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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: Davedrave on Saturday 18 February 23 19:43 GMT (UK)
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An Ann Sayers was buried at Chelmsford St Mary in 1812. I’d be grateful if anyone with access to the register image could let me know whether it contains any more information than I can see in the transcript, ie maybe an age or “wife of”.
Thanks,
Dave :)
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Complete record: SAYERS Ann - Adult - Buried 12 April 1812
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Thank you. At least I know now that this burial is a possibility.
Dave :)
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Is this Ann, Wife of John?
The couple baptising children Chelmsford 1797-1809?
If she has her last child 1809 a 1812 burial is possible.
Was John was buried 16 Aug 1853 age 85, abode King Street.
(1768)
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Chelmsford Overseers Accounts, July 1814
Sayers include
Jno + 4 Ch (5 persons), suggesting that Jno was widowed?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSL4-1RL
From a lucky dip
Chelmsford parish chest material, 1520-1863
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/617778
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Possible?
2 July 1792, Chelmsford
John Sayer + Ann Tabor (Ann of Barling, says FreeReg)
The couple baptising children Chelmsford 1797-1809?
Sayers baptisms
William, 7 April 1797
Samuel, 12 March 1800
+ same day
James, born 19 Dec 1798
Eliza, 24 Oct 1804
Mary, 23 July 1809 (Baddow Lane Independent)
Perhaps they were a bit slow getting their children baptized :-\
There may be more?
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They may have been slow as on Census William is born c 1792-1796 (if the right William)
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Chelmsford Overseers Accounts, July 1814
Sayers include
Jno + 4 Ch (5 persons), suggesting that Jno was widowed?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSL4-1RL
From a lucky dip
Chelmsford parish chest material, 1520-1863
https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/617778
Thanks for these. I think to some extent it confuses things though, because the same John (?) with with wife Ann certainly had a son Charles and daughter Ann (no baptism for either) and a son John too (?).
Dave :)
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Is this Ann, Wife of John?
The couple baptising children Chelmsford 1797-1809?
If she has her last child 1809 a 1812 burial is possible.
Was John was buried 16 Aug 1853 age 85, abode King Street.
(1768)
I don’t know whether there was just one couple John and Ann Sayers having children in Chelmsford at this time. In 1841 John Sayers, shoemaker (“65”) was in Chelmsford with son Charles, who died in 1843 and was described as his “eldest” son. In 1851 John N Sayers was in London with daughter Ann. He was a bootmaker aged 83, so fits with the John who died in Chelmsford in 1853. He was living in King Street and the informant was a neighbour of a younger John Sayers, a shoemaker, also living in King Street. (There are no baptisms for Charles, Ann or John.)
The younger John Sayers who was living near John N Sayers was certainly the brother of William (but was it the William who was baptised in 1797?). William, born about 1792-1794, married in 1815 and a witness was Ann Sayers (the same Ann who was the daughter of John N Sayers?).
William Sayers had children baptised Charles and Eliza and his brother had children baptised Mary and Ann, maybe significant or not.
Dave ???
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Hi
I don't think the overseers would count older children who weren't still dependent on their father. So you need four younger ones. There is no W for wife, so Jno in that record was probably widowed.
Mary born 1809 married George Deacon, and links to the younger Ann via the 1851 census.
Getting a look at William's marriage and comparing the signature of witness Ann to the one who married in London might be useful (well, it wouldn't do any harm!)
Jon
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Jno Sayer and family receiving a weekly casual allowance from the Chelmsford overseers from 22 Feb 1812
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSLH-DD8
Further entries for John Sayer + Children
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSLH-DKG
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Jno Sayer and family receiving a weekly casual allowance from the Chelmsford overseers from 22 Feb 1812
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSLH-DD8
Further entries for John Sayer + Children
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSLH-DKG
Many thanks Jon for this extra information. I’ll try and follow up on your suggestion re Ann’s signature. I’m not sure what age Ann was because I can’t read her age in the 1851 Census. I’ll try and find too whether any of the children had died before the 1812 record. When I ordered John N Sayers death reg I was hoping he would be living with son John. It turned out that the informant lived two doors away. Maybe John was her lodger (she was a widow). She was a retired nurse. I wonder also whether the older John was living with his son when he died and that she attended him and then informed the registrar for the family, but can’t prove it. Ann’s signature seems the best hope of documentary proof of a relationship, but the circumstantial evidence seems quite strong.
Dave :)
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Dave,
My wife has Sayers,Cramphorn and Taylor as direct-line ancestors and Sams and Raven as more distant ancestors. If you would like to compare notes please send me a Direct message.
Mike