04:23 BST (UK)
I think thru lines are affected

Last year ancestry had a function where alternative common ancestors relationships could be viewed on thru lines that function seems to have disappeared

It's an advantage in a way as they only have 14 great great grandparents instead of 16.

Their late  father had 6 grandparents instead of 8
His DNA results would have been interesting
Does anyone know someone in that situation who has tested?