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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: BillyF on Sunday 19 February 23 19:27 GMT (UK)
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Mulling over my life ( as you do), I was thinking about my birth.
I was born in mid 1940s in a maternity home. I was wondering what this would have cost.
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Depends if it was pre NHS or after .
I seem to remember a Maternity home ,started by the Crossley family.
(Crossley springs and motors)
In Ancoats ,a very deprived area of Manchester .
I doubt there would be a fee, as it was to ensure some decent care for new mothers ,many whose homes did not even have a hot water supply .
Later run by The Salvation Army.
Viktoria.
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NHS began in 1948 I think, so if you say you was born mid 1940s then it would have been just before. Not sure about fees though, as Viktoria said, it may have been for free.
While on the subject of births, many of us will have seen our birth certs, but no doubt some who do genealogy have looked at their own entry in the GRO indexes online, or in person in those huge ledgers at Somerset House and later FRC in Clerkenwell.
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My OH was born at home in 1948 and my late Ma-In-Law said that the midwife charged 3 shillings, she said when saw him, he was so small and skinny that she should have only been charged half price ;D
Carol
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Thanks for your interest.
It was 1945 !!!!! ( can`t really believe it) in a North Lincolnshire town.
I wish I`d had the sense to ask my mum, she didn`t pass away until 2014 so I had plenty of time. One thing i "can" remember is that she said they "had to see a specialist to get me"
The 3 shillings is interesting, I would imagine hundreds in today`s money.
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I was an NHS Freebie ;D ;D
Carol
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Some families would probably have had a type of health insurance to cover births etc.
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Recall my grandfather telling me that when my mother was born in the late 1920's he had got the horse and cart and gone to the nearest town to pick up the midwife -- this was in rural North Wales.
Not sure how much involvement doctors had in those days.
As my grandmother was 45 and this was her first baby she had been given some tablets to 'keep the baby small' during her pregnancy in the hope that labour would be easier - can't guess what they might have been! Anyway baby arrived very quickly weighing 4 lbs !!
My other grandmother - one of fifteen - all born at home in a very rural Welsh village - local midwife summoned each time - recall grandmother saying how when her twin baby brothers were born (1901) she - a ten year old - had to cover them in olive oil - wrap them in cotton wool and put them in a basket by the fire and it was her job to look after them. They survived - when they were 4 months old their mother was expecting another baby!
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It is an interesting question Billy. When my elder brother was born in 1951 my parents were living in South Buckinghamshire. Apparently facilities were still less than adequate after the war and mother was told in no uncertain terms that she couldn't possibly have her baby in hospital - she must have it at home! So she booked herself into the nice maternity home near her mothers house back in Cheshire instead. I can't imagine it was run by the NHS but I never thought to ask if it cost much! She did the same when I was expected, but I was a breech baby and the doctor moved us to a hospital, which made the home staff very indignant. I doubt if mother was happy either as it wasn't even the nearest hospital!
When people asked where I was born I used to think why they wanted to know before answering - we lived in one county, moved to another for the birth and ended up being born in a third. Nowadays it is probably commonplace as my son lives in a county with no maternity facilities at all!
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I was born in 1947, before the advent of the NHS. Somewhere I do have the bill which my father paid for midwife services. If I can find it I'll post!
Regards
GS
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Another 1947 baby - I was born in Bethnal Green hospital (London), not sure why as my parents were living in Chelsea, before it became fashionable.
Zetlander's grandfather fetched the midwife with a horse and cart - when my mother was born in 1913, grandad had to cycle 3 miles in an October gale to fetch their midwife, escort her to the house and probably home again if conditions hadn't improved.
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I asked my older Sister if she knew what the cost of a midwife was when she was born in 1946, she seems to remember that she had heard our Mother say that the midwife was sitting in the chair knitting and singing "Onward Christian Soldiers" and that she charged 2 shillings and sixpence for doing "s@d all" ;D
Carol
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I was a home birth in 1937, the Midwife was known to local mothers as
“ Nurse Bertha “.
She had a Nurse’s uniform ,Navy blue, a little round Nurse’s hat that was turned up, as they were in the thirties.
She always found out from local newspapers when “ her “ babies were getting married from local newspaper announcements .
She would attend the weddings.
So it was on a chucking it down with rain afternoon in August 1956,at my wedding tea in the Church Hall,my brother in law ( best man ) stood up to give his speech, when in at the door came this little figure , in an ancient Nurses’ uniform, a ripple of recognition went round the room” It’s Nurse Bertha!” and so it was.
My brother in law started his speech with “Well I have heard of shotgun weddings but this is ridiculous”
I don’t think anyone had put the kettle on in the kitchen. !
Viktoria.
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Loving all your "birth experiences".
I was born in 1946 at "Simpsons" in Edinburgh. I should have been a home birth but evidently I was too stubborn ;D ;D and my poor mum was taken to hospital. Dad said I cost him half a crown. My sister was born in 1952 in hospital too and was free. According to Dad you only get what you pay for which never amused my sister :-X :-X
I still have the discharge card from the hospital amongst my souvenirs.
Dorrie
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Thank you all for the replies.
it`s just one of several questions that I`d thought to ask. sadly now too late.
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My mother paid Half a Crown to the midwife when I was born in 1938 and half a Crown to a single young girl to come and look after the house and my brothers . My mother had to stop in bed for a week . Things have changed
Elizabeth
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Yes, but now I think things are a bit too quick, to stay in bed too long used to cause a dangerous condition named “ white leg” a circulatory problem ,possibly a clot ,however to be up too soon puts a strain on the pelvic muscles which have done a good job, and can lead to prolapses in later life.
So my G.P told me when I had my second baby -a home birth as my first was.
However ,more things have been found out in the intervening 64 years, but such short times in hospital and many young women think that is that and really don’t rest enough .
It is a very emotional time .
Viktoria.
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Around 20 years ago a neighbour went into labour in the early hours of Christmas Morning. A trip to the hospital after breakfast and home with her new baby in time to cook Christmas Dinner.
Noooo way to quick to be back on her feet.
Dorrie
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I had the choice of staying in the hospital for either 10 days or 2 days, as a new Mother, I thought 10 days would be best but I went home after 2 days.
I think in most cases, people recover from illness or surgery more quickly if they are mobile. The days have gone were people who are in hospital stay in bed, if they are mobile, they usually get them out of bed to sit in a chair.
Carol
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Great topic
I had a laugh at some of your topics
I was born at home as was my elder sister but we always joked That she was born in the bath
because she was born in the town of BATH
Younger sister was quite ill born in hospital but a big baby .
We were all post NHS so care was free.
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What a Stoic, but I wonder if she was O.K in the long term.?
Things are often not manifest at the time but problems can arise later.
In any case ,most women are in labour for much longer than your neighbour and are very tired.
My first was exactly 24 hours.
Second about the same and third about eighteen hours.
I was dead on my feet for a couple of days at least with all three and I wanted to feed them myself, not bottle feed, so rested as much as I could.
I don’t quite understand your last sentence dowdstree.
Viktoria.
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Not about cost but another thing we forget about the past is expectant mothers didn't know what they were expecting
Several methods were used to predict child's gender
My late aunt B 1927 told a lovely story from when she was about 4
Her cousin of a similar age was on standby when her aunt gave birth in Scotland
He came running down the street shouting
" it's a girl " half an hour later he was shouting " twai bairns "
to everyone s surprise
They weren't expecting twins !
Another 90 year old told me about being totally unprepared for twins when she gave birth .
Nowadays: twins . gender.health problems .can all be predicted .
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Yes, no scans ,only the “ listening tube” placed on mother- to be ‘s stomach to hear the baby’s heartbeat..
And as for father in the room ,no way!
Mine would have needed more attention than I was getting ,besides it is not exactly a dignified event!
Mine fell down the stairs as it was,mind you for some reason.best known to himself he had tied his shoelaces together whilst anxiously sitting on the top stair outside the bedroom,so when told to go in to hold his son,he stood up and felll downstairs ,told to stand in the airing cupboard where it was warm, he never actually came to me ,handed baby back to midwife at bedroom door and had to go or he would have been late for work!
A sackable offence at his office.
No kiss ir hug or enquiry was I O.K etc.
I brought that up frequently in the following 57 years our marriage but in his defence he worked for Scrooge and Marley at that time and his main thoughts would be to not lose his job with a new responsibility.
But it was handy to bring up now and then. ;D
Oh happy days for all that.
Must get on it is Friday and a house to clean well as much as possible .
Viktoria.
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Great topic
I had a laugh at some of your topics
I was born at home as was my elder sister but we always joked That she was born in the bath
because she was born in the town of BATH
A slight change in topic, but I always like to say I have female relatives who died in battle (Battle, Sussex, that is!).
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I guess the GI Bill paid for me. My father was a college student at the time so he didn't have any money. Once my mother was up and around, she went to work as a secretary in the chemistry department and she took me with her in a cardboard box.
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Fascinating stories, great thread. :D
I remember my grandmother telling me that she had no memory of giving birth to her two children (1927 and 1931), and she assumed she had been under anesthetic as she didn't feel a thing, so must have been in hospital (I guess) - in Sydney. No idea how it was paid for or how much, how long she would have stayed or whether in fact it was true.
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I can't say I have much memory of the births of my children either- I think I have blanked it out! The first was a long, tedious labour, emergency caesarean, 2 weeks in hospital, the second ended with forceps.
If I ever found myself walking along a certain corridor in that hospital, I always remembered being rushed along it on a trolley. :o
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My grandchildren didn't believe I hadn't a cot .My mother used a draw from her chest of draws and put a pillow inside . I remember some one saying their mother used the washing basket
Make do was those things in those days just before the war
happy memories
Elizabeth
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Aspin I saw a premature baby kept in a drawer
In 1985 ..looked like a wrinkley doll .
It was in Algeria .
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Someone I used to know was born around 1916 and was premature. She was kept in the oven. She lived into her 90's.
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I guess the GI Bill paid for me. My father was a college student at the time so he didn't have any money. Once my mother was up and around, she went to work as a secretary in the chemistry department and she took me with her in a cardboard box.
Love it!!
Carol
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For comparison and because I know some of you will never have seen one of these affiliation orders
This is what my great grandfather had to pay to cover birth of his daughter in 1900
First bit upkeep is 4/- (shillings) per week til she reaches age of 14
Next bit is medical attendant
£1-1-0 one pound one shilling
That seems very high ..maybe covered costs of mother to stay somewhere
Also 10/6 allowed ?
And 11/-
Whatever those last costs were .
he paid £2 /2/6 on 19/3/1900
Sorry I couldn't post whole document and it came out sideways .
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It was customary in households to put a young baby in the bottom drawer of a set of built in drawers right next to the big black kitchen range which was the hub of a terraced house.
Off the floor, more or less in a corner so not in the way of life going on around it.
Often what bed linen the house had would be there ,so a firm “ mattress” well aired was there for the baby.
Yes ,make do and mend was the norm, we had to put our adventurous one year old (still in the carry cot ,)into the bedding chest, I can see him now peeping over the top ,standing up and holding on to the edge .It was just temporary until the end of the month ,pay day ,and we could get a single bed for the eldest so younger one could go in the big cot.
The lid of the bedding chest was right down behind the chest between it and the wall,so it could not shut him in!
It was just for a couple of weeks.
Yes make do and mend was the norm, mind you I have never used a tennis racquet to strain spaghetti !
Viktoria.
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I was born in January 1945 at home. It had never crossed my mind before about the cost.
Amongst my Mum's photos though is one of my Dad in his Army uniform, his brother in his Navy uniform - and my Mum, outside our house. On the back are their names and the date of April 1944. So I was born 9 months later! I can tell you when I first saw that photo and the reverse - it gave me quite a turn.
I don't know if I was actually present on it, or whether I was 'yet to be'.
I also have my birth announcement in the local paper - I had no Christian name and was 'a gift of a daughter'. The announcement also said 'Thanking Nurse Neville and Mother'.
Another thing I love, which I have attached - is a photo of me as a baby, in what clearly doubled up as a tin wash tub, in front of the fire. I do remember this tin wash tub hanging on a large nail or something, in our back yard. Oh gosh - how times have changed.
I expect many of you of a similar age may have been bathed in the same way - or were you posh and had an actual bathroom!!
(Oops - sorry the photo came out larger than I expected!)
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My uncle was born in September 1944 and Nan said she had a difficult birth and had to have 2 doctors out. Nan said it was about 3 in the morning.
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Pennines...What a cracking photo and you were so cute with all those curls :-* Yes we had a tin bath hung on a nail outside, in a recess with a corrugated roof.
I think this photo deserves the attention of the photo board, a little colour too maybe.
Thanks for sharing.
Carol
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Great photo Pennines
Im going to ask people born pre NHS if they know anything about how much births in their. Families cost
And compare with the 1906 costs in my reply 31
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Oh - thank you so much for your kind words Treetotal and brigidmac.
It is the washing tub element which amuses me - and no, ours wasn't in a recess in the backyard - it just dangled and was exposed to all weathers!
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You really ought to have some cards made with that delightful photograph on them .
History.
Viktoria.
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Oh Viktoria!
Do you mean cards that can be put on a wall and darts thrown at them?
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Carters de visites ! I agree Viktoria they would be lovely
My mum B 1930
Remembers that her mother walked home from the infirmary with the baby sister in her arms that was 1935
Her parents didn't pay for hospital because they had
"A penny in the pound " system
Whether that was insurance or something to do with freemasonry she doesn't know
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What a lovely photo Pennines, really special. :D
When I was sorting through my mother's photo albums after she died I noticed one of her at a Christmas lunch with the year marked - I was born 8 months later so must have been there. :D
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Oh Maddys -- did that photo of your Mum give you a 'turn' as well when you associated the dates!
It was a real 'Oh Flippin' 'Eck' moment for me. The military uniforms of my Dad and his brother added to that I think.
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Oh Maddys -- did that photo of your Mum give you a 'turn' as well when you associated the dates!
It was a real 'Oh Flippin' 'Eck' moment for me. The military uniforms of my Dad and his brother added to that I think.
It did, I was certainly surprised when I realised. That's a lovely photo too, your mum looks so happy to have them home with her. :)
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Thanks all ! It just goes to show what a simple question can lead to !
What lovely stories and photos.
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Lovely photos shared Pennines, we still had the tin bath hanging in the outside corrugated iron clad wash-house next door at grandmas, along with the copper and a newer full size tin bath and also a flushing loo to replace the long-drop down the garden path. That was all a newish addition when our house was built next door when I was a year old, she was in her mid 70's by then and just not long widowed. Her home was a simple design, main room for living and dining with the warmth of the coal range and a bedroom either side of that, plus a small scullery at the back entrance.
The thread had me thinking when just a few posts old that it hadn't occurred to me re cost of birth, as others have said. I did look up for NZ and by the late 1930s free maternity care was available at public hospitals, private hospitals subsidised and independent midwives could deliver babies in private homes.
My siblings, early 1940s to mid 1950s were all born in maternity homes a few suburbs from where we lived, though in between and the odd one out I was born in the home of a midwife closer to home, our area was semi rural then. Mum spoke a little about each but not the cost and know she went back to a maternity home after me as it was new and closer than the older ones. My midwife was the wife of a fisherman and lived by the beach, mum said she was given fish for breakfast, lunch and dinner her whole confinement.
I still live closer to where I was born and grew up than the nearest hospital available when our children were born, like TotH I had an emergency caesarean for the first and then in hospital 16 days and so that would have added up in costs but all part of free maternity care.
Mum and her 4 siblings 1914-1920 must have all been born at home with a local midwife I think but don't recall it being discussed, same location as my family but less populated then.
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Thanks for starting this topic and on the subject of photos who are the gorgeous youngsters on your profile pics mare &
Treetotal
+ Your young ladies BillyF
& Maddy ( *I think I've asked before )
The baby in my profile is my late aunt Sylvia JONES who my nana walked home with in her arms from the hospital
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Oh Brigidmac - what a beautiful chubby baby! I wonder how heavy she was when your Nana had to carry her home from the hospital!
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Love your shared photos Pennines. If you was born Jan 1945 you are just 4 months younger than my said uncle born Sep 1944 who had to have 2 doctors attend his birth at 3am. My uncle died in January 2020 aged 75 though after a long battle with cancer.
So glad I asked my nan about when her 4 children were born as my nan died herself 2 years later.
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Thanks for starting this topic and on the subject of photos who are the gorgeous youngsters on your profile pics mare &
Treetotal
+ Your young ladies BillyF
& Maddy ( *I think I've asked before )
The baby in my profile is my late aunt Sylvia JONES who my nana walked home with in her arms from the hospital
It is my Aunt Betty, I think she was born in 1930.
Carol
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This will be interesting to many...it brought a smile to my face ;D
https://kidsofthe50sand60s.com/tag/baths/
Carol
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AND a lot of memories!!! :o
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I'll say, at every meal when growing we always had to say "Grace" I often wondered why, Dad was an Agnostic and Mum a lapsed Roman Catholic ???
At school, when it was home time, we had to sing:
At the end of the day,
Just kneel and say,
Thank you lord
For thy work and play,
I tried to be good,
for I know that I should,
That's my prayer for the end of the day!
I wonder if anyone else recognises it!
Carol
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At least it was short and snappy. We never said grace unless my grandfather was present, in which case he would be asked to say a few words and he would drone on for what seemed like ten or twelve minutes but was probably really only one or two.
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At half past three
We go home to tea
Or maybe a quarter to four
Then it’s rough and tumble
Clatter and noise .
Mums and Dads and girls and boys .
Baby in the carry cot .
Cat by the stove,
A little bit of quarrelling
A lot of love,
We sang that at the end of the day at one school where I worked,it was
lovely .
Viktoria.
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Oh Billy F -- just see what you started with your initial question!!
Carol - the Kids of the 50s and 60s - oh my goodness - what memories that evoked.
Coombs - Well the doctors attending your uncle's birth did a great job back then. To have 2 doctors at a birth back then seems amazing.
Regarding school Viktoria - I remember we didn't finish until 4.00pm - unlike today AND school was never closed if it snowed. From about age 5 we lived in the countryside and had to walk to a village school, whatever the weather.
This also brings to mind having a little paraffin lamp in the outside toilet to stop it freezing in winter. The bonus was, you could actually SEE when you went in at night.
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....and you were able to see if there was any spiders lurking ;D
Carol
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And see to read the squares of newspaper !
Trouble was you could never find the end of the article .
Actually, we had tissue paper, we had to cut it into squares and thread it on a bit of string with a big needle.
Mum seemed to have an endless supply of tissue paper ,but by comparison with reading whilst on the loo it was very boring .
We had to resort to Origami but it was not really known then and had it been we might have well been interned for Japanese practices !
We used newspaper to wrap vegetables in the shop ,vegetables were covered in soil in those days , and grease proof paper for fish but then in newspaper.
No plastic bags then!
Viktoria.
It was my task to scrub the loo seat, it was a wooden one, really white after my ministrations with Lifebuoy cleaning soap ,in a red bar.
Then wash and stepstone the floor .
Jeyes fluid down the grids or hot water with soda crystals dissolved in it to move any grease.
Then I got my “ spends” but had also to do the grocery shopping ,two ration books at one shop and two at another in case one got bombed .
Food was still rationed for a while after the war.
I earned my spends !
Viktoria.
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We had one of those tin baths as well. There was no indoor plumbing except a cold tap in the scullery, and there was a bucket toilet in a shed in the backyard, next to the coal shed. At least a bath in front of the living room fire was probably warmer than one in an unheated bathroom!
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We had that awful slippery toilet paper, Izal, the toilet always smelled of Carbolic soap. Our tap was outside in the backyard and it would freeze up in the winter. Dad had to put lighted paper under it to defrost it.
I remember my Mother
buying long green slabs of Palmolive soap, that she would cut a lump off at a time for us to wash with. We also had a dolly tub and posher, there used to be a copper in the yard for boiling the whites.
At the weekend when our parents went out for the night, they would often bring company back to the house to finish off the evening. We always had a piano and Mum would play all old wartime tunes. I was often called out of bed to come and sing for them whilst Mum played the piano. There would often be money put on top of the piano for my singing, I never saw much of it though ::) ;D
Carol
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My Dad had many zany theories ,one being that the substance in Jeyes’ toilet paper was a carcinogen!
Actually it is a coal tar derivative I think ,in which case he was not wrong.
Cancer of the b- -!
Another was that if you damaged the web of skin between thumb and forefinger you got lockjaw!
Yet he bathed in carbolic soap ,from WWI army days,the red stuff I cleaned the loo seat with ,but a different bar.
He also had trench feet in his knees!
Having been up to his knees in muck and bullets in the trenches!
His knees really were tender and inflamed ,probably some form of arthritis ,you know the one — arthuritis.
When you think how poor was the care poorer women got in home births , it is a wonder so many got though it , on the other hand they had no choice.
Women are wonderful you know!
I nearly died shortly after my birth ,my older sister perhaps feeling sorry for me as I was crying popped a piece from the end of a peeled banana in my open mouth ,
Mum was still in bed and her older sister was looking after her ,she noticed I was going blue,picked me up and shook me , my sister said she had given me some banana ,the piece came out and I regained a good colour .
I suppose you could say that answers a lot !
Then I had a swelling behind my left ear and jaw, like mumps .
Still only days old auntie rushed me on the bus which stopped just near our house to Ancoats Hospital .
I was operated on ,it was an abscess on my Parotid gland ,often caused by insufficient fluids .It was a very hot spell of weather ,at the time of George V’s
Coronation .
I have the scar still .
From where the access was removed.
A great big chap waiting for treatment was in tears because of my tears ,it seems I was thought too young to have any anaesthetic ,he was so upset.
It is only comparitively recent that Prem babies have been given pain relief and when you think of all the procedures they undergo!
So my first experiences in the world were a bit unusual.
I have no memories of any of that of course.
Viktoria.
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Thanks for starting this topic and on the subject of photos who are the gorgeous youngsters on your profile pics mare &
Treetotal
+ Your young ladies BillyF
& Maddy ( *I think I've asked before )
The baby in my profile is my late aunt Sylvia JONES who my nana walked home with in her arms from the hospital
My profile pic is my grandmother aged about 18 at Bondi Beach. She's the one who had no recollection of giving birth about 10 years later. :D
Re outdoor toilets, my Uncle's house still had an outdoor loo and dunny man collection once a week in 1982. This was in a suburban area on the Central Coast of NSW, not out in a remote area. I remember my brother and his friends stayed there on holiday for a week but would drive 15 minutes to the local RSL club to use the toilet rather than risk their sensibilities. ;)
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Relate to all those things so familiar in our childhood, don't we, stirring memories of the past. Recall boxes of apples wrapped in squares of tissue which were straightened out and saved for further use.
Brigid, my image is of self, a thinker or daydreamer possibly and preschool, aged about 4 as we didn't start school until 5 years in NZ. Photographed by dad with Box Brownie and possibly going somewhere as not usual round the house clothes, big bow in hair, tidy pinafore and white blouse and shoes and socks. Usually would be in the standard skirt with bib top that could be let down with growth and made by mum, knitted cardigan over the top and perhaps bare feet or gumboots, and a lighter cotton dress in summer. A few candid shots we have by dad, very few done professionally but a few school ones and a couple of family ones. Mum booked a photographer to come when younger sister was a baby, company had a catchy jingle on the radio. I would have been about three and a half and supposed to be in photographs and hair in rags for ringlets the night before, shyness or stubbornness had me spending the whole session hiding under my big sister's bed and nothing would coax me out ... reminds me of #2 granddaughter at that age currently :P
Sister featured in his display sample book after that shoot, beautiful baby with dark wavy hair in her layette and on the spread of one of those lovely spiderweb knitted shawls.
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Yes, the oranges were wrapped too,you have jolted my memory, we used those too when tissue paper ran out ,yes.
We would have a lot of those ,our shop was a green grocery shop, fruit and vegetables.
Viktoria.
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I had forgotten about that Izal toilet paper - but I do remember those squares of newspaper on a string. Can you imagine the colour of that part of our anatomy from the newspaper print!!
We haven't mentioned chamber pots under the bed! We called them 'jerry's' for some reason.
I also recall the posser, dolly tub and mangle. In addition the rack hanging from the ceiling above the coal fire, to dry the clothes.
When we moved to the countryside - we didn't have electricity - and used gas mantles for light. Electricity came whilst we lived there and I recall the utter joy of just being able to switch on a light.
How spoilt we are today with all the mod cons we have AND we take them for granted.
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Treetotal had an outside tap and a copper in the yard, so our inside tap and copper in the scullery were luxuries!
Pennines - "When we moved to the countryside - we didn't have electricity - and used gas mantles for light." Was that laid on gas or bottled gas?
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During my stay in Shropshire as an evacuee ,we did not have any water supply except a rainwater barrel ,soooo soft for washing us and clothes.
Drinking and cooking ,a spout with water run off the local lead mine!
Crystal clear ,icy cold and delicious.
We collected it by buckets on a wooden yoke on our shoulders with a bucket each side on a chain .
It served the Shropshire hamlet for well over a hundred years then it was condemned,( lead) the fluoridated replacement is hard and tasteless.
On return visits and chatting with those people still alive from my wartime childhood there, we lament the loss of that water.
It is funny, in that such tasks were seen as fun,on return visits I would ask if I could fetch water, chop morning kindling,gather sticks,go for the milk to the farm,feed the pig and the chickens., collect eggs.
Viktoria.
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Top of the Hill - I'm afraid I don't know if it was bottled gas or laid on piped gas! How awful is that. However I was quite young when we moved up there (about 5) - so I didn't know anything clever about how things worked.
(I think I contacted you sometime ago as your user name is Top of the Hill - and I lived at 'Top' O' Th' Meadow', as that child. We didn't bother with unnecessary letters!!)
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My mum and dad technically had 2 and a bit children. She had a miscarriage once at Brands Hatch in Surrey and had to go to the toilet to give birth to a small fetus. Probably inbetween her 1st and 3rd month.
My hospital card does not have my first name, just "baby" and surname. Parents had not yet decided on a forename for me until about a week later yet my brother was given a forename straight away after birth and his hospital card says his forename.
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My daughter has a fairly old-fashioned name which I have discovered can be mis-spelled in various ways. Very shortly after her birth, with me still groggy, the nurse said - has she got a name? Yes, I said. "How do you spell that?" she said. Um ::) ;D
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I have never heard that before “Two and a bit children “, but you never forget a lost baby.
I lost a non identical twin at about three months .
Was very breathless that morning and just getting over the awful morning noon and night sickness .
Went to town for new Whitsuntide clothes for my two boys ,knew something was wrong ——
A wonderful Doctor came from his holiday ,after phoning to see if any patient needed him.
Otherwise I would have been in for aD&C the next morning ,his Locum’s decision.
Otherwise I would have lost my daughter too ,so no grandchildren ,no Flash
Harry or Baby Kyra.
No scans in far off 1967, no one had any idea at that early stage I was having twins.
That reminds me - I hope Annette is alright , I loved the photographs of the girlies.
A old spell forecast up here in The North - cold this evening.
Just watching “ Dogs Behaving ( Very) Badly “.
Graham is amazing.
Look after yourself folks .
Cheerio .Viktoria.
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I have never heard that before “Two and a bit children “, but you never forget a lost baby.
I lost a non identical twin at about three months .
Was very breathless that morning and just getting over the awful morning noon and night sickness .
Went to town for new Whitsuntide clothes for my two boys ,knew something was wrong ——
A wonderful Doctor came from his holiday ,after phoning to see if any patient needed him.
Otherwise I would have been in for aD&C the next morning ,his Locum’s decision.
Otherwise I would have lost my daughter too ,so no grandchildren ,no Flash
Harry or Baby Kyra.
No scans in far off 1967, no one had any idea at that early stage I was having twins.
That reminds me - I hope Annette is alright , I loved the photographs of the girlies.
A old spell forecast up here in The North - cold this evening.
Just watching “ Dogs Behaving ( Very) Badly “.
Graham is amazing.
Look after yourself folks .
Cheerio .Viktoria.
A friend once said her mother had "6 and a bit children" referring to her miscarried baby. I always see miscarried children as part of the family, as they need to be remembered.
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Yes, I wonder what that baby would have been like ,another girl but as non identical perhaps a boy .
I thought I was still carrying the baby ,well I was one, but one had been lost -
mostly in the Drs,on the floor, after a brutal internal examination .
I thought that was it, the appointment next day was for a D&C.
I was even given Ergot.
I had no idea it was having twins. Had my GP not intervened I might have had what would effectively have been an abortion.and I would have lost my daughter too. It is horrible to think about it .
It was too early to hear heartbeats. No scans in 1967.
But after that I was so well looked after by my GP . The wonderful Dr,Guenter.
He died two years ago ,a lovely Belgian man ,with thank goodness perfect English .
Just a pity he was on holiday at the Belgian coast when I phoned him ,,well his practice, but he came back to see me that evening after checking with his locum ,and said I must not go to the Clinic for the D&C.
Stop taking the Ergot.
I wonder if the lost baby might have been saved.
I do remember it ,and always on its would have been birth date.
Hope anyone who has lost a baby gets some comfort from remembering those little scraps of humanity ,what they might have become .
They will be somewhere besides our hearts ,always loved and remembered.
Viktoria.
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Oh I am SO sorry to hear these stories of the lost babies. How very sad, the only comfort I could fall back on in such circumstances would be, 'that it was not meant to be'.
Those lost little ones will be looking down in rainbows and will never be forgotten.
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Some may find it a bit strange but I always am interested in when an ancestor was "made", 9 months (thereabouts) before they were born, well more into the dates of conception as opposed to the actual conception. for instance, my great aunty was born 27 April 1926, so would have been conceived around July/Aug 1925. My grandad was born on 25 September, so he was "made" around Christmas time.
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We were taught the way to calculate was count from the first day of menstrustion ,add seven days - no matter if that is not totally correct, then add nine calendar months ,that is the birth date.
40 weeks.
That allows for eleven months having two to three extra days over 28.
Viktoria.
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Thanks for starting this topic and on the subject of photos who are the gorgeous youngsters on your profile pics mare &
Treetotal
+ Your young ladies BillyF
& Maddy ( *I think I've asked before )
The baby in my profile is my late aunt Sylvia JONES who my nana walked home with in her arms from the hospital
It`s me! BF !! In 1964
Thanks for all the interesting anecdotes.
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Pennines....yes we had Gerrys too, my Father called them Gosunders, because it goes-under the bed. ;D During the day, they were put either side of the toilet with San Izal disinfect, then weekly were scrubbed with carbolic soap.
Carol
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Some may find it a bit strange but I always am interested in when an ancestor was "made", 9 months (thereabouts) before they were born, well more into the dates of conception as opposed to the actual conception. for instance, my great aunty was born 27 April 1926, so would have been conceived around July/Aug 1925. My grandad was born on 25 September, so he was "made" around Christmas time.
Funny I was thinking about this as I was reading earlier posts, as I was born on September 25th too! But as Viktoria pointed out, the expected birthdate is calculated from the last period and carried forward 9 months. So I think New Year’s Eve was more likely!
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Carol - I am so pleased to hear that I was not the only person to have these 'facilities' in the family when I was a child.
However, in my head, I had always spelt them as Jerry and Guzunder - whereas you spell them Gerry and Gusunder. Mind you, we never got those words in a spelling test at school did we - so how do we know how they were spelt!!
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For some reason, in our house my mother called them "chambers", presumably short for chamber pot. I wonder if that is what they were called by the staff in the "big house" where she worked as a girl?
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Certainly that sounds 'posh' Top-of-the-hill!!
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Carol - I am so pleased to hear that I was not the only person to have these 'facilities' in the family when I was a child.
However, in my head, I had always spelt them as Jerry and Guzunder - whereas you spell them Gerry and Gusunder. Mind you, we never got those words in a spelling test at school did we - so how do we know how they were spelt!!
There isn't a dictionary spelling for It, so it's just down our interpretation of the words.
It certainly beats having to go out to the yard in the night ;D
Carol
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I think we favoured ‘po’ but also ‘jerry’.
Skipping rhyme:
‘Eenie, meenie, miney mo
Put the baby on the po’
I won’t continue it … ;)
*there might be an ‘e’ on the end of ‘mo’ etc
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Heywood - you are right! I had forgotten about 'po'!
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Oh yes, Po.... short for potty!! ;D
Carol
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You were talking about outside lavatories previously. Ours was a tippler toilet like most.
The young woman next door married and her husband came to live with her family. He was a lovely man and enjoyed singing.
You always knew when he was using the lavatory as you would be serenaded with Mario Lanza songs and similar :)
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What was a Tippler toilet?
Carol
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My brothers and I were born in hospital in Quebec in the 1940's and 50's. My oldest brother was born in the "old" hospital in town where the nursing staff were French Canadian Catholic nuns. Right after he was born the nuns wanted to baptize him (RC) but my Anglican mother said oh no, you're not! By the time my other brother and I came along, the new hospital had been built and there was no such confusion (or she had made it clear beforehand, no RC baptism!).
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What was a Tippler toilet?
Carol
Sorry, Carol. It had nothing to do with my story but it was the old style that didn’t have a flush. There was some sort of ‘bucket’ contraption as part of the sewerage system and when it filled with waste water, it would then ‘tip up’ and get rid of whatever was there.
We all had our own toilet in our own back yards and our neighbour would serenade us with his ‘songs from the shows’.
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Oh, I see, we had a flushing toilet with a water cistern which had a clunky metal chain.
I've learned something today :D
Carol
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There was still a tippler toilet in the next door house’s yard ,in the house we first lived in here in Ramsbottom.The owners explained it was connected with the waste water from the bath.
The “ receptacle “ was sort of balanced , when bathwater ran down a pipe it emotird into the tippler,which was in a little shed in the yard ,which then literally tipped over and the contents were down in the main sewer.
So it was all washed out with hot soapy bath water.
What a wonderful way to conserve water and not waste drinking water .
Our neighbours did not use it ,so a heavy board with a stone on it was placed over the hole as a precaution ,in case rats got into the sewer system .
Houses,
You can still see on the external yard walls of old houses where the hole in the wall has been blocked up , very old ones had an iron door set into the yard wall ,so the toilets could be emptied from the narrow rear street.
Dolly Varden ,a character from Dickens , not sure why those old loos were named after after her
Viktoria.
“ Dolly Vardens “ I believe they were nicknamed could be emptied by the ‘ night soil men “ or “ the midden men”in Victorian days when they were first installed.
They were not tipplers.
Ramsbottom Heritage Society have a full description on line with diagrams of tippler toilets .
The ones depicted were flushed from the kitchen sink ,but the neighbours who still had one ( no longer used!) said the bath water had flushed theirs but that night have been a later adaption .
Viktoria.
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With topic turning to potty talk, thankfully not potty mouth :P I'll be taking the Grindley ware chamber pot to our next house, ornamental use only for donkeys years ;) unfortunately can't take the Royal Doulton toilet pan and we'll probably have some much more modern conveniences.
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"potty talk"
For some reason, it is a favorite, perennial topic of English RootsChatters.
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Give over!
Months have gone by with no mention ,and anyway it has all been in the best possible taste.
I am sure even you Erato ,have to avail yourself of “ conveniences “ from time to time , if not you ought to see a Doctor .
Jolly up a bit !
Viktoria.
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I think you are missing Erato's point Victoria, it was a subtle reference to inane chatter. Enough said.
Carol
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"potty talk"
For some reason, it is a favorite, perennial topic of English RootsChatters.
This is what chat "does" anywhere in the world. One thing leads to another and the topic gets changed from one thing to another.
I`ve loved reading all the different stories. Thanks folks.
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Me too BillyF -- it's brought back memories - such as gloves or mittens being tied on a long piece of string - the string going up one arm, across your back and down the other arm -- with the gloves/mittens dangling from the bottom of your sleeves, so that you didn't lose them. (That's the gloves - not the sleeves!)
In addition - we used to put a 'blower' up when the fire was first lit, seemingly to make it light properly AND newspaper would block any gaps around the side. How dangerous was that!!
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We were too poor to have a blower! ::)A metal sheet of galvanised tin ,with a handle . Doing the job a pair of bellows would do.
We were too poor to have this as well, notwithstanding both Grandfathers were blacksmiths .
The coal shovel balanced in front of the grate ,a big sheet of newspaper in front and the chimney would “draw” ie suck air up the reduced space ,that would make the coals burn brighter , and hey presto a glowing fire.
BUT—— very dangerous if you forgot , the hearth rug would be burnt etc!
That was our very dangerous substitute !
We did see life but it was a miracle we saw as much as we did for as long as we did , what with the blower, drying our waist length hair over the gas stove ,( We read that in “The Water Gypsies” ,H,E,Bates I think, about bargees.)etc!
Viktoria.
P.S. I did all that without mention of jerries, guzzunders, thunder boxes, potties.Conveniences, smallest rooms, loos, chambers, toilets etc.
I shall console myself with just checking that my low level, coupled ,soft close ——- ——- is still in situ!
Viktoria.
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I can see my mother "now", holding a sheet of newpaper to the fire to make it draw.
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An article about the birth of the NHS gave the information that women would pay around £10 per week for a hospital birth.
I know that my mother was in the home for 2 weeks so possibly paid what would have been a hefty sum for my parents. My father was a military policeman in the SIB stationed in India until 1946, my mother had been a book-keeper at the local steelworks.