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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: haney on Tuesday 14 February 23 21:32 GMT (UK)
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Good Morning everyone
I'm hoping to find out more on my GG Grandfather and his apprehension and order for support of his illegitimate child:-
1) Alexander Charles apprehended b warrant ( having neglected to appear in answer to a summons) for having unlawfully refuse to contribute towards the support of a male illegitimate child of which he is the father.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/page/1488138
The Sydney Morning Herald Wednesday, May 23 1860
2) Alexander Charles, Stonemason o the Glebe, was ordered to pay 15s a week for 6 months, in support of his illegitimate child
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/page/5982982#
I am now hoping to find out more about where he was living "THE GLEBE"
Also is there any way of finding details of the warrant/summons/court appearance.
I couldn't find any child born to Alexander under his surname CHARLES!!! but perhaps seeing as he was illegitimate was registered under the mothers name
Did the mother (unknown) go to the court/police station. How can more be found out on this?? Kindest regards Dianna
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Unfortunately I can't see any Alexander CHARLES in the Sydney Sands Directory for 1858 or 1861.
https://archives.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/nodes/view/495003
"The Glebe" is the area now known as the suburb of Glebe, just west of the City.
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I assume you've seen this obituary:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/248791200 (1st column, middle)
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Hi thank you. I do have his obituary here in my hand LOL. I am working from this to try and determine what other records can be found on him.
He was in Parramatta from at least 1864 when his first child was born HELEN CHARLES. He purchase land in Parramatta in 1870 so had himself established.
Thanks for your help once again! I thought that may have been "Glebe" Broadway area.
Good you looked in the Sands directory. I didn't think to do that. Maybe he wasn't there very long.
He married Eliza GAVIN in St. Mary's in 1863. Don't know if she knew about the other child. Hmmm. Dianna
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Hi,
It was likely that the NSW Police Gazette at that time would have had details about the arrest warrant.
Gerry
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I don't know whether there may be anything of interest in his deceased estate:
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/primo-explore/fulldisplay?context=L&vid=61SRA&lang=en_US&docid=INDEX1169811
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"Glebe" is in the Broadway area.
I live 10k from there :)
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I lived in Glebe for many years too, back when I was first married. :D (Sorry for getting a bit off topic Haney!)
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SMH 26th March 1952 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/18260514
BROWN. Alexander Charles.— March 25, 1952 (late of Anthony Horderns) of Denison Road Lewisham loved father of Phillip, Jean (Mrs Roberts) Jessie (Mrs Palmer), Florrie (Mrs Anthony), Alexander, Ernest and Hilda (Mrs Jones) aged 92 years At rest
Funeral notice (same page)
BROWN .-The Relatives and Friends of the Family of the late ALEXANDER CHARLES BROWN are Invited to attend his Funeral to leave Holy Trinity Church Dulwich Hill Tomorrow (Thursday) Morning after a service commencing at 9:15 o’clock for Hie Church of England Cemetery Woronora.
Woronora Memorial Park
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/168063585/alexander-charles-brown
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/168338497/eliza_marion-brown
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/220011347
RE will of ALEXANDER CHARLES BROWN, late of 59 Denison-road, Lewisham, retired traffic manager, deceased.— Probate granted by Supreme Court of New South Wales on 11th September, 1952.—Pursuant to the Wills, Probate and Administration Act, 1898-1940, Testator's Family Maintenance and Guardianship of Infants Act, 1916-1938, and Trustee Act, 1925-1940, Perpetual Trustee Company (Limited), the executor of the will of the said Alexander Charles Brown, who died on 25th March, 1952, hereby gives notice that creditors and others having any claim against or to the estate of the said deceased are required to send particulars…
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/ADLIB_RNSW113460485
NRS-13660-32-10711-Series 4_394370 | Alexander Charles Brown (or Alexander Brown) - Date of Death 25/03/1952, Granted on 11/09/1952
SMH 2nd Dec 1937 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17436419
IN THE SUPREME COURT OF NEW SOUTH WALES-Probate Jurisdiction-In the Will and Codicil of ELIZA MARION YOUNG (commonly known as Eliza Marion Brown) late of No 59 Dennison Road Lewisham near Sydney In the State of New South Wales Married Woman deceased-Application will be made after fourteen days from the publication hereof that Probate of the last Will and Testament… of the abovenamed deceased may be granted to ALEXANDER CHARLES YOUNG (commonly known as Alexander Charles Brown) and PHILLIP ARCHIBALD YOUNG (commonly known as Phillip Archibald Brown) the Executors named In the said Will and all notices may he served at the undermentioned address. All Creditors in the Estate of the deceased are hereby required to send in particulars…
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/ADLIB_RNSW110689385
NRS-13660-17-3111-Series 4_227327 | Eliza Marion Young (or Brown) - Date of Death 14/11/1937, Granted on 04/02/1938
Adding:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17401166
BROWN.—November 14, 1937, at her residence, 59 Denison Road, Lewisham, Eliza Marion (Lul), beloved wife of Alexander Brown and loving mother of Phillip, Jean, Jessie, Florrie, Alex.,Ernie, and Hilda, aged 75 years.
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cupoflife thanks so much for all of this. I'm reading through it now. Interesting the alias YOUNG mentioned. Great. Many thanks regards Dianna
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His will is attached to Ancestry trees and, after any debts, he left everything to his wife.
Some descendants have attached the article about his illegitimate child but the child does not appear to be recorded on Ancestry trees (note: there are 45 Ancestry trees and I only checked a small sample).
His death certificate is also attached to Ancestry trees and the oldest child recorded is Helen aged 21 (i.e. Ellen Charles born 1865) so the illegitimate child is not recorded (probably not surprising!).
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Hi Christine yes a few of us have the article re the maintence attached to our trees but we never thought that we would actually find this boy.
I wouldn't have expected any mention of our Alexander's illegitimate son but so sad the little boy was abandoned (possibly) I we don't know what happened to his mother Margaret Young.
I just received the marriage of Alexander Brown and Eliza Margetts (or Margates).
MARRIAGE TRANSCRIPT
00503
28TH MARCH 1881, WILLIAM STREET, SYDNEY, PRESBYTERIAN
GROOM ALEXANDER BROWN
BACHELOR
BORN NSW
OCCUPATION SADDLER
21 USUAL RESIDENCE SYDNEY
PARENTS NOT LISTED
BRIDE ELIZA MARGETTS
SPINSTER
BORN NSW
OCCUPATION NOT LISTED
AGE 19
SYDNEY
PARENTS NOT LISTED
NOTE WITNESS MARIA JUDER, ALFRED WARNER
MINISTER JAMES FULLERTON L.L.D
COMMENTS MRS MARIA JUDER, GUARDIAN OF THE BRIDE GAVE CONSENT TO THE MARRIAGE, AGE BIRTHPLACE AND PARENTS NAMES OBTAINED FROM CHURCH REGISTER NO 411, 22.6.1915
So this is where I am with the story!! Not sure who this Guardian and Witness is either.
Many thanks Dianna
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Hi Dianna,
Difficult to find the child. Do you know anything more about Margaret Young? Where did you find her name? I found the following birth record, no father recorded, which is a possibility:
Name Alexander Young
Birth Date 1860
Birth Place New South Wales
Registration Year 1860
Registration Place Newtown, New South Wales, Australia
Mother Margaret
Registration Number 2770
Christine
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HI Christine
We only know that Margaret YOUNG was born in Scotland, Alexander born 8th March 1860, South Sydney. Margaret was 24 lived in South Sydney and the witness was a Mrs BROWN to the birth.
Birth registered 19 April 1860.
The Sydney Morning Herald Wednesday, May 23 1860 Maintenance notice
So between the notices in the paper re Alexander Charles the stonemason from the Glebe in trouble for not wanting to pay maintenance and all the DNA matches we are finding to the descendants of Alexander BROWN aka YOUNG we've put two and two toghether.
Hopefully some of the descendants of Alexander BROWN will respond and we can hopefully find out more!
I don't think anyone has that notice in the paper from the BROWN'S they may all get a surprise if/when they find out about us Charles's. Many thanks for your time. Regards Dianna
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Good Morning all
Today I am trying to get a timeline together for Mr. Alexander BROWN.
I have looked at the NAA site, nothing there and now I am tyring to find Alexander on the electoral rolls from??. His wife is listed as living at 59 Dennison Road in 1937 and he is at 59 Dennison Road 1952 as well.
Not sure I understand the Anthony Hordens reference in bracket on his death notice?? He is also listed as a Retired Traffic manager????
Also he was a Saddler on his marriage in 1881
Also the Sands directory may prove usefull?? I can contact the Sydney of City archives for those, they may look for me.
Any help very much appreciated. Kindest regards Diann
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I'm not on a computer today so can't do a look up, but the Sydney Sands Directory is available to look at for free on the City of Sydney Archives website. :)
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Hi maddys I will give it a go. See how my patience is. LOL Thanks Dianna
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Hi Dianna,
You're probably aware of this but just in case not:
https://www.sydneyaldermen.com.au/alderman/alexander-brown/
Christine
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WOW No Way!!!! I have not seen is and SO happy you sent it. Fantastic. Not bad for an orphan! If he was one. I'm just looking at the link again. Wonderful. Thanks so much. Regards Dianna
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I've got my computer back. :)
Shame it's such a bad photo - photo of him here in 1929:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/16563342
I wonder if the SMH might have the original somewhere?
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Hi thanks for that. It is a shame you can't really see anyone can you!! Can't believe he was an Alderman and Mayor. Truly amazing. Many thanks Dianna
Also I contacted the City of Sydney archives as I wanted to ask them what his occupation meant and could they possibly clarify the reference to Anthony Hordens on his notice.
That's a head scratcher. Regards Dianna
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I suspect that it means he was working at Anthony Hordens at some time.
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That's what I thought! LOL Hope the archives has an answer. There is actually an Anthony Hordens facebook page. Dianna
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Good question re the SMH keeping copies of negatives etc. You would think that they have archives. Dianna
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HI
Just doing a little more digging and came up with:-
1903 Darlington Polling Place
https://www.ihr.com.au/secure/docimages/nswer1903/nswer1903_09614.gif
ALEXANDER BROWN, clerk, 20 Darlington Rd Darlington
also at this address are Phillip a clerk also and Eliza.
So I know he is/was a Clerk at some stage and this MAY fit in with him possibly working at Anthony Hordens!!
From the Sands Sydney Directory 1905 Alexander is still at 20 Darlington Rd Darlington
From the 1910 Sands Alphabetical directory there are two possibles
Alexander BROWN at 180 Rose St. Darlington AND
Alexander BROWN at 10 Victoria St LEWISHAM.
That's as far as I got to add to the timeline.
I hope everyone has a peaceful, safe and very Happy Easter. Kindest regards Dianna