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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Letsy on Sunday 12 February 23 13:41 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone have Frank Ernest Prior in their tree? He was born 3 August 1909 at the General Lying-in Hospital, York Road, Lambeth. His parents were Alfred Ernest Prior and Sarah Jones (full name Sarah Elizabeth Phyllis Ann). He married Annie Schuts in 1939 and died in the Haringey registration district in 1974.
The reason for my enquiry is to find any information about his father who, on his marriage certificate 21 January 1906, gave his father’s name as Frank Prior deceased boot maker. Assuming Alfred Ernest was telling the truth this makes him my paternal grand father’s brother who vanishes from the records in 1891. The story was that Alfred (known as Ernest) was in the regular army, went to France with the BEF, was sent back to assist with training Kitchener’s new army, missed the action, deserted, re-enlisted under an assumed name and came through the war without a scratch!
On FindMyPast there are records for an Alfred Prior born Marylebone, marrying Sarah Jones 21 January 1906 at St John’s Hammersmith. He gives his next of kin as a cousin Mr or Mrs, it’s not clear, Tilbury of Silver Town. I know of no marriage between a Tilbury and any Priors in my tree.
Any help welcomed.
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Let's start off with 1881 census for Alfred Ernest with father Frank.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK65-GZV3
John
added, birth of Alfred and his brother Albert as per 1881 census.
PRIOR, ALBERT LEONARD mmn EMERY
GRO Reference: 1874 S Quarter in MARYLEBONE Volume 01A Page 469
PRIOR, ALFRED ERNEST mmn EMERY
GRO Reference: 1876 J Quarter in MARYLEBONE Volume 01A Page 481
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Alfred Ernest's baptism records a date of birth 12th April 1876.
John
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Frank Prior snr died 29th August 1890 Middlesex Hospital, probate record names wife as Emma Jane.
Death ref
PRIOR, FRANK aged 44
GRO Reference: 1890 S Quarter in MARYLEBONE Volume 01A Page 372
John
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Quote
On FindMyPast there are records for an Alfred Prior born Marylebone, marrying Sarah Jones 21 January 1906 at St John’s Hammersmith.
They did marry on that date with Alfred recording his father as Frank Prior deceased occupation Boot Maker..
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Thank you. I should have made clear that I have all the available information. What I am trying to establish is contact with any descendants of Frank Ernest Prior in the hope that they may know what happened to Frank’s father.
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Assuming Alfred Ernest was telling the truth this makes him my paternal grand father’s brother who vanishes from the records in 1891.
The story was that Alfred (known as Ernest) was in the regular army, went to France with the BEF, was sent back to assist with training Kitchener’s new army, missed the action, deserted, re-enlisted under an assumed name and came through the war without a scratch!
Do you have any idea which Regiment he served with?
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No except the Alfred Prior whose service record is on FindMyPast was in the Hampshire Regiment.
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Letsy, after Alfred seems to have gone awol after his marriage in 1906, his wife Sarah remarries in 1916. Have you her marriage cert to Tom Threlkeld and does it record her as a widow?
John
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I’m waiting for that marriage certificate. It should have been delivered over a week ago. I’ve notified the GRO and hope they’ll send another copy.
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On FindMyPast there are records for an Alfred Prior born Marylebone, marrying Sarah Jones 21 January 1906 at St John’s Hammersmith. He gives his next of kin as a cousin Mr or Mrs, it’s not clear, Tilbury of Silver Town. I know of no marriage between a Tilbury and any Priors in my tree.
Could you give a link to that record please
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rosie, this is on FindMyPast but I cannot view.
Prior
Alfred
1878
—
1896
British Army Service Records
Marylebone, London, Middlesex, England
and this on An*
ame: Alfred Prior
Enlistment Age: 18
Birth Date: abt 1878
Birth Place: Meryborne Middlesex
Enlistment Year: 1896
Regiment: Hampshire Regt
Regimental Number: 4948
Attestation Paper: Yes
John
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https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBM%2FWO97%2F5723%2F006%2F001&parentid=GBM%2FWO97%2F5723%2F1001649
This is the link. Hope it works!
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There's an Albert Ernest Prior aged 39 who joins the Freemasons in November 1916. Residence Farnborough, occupation relieving officer
Would fit with an army connection
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Not mine I’m regret to say. FranK Ernest’s father was Alfred Ernest.
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This may not be your man at all, but if it is, they were in Dorset at some point.
Southern Times and Dorset County Herald 10 April 1909
I, Sarah Prior, 1, Victoria terrace Weymouth hereby give Notice, - That I WILL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE for any DEBTS incurred by my Husband, ALFRED ERNEST PRIOR, on or after this Date
(signed) SARAH PRIOR
Dated April 8th, 1909
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Thank you very much. Sarah registered her son’s birth in the August so this may be the same Alfred Ernest but what they’d be doing in Weymouth I cannot imagine!
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There's an Albert Ernest Prior aged 39 who joins the Freemasons in November 1916. Residence Farnborough, occupation relieving officer
Would fit with an army connection
Not mine I’m regret to say. FranK Ernest’s father was Alfred Ernest.
My typing error - the entry is for Alfred Ernest, not Albert
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I think this could be AEP the relieving officer in 1911, with wife Alice Maud Mary
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWQY-3HN
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rosie, this is on FindMyPast but I cannot view.
Prior
Alfred
1878
—
1896
British Army Service Records
Marylebone, London, Middlesex, England
and this on An*
ame: Alfred Prior
Enlistment Age: 18
Birth Date: abt 1878
Birth Place: Meryborne Middlesex
Enlistment Year: 1896
Regiment: Hampshire Regt
Regimental Number: 4948
Attestation Paper: Yes
John
Thank you John :)
I was looking for a marriage record :-\. ;D
Quote from: Letsy on Yesterday at 13:41
On FindMyPast there are records for an Alfred Prior born Marylebone, marrying Sarah Jones 21 January 1906 at St John’s Hammersmith. He gives his next of kin as a cousin Mr or Mrs, it’s not clear, Tilbury of Silver Town. I know of no marriage between a Tilbury and any Priors in my tree.
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Alfred the Relieving Officer was born in Odiham, Hants.
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He's not your man, sadly.
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Indeed. The hunt continues!
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I'm fairly sure the Tilbury thing is a red herring. The image of the register entry is on Ancestry. Alfred lists his father Frank, deceased. There's no mention of Tilburys anywhere in the entry for his marriage. There's no other next of kin entry on a register like this anyway, so not sure where the "He gives his next of kin as a cousin Mr or Mrs, it’s not clear, Tilbury of Silver Town" comes from.
However, the previous marriage in the register is between Harry Handley and Amy Tilbury
I think someone has mixed the two separate marriages entries up
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I'm fairly sure the Tilbury thing is a red herring. The image of the register entry is on Ancestry. Alfred lists his father Frank, deceased. There's no mention of Tilburys anywhere in the entry for his marriage. There's no other next of kin entry on a register like this anyway, so not sure where the "He gives his next of kin as a cousin Mr or Mrs, it’s not clear, Tilbury of Silver Town" comes from.
I assumed this was from his military pension record.
rosie, this is on FindMyPast but I cannot view.
Prior
Alfred
1878
—
1896
British Army Service Records
Marylebone, London, Middlesex, England
and this on An*
Name: Alfred Prior
Enlistment Age: 18
Birth Date: abt 1878
Birth Place: Meryborne Middlesex
Enlistment Year: 1896
Regiment: Hampshire Regt
Regimental Number: 4948
Attestation Paper: Yes
John
Debra :)
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He had also previously deserted from the Royal Navy.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6787175
Debra :)
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The Tilbury reference is on his attestation papers. Yes I noticed the marriage of Amy Tilbury on the same page as Alfred Ernest’s. Interestingly both grooms are postmen.
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Letsy, I believe you have FindmyPast?
If you search Alfred Ernest Prior, with keyword Postman (in advanced search), there is an index entry for 1904 for postman records. However, I keep getting a "500 error". I don't even know if it is the right fellow, but it might be something? Sorry I can't direct link.... it goes right to the error screen.
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Not sure if you have this
Record set Berkshire Baptisms Index
Frank Ernest Prior
Birth 03 Aug 1909
Baptism 12 Sep 1909
Father occupation Postman
Residence Parsons Green
Denomination Anglican
Place Sunningdale
Mother Sarah
Father Albert Ernest
Document type Parish records
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A possible sister of Frank Ernest?
PRIOR, ALICE ELLEN CONSTANCE JONES
GRO Reference: 1907 D Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 180
She died in 1908. I was hoping to find a baptism, but no luck so far.
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Frank Ernest went to Australia in 1927, aged 17 no occupation, and returned in 1931 as a radio salesman. He was using the surname PRIOR-THRE(L)KELD. He is with his mother and step father on electoral rolls after he returned but he is not with them in 1921. Do you know where he was?
Debra :)
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There were 29 Dreadnought boys on the Barrabool in 1927 and it looks like Frank was amongst them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreadnought_scheme
Debra :)
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Thank you all for your help and suggestions.
I have a PDF of Alice Ellen Constance’s birth certificate and she certainly was Frank’s sister. I am currently waiting for her death certificate.
I have searched the 1921 census for Frank but so far failed to find him. His mother and stepfather are visiting a family named Wagstaff in Leigh on Sea. The stepfather is a wireless inspector working for Marconi.
Is there a link to the entry for Frank on the Barrabol?
Reverting to an earlier post I have reported the error message to FindMyPast.
From a trawl through the GRO indexes I have established that Frank Ernest had a son Melvyn in 1940 and a daughter Pamela in 1946 who may well be still alive. Do these names ring any bells?
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Longshot for 1921? :-\
Free index has a Frank Ernest Priss, born 1909, Catford, London, in Margate St John the Baptist, Kent. Father dead, mother alive?
Don't have access, and don't know who it is. With other boys.
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I was wondering if he might be at school somewhere, I think that is probably him.
Debra :)
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Links to Frank on the Barrabool from Ancestry
Departing
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01s3v/
Returning
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01s3w/
If you are using FindMyPast, just search for - Prior-Threlkeld, Frank for the departure, but I don't think they have the inbound passenger lists.
Debra :)
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Dundee,
Brilliant detective work! It has to be him. The surname is clearly Prior mistranscribed as Priss. His birthplace is wrong, it should be Lambeth but then who knows what his mother told the school. From photos on line Margate College looks pretty impressive - I wonder who was paying the fees?
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I looked and failed, it was jonw65 who found him.
Debra :)
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Update. The Threlkeld/Prior marriage certificate has finally arrived - the bride gives her status as widow.
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The Tilbury reference is on his attestation papers. Yes I noticed the marriage of Amy Tilbury on the same page as Alfred Ernest’s. Interestingly both grooms are postmen.
Ok - don't have access to those papers and the opening post read to me as if the Tilbury info was part of marriage documentation
I've looked at Amy Tilbury's family and can;t find any connection. Her mother's maiden name was Long, so doesn't look like she's a first cousin. Her two brothers are in Hammersmith in 1911 and seem to stay in that area. A Silver Town connection's eluding me at the moment
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Letsy, after Alfred seems to have gone awol after his marriage in 1906, his wife Sarah remarries in 1916. Have you her marriage cert to Tom Threlkeld and does it record her as a widow?
John
Update. The Threlkeld/Prior marriage certificate has finally arrived - the bride gives her status as widow.
Just in case anyone else is looking married
Dec 1916 Lewisham 1d 2009
George Gertrude E Parker
Parker Percy J George
Prior Phyllis S E Threlkeld
Threlkeld Tom G Prior
her death
Sarah Elizabeth Phyllis Ann Threlkeld age 72
Date of death 15 Sep 1960
Cemetery Oulton
Record set Norfolk, Churchyard Graves And Memorial Transcriptions
Added
I have searched the 1921 census for Frank but so far failed to find him.
His mother and stepfather are visiting a family named Wagstaff in Leigh on Sea.
The stepfather is a wireless inspector working for Marconi
See details from jonw65 #33 for details of Frank 1921
Southend on Sea, Essex
Tom Gordon Threlkeld 1888 Newcastle on Tyne, Northumberland
Phillis Elizabeth Sarah Mary Anne Threlkeld 1888 Hammersmith, London
and 1939 Gipping R.D., Suffolk
Tom G Threlkeld 1888
Phyllis E Threlkeld 1888
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Letsey is this Frank and his mother Sarah on 1911 census?
Says she is married 5 years 2 children 1 living 1 died
47 Elizabeth St S E, St Mary Newington, London & Surrey
Sarah SMITH Widow 1872 Chelsea
Carrie Smith Daughter 1898 Shepherds Bush
Edward Smith Son 1896 Apprentice tailor Hammersmith
Sarah PRIOR Daughter Married 1888 Hammersmith Waitress restaurtant
Frank PRIOR Grandson 1910 Lambeth
Plus 1 boarder
S Prior signs the declaration
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Letsy, I believe you have FindmyPast?
If you search Alfred Ernest Prior, with keyword Postman (in advanced search), there is an index entry for 1904 for postman records. However, I keep getting a "500 error". I don't even know if it is the right fellow, but it might be something? Sorry I can't direct link.... it goes right to the error screen.
There’s also this record in Scotland, Edinburgh Gazette 1797-2018 - don’t know if it relates to your AEP
Post office:- postman or Porter, London Alfred Ernest Prior
Issue date 07 Oct 1904 Issue number 11661
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Ladyhawk,
Yes it is. The problem is the absence of Alfred Ernest for whom there are two possibilities either he dodged the enumerator or had rejoined the army, possibly under an assumed name, having deserted his wife and child.
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Update.
The Threlkeld/Prior marriage certificate has finally arrived - the bride gives her status as widow.
If Alfred had died, could this be a possibility for his death?
Mar 1913 Pryor Alfred age 38 Kensington 1a 251
The problem is the absence of Alfred Ernest for whom there are two possibilities either he dodged the enumerator or had rejoined the army, possibly under an assumed name, having deserted his wife and child.
A long shot as it’s not an exact match and only initials given
1911c London County Asylum Bexley, Dartford, Kent
A E P male Age 33
Relationship to head Patient
Marital status Single
Occupation Potman
Birth place London Shoreditch
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Unlikely. My father said that his Uncle Ernest was in the BEF and died sometime after the war.