RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Montgomeryshire => Topic started by: amberly on Saturday 25 February 23 01:43 GMT (UK)
-
One of my rellies named Mary Ellen Lewis b in April 1842 & bap 18 April in Guilsfield d/o James Lewis of Broniarth, innkeeper & Mary of Pentre Broniarth Upper who married in Guilsfield in 1836. Mary Ellen was their first child but I have never been able to find her living with them. From Family Trees on Ancestry I found her married & living in the US.
According to the 1900 US Federal Census she immigrated to the US in 1848 & she would have only been 6 years old at the time. I've searched passenger lists etc & cannot find her emigrating at all. At 6 years of age she wouldn't have gone alone would she & why?? It also said she'd lived in the US 52 years so therefore her given age of 58 would be correct.
On the 1920 US census it says she immigrated in 1860 & naturalized in 1890. Have searched but can't find trace of these either.
However she married on 4 December 1864 in Knox, Ohio to a man named Morton Hugh WILLITTS, had several children & the last one was named Edward Cureton Willitts & this really caught my eye as this Mary Ellen's grandmother was Mary Ann Cureton & she had a father & a brother both named Edward Cureton. So I'm pretty sure this is the Mary Ellen I was searching for BUT can anyone shed light onto her emigrating in 1848 when she was 6??? Any suggestions please as this seems to be quite a conundrum.
Thanks to anyone who replies with any info.
Amberly.
-
Who were the other children of James and Mary? I can't easily see birth registrations.
Debra :)
-
Is this Mary - Jun qtr 1842 Montgomery (27/113) mmn DICKEN
-
Good Morning :)
Information from parish records for background:~
In 1941 the parents were in Guilsfield
Pentre, Broniarth Upper
James Lewis , 25, Publican
Mary, 25,
Mary Griffiths, 15, Female servant
All born county - note 5 year rounding of age in the 1841
Baptism of Mary Ellen in Guilsfield
18 April 1842, Mary Ellen Lewis d, of James (Innkeeper) and Mary Lewis of Broniarth
By 1851, they are in Bangor on Dee, Flintshire
New Inn, Bangor
James, 33, Innkeeper, b. Llansantfraid, Montgomeryshire
Mary, 35, b. Whitchurch, Shrophire
John, 5, b. Bangor/Dee
William Davies, 55, general servant, b. Bangor
The family must have moved to Bangor on Dee by 1846 - John, aged 5, b Bangor
(no burials for her in the period 1842 -1851found so far)
I have Cureton ancestors from Shropshire and have a book about the group who migrated to USA. I'll dig it out and see if there are any clues.
Gadget
-
Have you verified that the Mary Ellen who emigrated to USA is the same one as the Guilsford one ( i.e. is there anything in the records that says her parents were James and Mary and she was born Montgomeryshire) or have you used the Ancestry tree for your initial info?
Gadget
-
Death Certificate for Mary Ellen Willitts born 1843 and passed away 27 March 1928 - parents James Lewis and Mary Dickins.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N3PL-J5P
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:HVDL-CCN2
Certificate :-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6QH4-2F?i=1598
Sandra
-
It is possible that the passenger list did not survive in that era.
James may have travelled before his wife Mary and daughter Mary and son John.
The husband sometimes went ahead and the wife and family followed later.
So they could also appear separately on passenger lists.
Sandra
-
In the 1880 census (which has her immigrating in 1848) she is given born England, father b. England and mother b. Wales)
Her death record gives her mother and father correctly in that a James Lewis married a Mary Dickins in 1836 Ive also found a birth registration for a Mary Ellen Lewis, Q 2, Montgomery, with mother's maiden surname as Dicken.
I'll keep looking for anything that might be relevant.
Gadget
Drinking so early, Sandra ;D ;D ;D
-
No, sorry. Rarely have a tipple these days.
If Mary was older and travelled by herself .............??
The nationality may not be correct, they loved to use "ditto" on those passenger lists so it doesn't mean she was "Irish"
Sometimes, the earlier passenger lists don't give enough information to positively identify someone.
Lewis would be a common name. So unless you find all 4 together, it might not be possible to find them.
This one fits 1860 but the information a little ambiguous to positively identify Mary.
New York Passenger List - Mary Lewis - 1844 - aged 16 years - (origin says Ireland but notice a lot of "ditto")
Gender: Female - Ethnicity/ Nationality: Irish -
Departure Port: Liverpool, England
Arrival Date: 5 May 1860 - Arrival Port: New York, New York, USA
Ship Name: New World
Sandra
-
James and Mary Lewis and their son, John, were in Bangor on Dee, in 1861, 1871 (James now a fruit dealer)
Mary died in May/June 1872, aged 57, and was buried on 4 June, at Bangor on Dee
James died in March 1884, aged 65 and was buried o n 31 March at Bangor on Dee
Gadget
-
Not had any luck with the obituary believe genealogy bank might have it :-\ Paid subscription.
You can create a free account but I have a feeling they want your card details (not a fan of those)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q5M7-NDY4
Obituary Daily Times Index, 1995-2016
WILLITS, Mary Ellen; 85; Seattle WA; Seattle P-I; 1928-3-28; jfco
Sandra
-
I think the James and Mary Lewis in Bangor in 1851 were a differnt family.
John Lewis birth registered in Wrexham District 1845 mmn Chester
James Lewis married Mary Chester in Bangor on 8th February 1839, also registered in Wrexham District
David
-
Edward Cureton Willits :'(
Oh how awful for an elderly mother to learn of her sons death from a fatal accident, a few months before she passed away herself.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DCVS-HQV?i=59
Sandra
-
There is a death showing for a Mary Lewis, aged 28, Q1, Montgomery. I'm not sure about this but am it putting up as a possible. Birth reg of Mary Ellen could have been s few weeks late.
The following is what I've found on the Bangor on Dee couple. I've not found a suitable marriage for a James Lewis and a Mary Davies, so far but could have overlooked it.
Mary Lewis, died, aged 57, May/June 1872 and was buried 4 June Bangor on Dee
The Bangor on Dee James re married a Margaret Peers 5 Oct 1872, Bangor on Dee:
James, 53,widr, a fruit dealer, Father John Lewis, a Gentleman
Margaret, 43, wid, Father John Evans, a Cattle Dealer.
James bpt, Llansanffraid Y M, Montgomeryshire. on 5th Oct 1818. to John (farmer) and Mary Lewis
James, aged 65, died March 1884 and was buried 31 March 1884, Bangor on Dee
I've not found parents on the US censuses so ????
Have you seen any traces of them, Sandra?
Gadget
-
Interesting there was another birth to a James and Mary in Guilsfield, Montgomery, Wales
christened 20 April 1845.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FMMR-LVD
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC1H-D6X
Sandra
-
As a result of finding that I then searched just for Mary with those two children.
New York Passenger List - Sarah Lewis - 1845 - aged 3 months.
Departure Port: Liverpool, England - Arrival Date 25 Jun 1845
Arrival Port New York.
Ship Name John R Skiddy
also travelling (all born England) :- Mary Lewis 29 years - Mary Lewis aged 3 years and infant Sarah 3 months
Sandra
-
Found you a copy in case you don't have ancestry.........
3rd - 4 th and fifth on the list
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939V-PQ9M-WC?i=469&cc=1849782&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQVRQ-W3S1
Sandra
-
Just slightly earlier - New York Passenger List - James Lewis - 1819 (aged 26 years)
Liverpool to New York on the Montezuma. 4 June 1845 - (9th from the bottom)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939V-PQ9S-MW?i=77&cc=1849782&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQVRQ-72G7
Sandra
-
The index for the obituary on Failysearch notes children as Mrs Lamyra Wilkes, Mrs Mary Whitney, Elmer E Willis, Charles M Willis, Mrs Mattie Willits (I wonder if the Willises are Willitts?)
Here's Mary Willetts with her married daughter Lamaire in 1901 1910 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MGJS-D69
It says place of birth Ohio, and English parents, but that could be because that's where her daughter was born
-
Been trawling a few 1850 and 1860 census - possibilities for a Sarah Lewis always single but there are quite a number of them so couldn't be sure for definite. Similar with Mary Lewis. Nothing for parents.
Might have another session tomorrow.
Sandra
-
You may have seen this one - Nothing in this short piece for Morton H Willits - sometimes they give a good in depth obit or death notice in the USA - sadly not this time.
Omaha Daily Bee Omaha, Nebraska
14 Apr 1907, Sun Page 2
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/119696756/omaha-daily-bee/
Sandra
-
Thanks to all these wonderful people who have answered my article. I've been busy in all free time I've had today reading them all & checking what each one of you has said. I live in Canada so am out of your time zone. I'll attempt to answer you 1 by 1.
DUNDEE, they had 3 children I believe, Mary Ellen b 1842 & Sarah b 1854 both in Guilsfield & John who was b in Bangor.
MADDYS52, yes you are correct Mary b 1842 mmn Dicken.
GADGET yes 1841 parents in Broniarth & James is a publican.
Baptism on Mary Ellen is correct.
In 1851 they are in Bangor & in 1861 but James is no longer a publican but a fruit dealer.
I'd love to hear about your Curetons who migrated to the US please.
GADGET again, Yes there are several documents that give her parents as James & Mary & no I have not relied on just the ancestry trees as several of them are incorrect [as usual] I've checked everything out
SANDRA Yes I found Mary Ellen's death cert & it indeed gave the correct parents.
SANDRA again, I don't believe I've found any suitable people on passenger lists beside which I found Mary Lewis died in 1872 aged 57 & was buried on June 4th in Bangor. James remarried in Oct 1872 to a Margaret Peers in Bangor. Marriage cert said James widower 53 a fruit dealer & Margaret Peers 43 a widow, father's name John EVANS a cattle dealer.
GADGET you are correct with Mary's death date & James'.
DCB I think what you say is correct .
No time to answer any more of you but will do tomorrow but it will be after lunch with you by the time I get up.
Just to say I found a FT belonging to a Kathleen Willits & heard back from her today & she believes we're both talking about the same lady, but we have to communicate some more yet to establish certainty,
More tomorrow ladies & thanks again for all you efforts.
Amberly.
-
DUNDEE, they had 3 children I believe, Mary Ellen b 1842 & Sarah b 1854 both in Guilsfield & John who was b in Bangor.
In 1851 they are in Bangor & in 1861 but James is no longer a publican but a fruit dealer.
The LEWIS couple found in Bangor from 1851 were James LEWIS and Mary CHESTER, not your James and Mary. John was their only surviving child.
Birth
LEWIS, MARY HANNAH
Mother's maiden surname: CHESTER
GRO Reference: 1840 J Quarter in WREXHAM Volume 27 Page 262
Death
LEWIS, MARY HANNAH
Aged 4
GRO Reference: 1845 M Quarter in WREXHAM Volume 27 Page 264
Birth
LEWIS, SARAH ANNE
Mother's maiden surname: CHESTER
GRO Reference: 1843 M Quarter in WREXHAM Volume 27 Page 273
Death
LEWIS, SARAH ANN
Aged 3
GRO Reference: 1846 J Quarter in WREXHAM Volume 27 Page 209
Birth
LEWIS, JOHN
Mother's maiden surname: CHESTER
GRO Reference: 1845 M Quarter in WREXHAM Volume 27 Page 277
The surviving 1841 census for Wrexham is not online.
The 1841 census returns for the whole registration district of Wrexham, Denbighshire, were believed to be missing. However, the original enumeration books for the town of Wrexham were discovered in a bookshop, and are now deposited in the Denbighshire Archives. An indexed transcript has been published by the Clwyd Family History Society, and a copy is available at The National Archives.
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/census-records/
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=347766.0
Debra :)
-
As Dundee has mentioned the Bangor couple are wrong. Your family left Wales in 1845.
Replies 15/16/17 which I have brought forward for you.
These are the passenger lists that show your couple leaving the UK in 1845. James went first. Then wife Mary, Daughters Mary and Sarah followed.
BUT can anyone shed light onto her emigrating in 1848 when she was 6??? Any suggestions please as this seems to be quite a conundrum.
Thanks to anyone who replies with any info.
Amberly.
As a result of finding that I then searched just for Mary with those two children.
New York Passenger List - Sarah Lewis - 1845 - aged 3 months.
Departure Port: Liverpool, England - Arrival Date 25 Jun 1845
Arrival Port New York.
Ship Name John R Skiddy
also travelling (all born England) :- Mary Lewis 29 years - Mary Lewis aged 3 years and infant Sarah 3 months
Sandra
Found you a copy in case you don't have ancestry.........
3rd - 4 th and fifth on the list
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939V-PQ9M-WC?i=469&cc=1849782&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQVRQ-W3S1
Sandra
Just slightly earlier - New York Passenger List - James Lewis - 1819 (aged 26 years)
Liverpool to New York on the Montezuma. 4 June 1845 - (9th from the bottom)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939V-PQ9S-MW?i=77&cc=1849782&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQVRQ-72G7
Sandra
-
Has anyone found any records of James, Mary snr or Sarah in the US after 1848. I've run census checks on them on 3 different sites and, so far, there doesn't seem to be any obvious mentions.
-
Something that might be of interest, is the marriage bond of James to Mary Dicken, although she signed the register as Dickin.
The bond is available at The National Library of Wales and may have names of other relatives or abodes: http://www.rootschat.com/links/01s51/
Although there are no other bonds for Dickens, there are some more Dickins, but mostly over the border in Shropshire: http://www.rootschat.com/links/01s52/
There was a Mary Dickin, of Pentre Aron (now Aaron), baptised in Whittington, Shropshire, in 1815, which matches her age on the 1841 census, although it may have been rounded down.
David
-
The Whittington baptism looks correct. The details fit with the bond.
Add - also possible bpt in Pulverbatch in 1816 to Edward (farmer) and Mary
-
There is a marriage ( by licence) of a Mary Ann Cureton* to a Dickins, in St Chads, Shrewsbury on 13 Dec 1814. However, this is a John Dickins of Worthen
* mentioned as grandmother to Mary Ellen in first post.
-
Marriage Bond, Lichfield, 9 Dec 1814, has John and Mary Ann , both over 21.
Add - Mary of Shrewsbury.
-
I see that John and Mary Ann Dickin had a daughter, Mary, baptised in Worthen on 30 Jan 1816, which is a near match for the 1841 census.
I also see that a John and Mary Ann had children in Guilsfield:-
Charles Robert Dicken, of Trawscoed, on 27 Jul 1823
Sarah Maria Dicken, of Trawscoed, on 6 Oct 1825
Like the baptism of Mary, John was a farmer.
They both married in Guilsfield:-
Charles (signed as Dickin) to Ann Parry on 29th March 1845
Sarah (signed as Dickin) to David Roberts on 24th March 1845
David
-
Mmm - need to check the Worthen Dickins for a brother Edward, maybe.
PS - no Edwards in the Worthen records. John bpt 9 May 1790, parents - Arthur and Jane.
-
An interesting monumental inscription, in St Aelhaiarn, Guilsfield, which may confirm that Mary was the daughter of John and Mary Ann, and some trees on Ancestry agree:-
Note 1: Recorded as an "altar tomb" in Mont. Colls. Vol 33 with the inscription:
Here lieth the remains of Mary Ann the wife of John DICKIN late of Trowscoed Bach
and sister of the late General C............ 16th Lancers who departed this life
Nov 9 1847 aged 62 years
In memory of John DICKIN who died Nov 19 1855 aged 84 years
Here lieth the remains of Chas Robert DICKIN Son of John & Mary Ann DICKIN
who departed this life Dec 17 1846 aged 23 years.
Note 2: General Charles Robert CURETON,
16th (or the Queen's) Regiment of (Light) Dragoons (Lancers); (Lt. Col. in Hart's Army List 1844);
born 1789 and killed at Ramnager, Punjab, Nov 22 1848 (see Cavalry Journal No 26 p.204)
David
-
Looks good, David :)
So where did the name Edward come from ??
-
1841
Trawscoed, Guilsfield
John Dicking, 60, farmer, not born county
Mary Ann, 50. -do-
Sarah, 15, born county
and 4 servants
-
The most likely John born Worthen is
28 March 1776, John son of William and Mary Dickin
-
Location of Trawscoed
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01s53/
-
Amberly ~
You asked about my Curetons - they were living in Grinshill and then Wem in the late 16th and early 17th centuries. I'm descended from one of the daughters who married a Sand(i)land and moved to Montgomeryshire/Denbighshire/Shopshire borders. one of the Sandiland daughters married a Jones!!
I recall that some of the family moved to US as early settlers. I must get my book out.
Gadget
-
To GADGET & DCB all you've said re the family is correct. On one of my trips home, I live in Canada now, I went to Worthen Hall, & to Guilsfield cemetery & took photos of the graves & to Trawscoed House & St Chad's in Shrewsbury & stayed in Elmsmere where brother Edward had had a grocer's shop after he went bankrupt in London & died there.
Here is the Dickin & Cureton info:
Wm Dickin b Worthen 1744 m 1. Mary Beddows 1748 b Westbury, Shrops d 1773. He m again in 1775 in Worthen to Mary Furmstone 1748/1819.
They had John Dickin 1776/1855 m 1814 at St Chad's Shrewsbury Mary Ann Cureton 1785/1847. This is where the Edwards come into it, Mary Ann's father was Edward Cureton 1756/1796 m Henrietta Bill 1760/1818 in London & they had a son Edward 1789/1849 unmarried. I mentioned these 2 Edwards in my original email because I saw that Mary Ellen Lewis had named her last son Edward Cureton Willitts & this jumped out at me. In 1816 John Dickin lived at Worthen Hall & by 1841 was living at Trawscoed House in Guilsfield.
Mary Dickin 1816/1872 who m James Lewis had a brother Charles Robert 1823/1846, a sister Sarah Maria 1825/1886 who m into the maternal side of my Roberts family in Guilsfield & then a stillborn in 1827. Once I found Edward Cureton Willitts on a tree from the US I contacted the owner who said her father was born a year before Mary Ellen died but was too young to remember her & they had nothing to go on other than what US censuses told them. So it's definite that it was Mary Dickin who m James Lewis, NOT Mary Chester.
DCB I've learned a lot of history through following the Cureton's in the Indian Army, fascinating stuff. The General Chas Rbt Cureton who died in Ramnagar, his wife was given a grace & favour apartment in Hampton Court when he died.
AFN, will do more as the day goes by.
Thank you all again, Amberly
-
SANDRA have now had time to look at the passenger lists you sent & I'm pretty sure it's them with father James going ahead of the family. Well done for finding them, it sure was a search!
Now they arrived in NY but where did they go after that I wonder & where do I start looking?? Mary Ellen didn't marry Morton H Willets until 1864 in Knox, Ohio. She had 20 years to live somewhere & I'm not really au fait with the US censuses so don't know where to start. Any ideas anyone please??
Thanks, Sandra for your efforts.
Amberly
-
You can search the census records on FamilySearch.
There is this one from 1850, I wonder if the places of birth are the wrong way around for Charles and Mary because the children have not been written down in order of age.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MF8N-Q6M
Debra :)
-
It certainly is difficult with such common names! I did see this 1880 census which I wondered about in Summit, Ohio. Couldn't find a marriage for Robert McGINN and Sarah LEWIS though, or a birth or further records for young Sarah LEWIS to either rule it in or out.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GYBH-9MRZ?i=12&cc=1417683
Robert McGINN 50 Ireland
Sarah 40 Wales
Mary A LEWIS 72 Wales (mother-in-law, wid)
Sarah 8 Ohio (niece)
Frederick JONES 40 Wales (boarder)
-
May just be a coincidence, but there is a census record for 1850 in Michigan which has the right names, together some right ages and birth places.
Mary, wife of James, has an age transcribed as 83, but the 8 is smudged and is actually 33.
Children, Mary and Sarah are the right age with different birth places, plus a son, Charles.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MF8N-Q69
in 1860, Mary has a different husband, Richard Lewis, with children, Mary and Charles, but no Sarah.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MW67-VHP
In 1870, Sarah and Charles are at home, but no Mary.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MHHY-8MY
David
-
That looks an interesting find, David. Have you found any birth info for Charles?
Gadget
-
Unfortunately, I can't find a birth, but there is a possible match in 1900
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MSMG-ZZX
David
-
Places of birth for self/father/mother for both of them match. The FS images are not easy to read on a very small laptop. I'll need to look at them on my pay sites!
I'm busy today so can't do much looking.
-
DUNDEE & MADDYs52 thanks for all these. I do think Dundee's 3 census are correct but sorry Maddys52 not yours.
I have to go out now but will investigate all further when I get back for lunch.
You guys are all great I'm now getting somewhere I believe with all your help. I spent a couple of hours last night searching & found nothing, so well done to all of you.
Amberly
-
I've found a marriage of a Charles Lewis and Etta Laurence in Kalamazoo, Michigan, 5 June 1874 Charles recorded as Farmer. Residence - Howard City.
-
GADGET- thanks this looks good too. He'd be 21 or so by 1874. Will do more myself after I've had my lunch. Amberly.
-
Some trees on Ancestry have the Lewis family of Kalamazoo. One has a photograph of Charles, but no information about his birth or ancestry. It also has photos of his wife and grandchildren
If you have access, this is the link: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/tree/55050554/family?cfpid=13758217442
There is also a photo of the grave of his grandson, Raymond:-
https://images.findagrave.com/photos/2017/10/93257704_1484193682.jpg
If correct, Charles married Sarah Russ in 1872. In the record, he is shown as Lewis Charles of Kalamazoo, b 1848. However, unlike the census, it gives his birth place as St Lewis, Missouri.
David
-
in 1860, Mary has a different husband, Richard Lewis, with children, Mary and Charles, but no Sarah.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MW67-VHP
David
Brady Post Office.
The 1860 census was Schoolcraft, Kalamazoo, Michigan.
The 1870 census was Schoolcraft, Kalamazoo, Michigan.
The 1880 census was Schoolcraft, Kalamazoo, Michigan.
The trouble is Lewis can be a very common surname. There was also an 1850 census showing Richard and Mary.
Brady, Kalamazoo, Michigan 1850 - all born England.
Richard Lewis 43 Mary Lewis 41
Richard Jones 25
Ellen Lewis 10
Francis Biddoes 30
In 1870, Sarah and Charles are at home, but no Mary.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MHHY-8MY
1880 census Schoolcraft, Kalamazoo, Michigan.
Richard Lewis 74 Self (Head)
Mary Lewis 65 Wife
Richard Lewis death - 22 Jul 1883
Death Place Vicksburg, Kalamazoo, Michigan.
FIND A GRAVE
Richard Lewis
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25624933/richard-lewis
Mary Lewis passed 24 May 1890 (aged 73 years)
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/25624930/mary-lewis
Death Certificate Richard (married) - 22 Jul 1883
Death Place Vicksburg, Kalamazoo, Michigan - parents unknown
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DH5W-LNM?i=402&cc=1452402&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AN3JR-M4H
death certificate Mary Lewis (widow) :- Father's Name Mr. Hotchkiss
and Mother's Name Mrs. Hotchkiss
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N3FR-R5H
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DHQN-DR?i=1043&cc=1452402&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AN3FR-R5H
Sandra
-
SANDRA Mary Lewis death in 1890 in Kalamazoo showed her parents incorrectly as Hotchkiss & her birth as 1814.
DCB & SANDRA I'm not yet convinced she married a Richard Lewis as
a] I haven't yet found James' death,
b] also haven't found a marriage of Mary to Richard,
c] it's a little odd that she married another Lewis, although not impossible considering the # of Lewis' living around that area!
No time for more at the mo but will get back to this later today.
Thanks again guys, Amberly
-
I think Sandra is correct. There is a marriage of Richard Lewis to Mary Hotchkiss on 10th December 1838 in Shrewsbury, Shropshire.
There are in Condover, Shropshire, in 1841, with the same ages as the 1860-70 censuses.
I can't see them in 1851, so they may have left England before the census.
Either the 1850 census is a different family or the name of Mary's husband is an error.
Sorry for any of my errors.
David
-
Hi David,
No apologises needed, all possibilities have to be investigated.
It is difficult to find birth records, marriages and deaths for that time frame.
Of course the American Civil War destroyed records in some States.
This may be a mystery that is not solved. So back to the drawing boards.
Sandra
-
SANDRA Mary Lewis death in 1890 in Kalamazoo showed her parents incorrectly as Hotchkiss & her birth as 1814.
Yes, that's what I was pointing out to you so that people didn't waste there time going along that line.
As I have said, birth, marriage and death records are sometimes few and far between in that time frame. We can't be exactly sure where they went in the USA, except that Mary ended up in Ohio.
I have tried searching page by page on census in Knox and Clinton Ohio but nothing positive so far.
Try to locate that obituary that was mentioned earlier. If Mary knew who her parents were and where they came from, she could have passed that information to her family. Clutching at straws but worth looking into.
Sandra
-
I was puzzled as to why the children of Richard and Mary in 1860-70, were not with them in 1850, but children of the same names and ages were with James and Mary.
It may mean nothing, but I looked at the possible history of Richard Lewis, son of Richard Lewis, a farmer, who married Mary Ann Hotchkiss on 3rd December 1838 in Shrewsbury.
In 1841, he was an Innkeeper in Condover, Shropshire, about 25 miles from where James Lewis was an Publican/Innkeeper.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQRK-5Q2
The census indicates that he wasn't born in Shropshire, and there is a match for a baptism in Llansanfraid-ym-Mechain on 5th March 1807, son of Richard, a farmer, and Eleanor. The abode of Mary Dickin's father was Llansanfraid/Llansaintffraid on his burial record.
Following Richard's baptism, a number of other baptism for children of Richard, a farmer, and Eleanor, were in Broniarth.
A James Lewis was a witness to the marriage of Richard's brother, David, in 1833. The signature isn't very different from the one on his marriage, considering that it was nine years later and restricted in height by the one above.
Pure speculation, but where all of them James and Mary's children? Perhaps Richard and James were related, or acquainted, and the children were in the care of Richard and Mary. It often happened when one or both parents died.
There are some trees which have Richard and Eleanor marrying in Llansanfraid-ym-Mechain in 1805. They don't have Richard in 1807, possibly because he wasn't born in Broniarth. Also a lot with Mary Ann Hotchkiss, but not her marriage to Richard.
David
-
DCB fascinating info & what a lot of work you've done to find all that. Thanks. I shall pursue it all eventually, but we've had a death in the family this week & life is busier than usual, but I'll get back to this before long.
Thanks again. Amberly.
-
Reply to MABEL BAGSHAWE on page 3.
I've been trying to sort out your info for at least a week now & I keep getting interrupted however today seems to be a free day, I'm pleased to say, & I've sorted the following out.
There are a lot of W's in this family, Willets, Whitney's & Wilkes but I think I've got it straight now. I didn't know that Lamaire [Lamira] was Mary Ellen's step daughter for a start, I only knew of Mary E 1860/1954 & she married Adelbert [Edelbert] B Whitney. On their marriage cert I found the witnesses were Eugene & Samira [Lamira] Wilks 1855/1931 & then found that her parents were Martin [Morton] Willets & Martha C Jackson who was Morton's 1st wife & she died in 1863 & he remarried to Mary Ellen in 1864.
The spelling of names was pretty bad but often of course the person couldn't read & write so it was left to the scribe to write it as he heard it!!
So thanks very much for that info it enabled me to sort quite a bit out.
Amberly.
-
For DCB. I'm still searching off & on with your ideas & have found 10 children for Richard & Elinor [Eleanor[ of Broniarth, Guilsfield but NO James, on FindMyPast. I do agree that the signatures of James that you sent are pretty identical & probably are from the same person. However when I go back to Family Search the 1860 census with Richard & family has his wife as Marian & in fact his wife's name was Mary Ann so I don't feel that it's our Mary that's living with him. When I look at the names on FindMyPast in the Guilsfield area there are so many names the same so this Richard could easily have used the same names as James & Mary. I haven't given up but it's so time consuming that I never seem to have long enough to get it finished, so it's onwards & upwards!
I must say I haven't found deaths for James or Mary or any other census for them, nor anything for Sarah & Charles either, but as I said I haven't given up yet. Watch this space as I'll tell you in due course what else I come up with.
Thanks for all your suggestions, Amberly.
-
Just a small point on Mary Ann, I have relatives of that name who were sometimes written as Marian. I think it is the way that the enumerator or clerk interprets the spoken word.
David
-
Yes I agree with you but James wife was just Mary [Dickin] & Richard's was Mary Ann [Hotchkiss] so the scribe could've/should've only heard Mary for James wife & possibly Mary Ann so Marian for Richard's.
I'm just revisiting a note from Sandra re the death of Richard & Mary & about to work on that so watch this space I'm forever optimistic it'll all get sorted.
Thanks again, Amberly