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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cheshire => England => Cheshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: ewontner on Tuesday 21 February 23 16:43 GMT (UK)
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Hi there. I am currently researching the life of Wheeler Staff Sergeant Henry Harper who died in WW1 on 30 May 1916. He was married to Emily Brooke and they married on 13 April 1901 in Christchurch, Hampshire. According to his wedding certificate his father was "Thomas Harper" a shoemaker and he isn't listed as deceased. This is leaving me feeling a bit confused as from searching out records, I think his father might be Thomas Harper, innkeeper of Duke of York Pub, Frodsham Street, Chester (who died in 1887). Looking for the power of the crowd to identify the true origins of Henry Harper - so that I can determine what his real family origins are.
https://boardoftradewarmemorial.wordpress.com - see entry - https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20070604034733/http://www.dti.gov.uk/about/aboutus/warmemorial/ww1/indexd/page30069.html (I think the 1901 family connection is incorrect)
Also why would someone serving with the Royal Field Artillery be listed as "accidentally drowned" or "died at sea".
Thanks in advance.
Ed
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There is a Thomas Harper, Cordwainer (shoemaker) in Chester in 1851 2172/ 293/4
He is a widower. Going through censuses, there seem to be a couple of Henrys born to him.
In 1881 3554 /125/27
He is an innkeeper with a son Henry, 16 yrs
Fathers are not always mentioned as ‘deceased’ on marriage certificates.
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If it's of any help, a Wheeler was someone who repaired and maintained the gun carriages, limbers etc. The civilian equivalent was a wheelwright. Therefore I would have expected Staff Sergeant Harper to possibly have had a civilian trade prior to joining the army which had similar skills, such as a carpenter, coach builder or wheelwright. It's highly unlikely that he would have had a completely unrelated trade like a baker or shoemaker. Since he had reached the rank of staff sergeant it implies he had been in the Army for some time, say a minimum of 8 -10 years. Possibly he was a career soldier and that's where he learned his trade of wheeler.
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Hi there. I am currently researching the life of Wheeler Staff Sergeant Henry Harper who died in WW1 on 30 May 1916. He was married to Emily Brooke and they married on 13 April 1901 in Christchurch, Hampshire. According to his wedding certificate his father was "Thomas Harper" a shoemaker and he isn't listed as deceased. This is leaving me feeling a bit confused as from searching out records, I think his father might be Thomas Harper, innkeeper of Duke of York Pub, Frodsham Street, Chester (who died in 1887). Looking for the power of the crowd to identify the true origins of Henry Harper - so that I can determine what his real family origins are.
https://boardoftradewarmemorial.wordpress.com - see entry - https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20070604034733/http://www.dti.gov.uk/about/aboutus/warmemorial/ww1/indexd/page30069.html (I think the 1901 family connection is incorrect)
Also why would someone serving with the Royal Field Artillery be listed as "accidentally drowned" or "died at sea".
Thanks in advance.
Ed
His Soldiers Effects 51249 says Accidently Drowned
Doesn't say at Sea
Mostly likely it meant he wasn't Shot or Shelled but fell off the Duck Boards into the Ponds alongside in the Mud
Or likely because it says Accidently
he was possibly moving an Artillery Gun and got stuck in a Shell Hole and trapped under the wheel in water and drowned because his Mates couldn't move the gun off him in time.
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His Soldiers Effects War Gratuity was awarded £12 :10s
Which based on Service Length
Confirms Andy Theory that he was in the Army pre War
He went Overseas 31/05/1915
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If it's of any help, a Wheeler was someone who repaired and maintained the gun carriages, limbers etc. The civilian equivalent was a wheelwright. Therefore I would have expected Staff Sergeant Harper to possibly have had a civilian trade prior to joining the army which had similar skills, such as a carpenter, coach builder or wheelwright. It's highly unlikely that he would have had a completely unrelated trade like a baker or shoemaker. Since he had reached the rank of staff sergeant it implies he had been in the Army for some time, say a minimum of 8 -10 years. Possibly he was a career soldier and that's where he learned his trade of wheeler.
1901 1037 /181/2
Henry Harper single 25 yrs Bombardier (RHA) Wheeler b Chester
It's highly unlikely that he would have had a completely unrelated trade like a baker or shoemaker.
It was his father who was a shoemaker.
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Isn't that what Andy said
He was a Wheelwright in the Army before the War and didn't follow his Dad as Cordwainer ?
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Oh, beg your pardon. I obviously misunderstood. There is nothing to say what his trade was before the censuses.
I thought a Wheeler was different to a wheelwright.
I was trying to show that, yes, he was a career soldier.
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Thanks for the help so far. I am particularly keen to work out whether who I think is Henry's father is correct or not. If Thomas Harper was a cordwainer in 1851 maybe its the same person and he later worked as an innkeeper.
According to Henry's "UK, Soldiers Died in Great War entry" he IS recorded as "died at sea".
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/381343:1543?ssrc=pt&tid=116702037&pid=390174665042 - I am guessing that's an error.
Then in his record of personal effects he is listed as "accidentally drowned.
Henry was previously in the army before WW1. He was based at Christchurch Barracks and there is a record for him at Royal Hospital Chelsea dated 1912. I haven't seen the actual record only the index record.
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This is the history of the 160th Brigade, Royal Field Artillery - https://wartimememoriesproject.com/greatwar/allied/fartillery.php?pid=9751 - it says they went overseas in January 1916.
Another thing that puzzles me is who Henry Harper served with before that date as he served in France from 31 May 1915. Maybe he transferred to the 160th Brigade (given his previous army record). I am aware that Henry's war service record does not survive so its not going to be possible to piece everything together.
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In 1901 he is shown in the census as RHA.
Fold3 has a record for Henry Harper Royal Regiment of Artillery (R.H.&R.F.A.)
Regimental Number: 7569
Does that number fit with your record.
With regard to his parents etc, there is only one birth in Chester.
1874 with mother’s name Siddons.
There is a marriage in 1873 where Thomas Harper and Fanny Siddons are on the same page.
Thomas was a widower and an Inn Keeper though on that marriage.
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Thanks for the reply @heywood - I have found the records for Thomas Harper (innkeeper) and Fanny Siddons and that's why I am confused by Henry Harper's later marriage record listing his father as a "shoemaker".
On the regimental number of 7569 that was his earlier pre-war service record, which tallies with him returning to army as a "Wheeler Staff Sergeant" and previous army service.
Unfortunately his full service record does not survive. Already aware that only about a quarter of the WW1 service records survive due to records being bombed during WW2, so completely understand that I won't be able to piece everything together. I just really hope that I've linked Henry to the right family.
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The other thing that makes me doubt the records is census estimating his birth at 1876. I've previously found the birth for 1874 (which points to his parents being Thomas Harper and Fanny Siddons) but not 100% sure its all correct.
It's great to have a second opinion and view of the records from different perspective. I really want to honour Henry Harper's lifestory in right way and that means identifying the correct person through the records.
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I can see that it may be difficult but Thomas, the inn keeper was previously a Cordwainer/shoe maker.
I have just found a published tree which shows the three marriages of Thomas Harper. He is a shoe maker on two and on the three marriages, his father is Thomas, a Whitesmith.
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Do you have 1891 2863/127
Henry Harper, 16 yrs Groom b Chester lodging with a Wainright family.
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His 1894-1912 army papers (7569) are worth a look. They are on FindMyPast as well as Fold 3.
Next of Kin, before his marriage, was his uncle Henry Siddons, 23 Earls Villas, City Road, Chester.
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That’s great to hear :)
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Baptism of 1874 Henry, son of Thomas & Fanny. Image is available. Father publican of Frodsham street.
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3JH-6XN
Brother for Henry, John Edward birth reg mmn Siddons
Image says John Edward
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F3JH-FDD
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Yes - I've also traced Thomas Harper back - see: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/116702037/person/390174665042/facts. Its the jump from being a shoemaker to innkeeper that was bothering me.
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Thanks @shaunj - that also confirms his mother was Fanny Siddons.
I was questioning whether I had the right family background because of the discrepancy in this father's occupation. So sad that his father was married and had 3 bereavements for each of his wives. Henry's younger brother John Edward Harper also was born and died in 1875 and at least 2 or 3 or of his step-siblings also died.
Thanks for everyone's help! Only another 100+ other Board of Trade names to research!
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Only another 100+ other Board of Trade names to research!
One question not yet answered is why Henry Harper is on the Board of Trade memorial.