RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Shropshire => Topic started by: Neill Patterson on Friday 10 February 23 14:04 GMT (UK)
-
Bridgnorth Town Address
Please can anyone tell me or show on a map where 14 Newtown, Bridgnorth is - the home of William Henry Carter, School Master, (1826-1906) on the 1881 Census. I have looked at a 25 inch map of Bridgnorth (which I can access) and cannot find this street address.
By 1891 William Carter had moved to Oldbury Terrace and named his part 'The Cedars'. I can see this readily.
Many thanks,
Neill.
-
"New Town" appears to be a former or alternative name of Railway Street. The 1881 census tells us the Woodman Inn was at number 15 New Town. In later censuses it's listed at 15 Railway Street.
This is an 1882 town plan and it was already Railway Street by then: https://maps.nls.uk/view/229405662
-
Thank you very much. That was very helpful. I also note that William's daughter, Lucy Bottwood Carter was an Innkeeper at this same time - perhaps on this very street!
Again, many thanks.
-
I also note that William's daughter, Lucy Bottwood Carter was an Innkeeper at this same time
That looks like it has been partially erased - entered in error perhaps?
-
The Wellington Journal of 23 April 1881 has a lengthy item (page 7 final column) reporting on the presentation to Mr & Mrs Carter of a memento of their long and faithful service as teachers of the Bridgnorth St Mary's schools. Also to Miss Lucy Carter, formerly an assistant teacher.
-
New Town, Bridgnorth is the former name of an area of Bridgnorth. You will not find it on a modern map. The main part is now called Railway Street but it also included the southern area that is now Hollybush Road.
I would not have expected to find a School Master in what were small ‘workmen’ cottages in Railway Street. However, No.14 seems to be the exception. Still there today named ‘Vine Cottage’, No.14 is a large three storey house just to the West of Railway Street with pedestrian access only, half way down Railway Street. It may not apply but do remember that properties in Bridgnorth have been renumbered several times over time.
Using Google Street View, No.14 is visible high up from the junction of Railway Street and Hollybush Road. I also have several old photographs of the house.
On a more general note. In my extensive collection of Bridgnorth records, I have many records that mention that large CARTER family, including mention of the parent’s deaths and funeral details in the local newspaper. Also burial details of some of their children in the local cemetery, including photographs of their grave plots if you wish. My collection includes over 50 photographs of St Mary’s school children and teachers from 1900 onwards. Unfortunately your William CARTER, Head Master isn’t on any of them. I do have a photograph of St Mary’s school prior to demolition.
Gwynne
-
Still there today named ‘Vine Cottage’, No.14 is a large three storey house just to the West of Railway Street with pedestrian access only, half way down Railway Street.
The white house next to No 14's gate is still called "The Woodman"
-
Vine Cottage, the three storey house, top centre.
The white painted gable end of the Woodman inn is visible.
Gwynne
-
I am hugely grateful for the information so far provided. I would add the following. On the 1861 and 1871 Census details William Carter and family are living at 1 Spital Street, the current Hospital Street. I thought they were living at the current Vine Cottage presently for sale by Rightmove, a white painted roadside property of reasonable size. This is in contradiction to the property on Railway Street shown in the photo. I claim to be right in neither case! There is a 1916 family reference that they did live in a Vine Cottage. But which?
William Carter has many references in the newspapers around 1898-1998 to being a Master/Proprietor of the Commercial and Preparatory School, Bank Street. He advertises for custom on a termly basis, Just what this school is I do not know.
I greatly appreciate all thoughts and contributions on these matters. I am open to all!
-
Hi Neil,
You know for a fact that on the 1881 census, your CARTER family were at No.14 New Town. That would now be ‘Vine Cottage’ Railway Street.
The other ‘Vine Cottage’ presently for sale is No.1 Stourbridge Road, Bridgnorth. That’s the other side of the river.
I firmly believe that the house at No.1 Spital (now Hospital) Street (mentioned on the earlier census) would have been the Head Masters house built adjacent to St Mary’s School in 1857.
Did you know the family were also living on Bernard’s Hill (was Barnet’s Hill) in 1856 ?
Gwynne
-
Dear Gwynne,
I readily accede to your thoughts on this. No, I didn't know where the family was in 1856. I'll have to look that up. I don't suppose there is a photo of the school master's house adjacent to the school? And the school itself?
Many thanks again.
Neill.
-
Hi Neil,
Rather than keep posting individual messages, I need several days to pull together all the information about this family. Apart from thousands of records on my laptop, I’ll visit the local library to obtain details of the family mentioned in the local newspaper and visit the cemetery to check known locations for memorial headstones.
I don’t know about the Commercial and Preparatory School in Bank Street that you mention in your private message. May I ask your source? Perhaps that was after they retired from St Mary’s school ?
As you know, on the census they were at No.1 Hospital Street. That would have been St Mary’s school. That is confirmed by their entries in a 1870 Trade Directory;
William CARTER, Master. St Mary’s National School. Spital Street.
Mrs Elizabeth CARTER, Mistress. St Mary’s National School. Spital Street.
I have a long list of share holders in the Agricultural Hall that was built in Bridgnorth High Street in 1866/67. It includes William CARTER, School Master of St Mary's School who held 10 shares.
Gwynne
-
That is a brilliant and unexpected response Gwynne and Kay and I are very grateful for your help. With regard to the Commercial and Preparatory School: first I need to correct the dates to 1888 to approx. 1898. The sources were newspaper cuttings from Bridgnorth Journal 8th Sept. 1888, 23rd March 1889 and 28th April 1894. I am sure there are many others too. They reference Master William Carter C.M. with the school at Bank Street, terms on application and a further address of Oldbury Terrace. We also believe he used personalised Oldbury Terrace with the term "The Cedars" referenced on his Probate papers and his wife's obituary notice. We have photos of William and his wife Elizabeth and of several of the children. Part of the family moved to Toronto and there is a 74 page summary of the family made by Glen Carter of Toronto (now deceased). We are more than happy to share any data we have of the family. Again, many thanks, Neill
-
Does anyone have any information on William Carter's Commercial and Preparatory School, Bank Street, Bridgnorth.
Many thanks.
-
Hi Neil,
I assume you already have the christening details for all 14 children of William CARTER and Elizabeth. You will know that the family were living on Bernard’s Hill (was Barnet’s Hill) when children No.3 Mary and No.4 Kate were christened, before moving to St Mary’s School house.
Two of the children were buried in Bridgnorth Municipal cemetery in adjacent plots. Unfortunately there is no memorial headstone.
Mary Colbourne CARTER, daughter of Wm & Elizabeth, age 2, from Bernard's Hill. Buried on 28th Feb 1856. Grave No.2902 Consecrated section. Copy of page available if required.
Edith Mary CARTER, daughter of William & Elizabeth, age 12 weeks. Buried on 3rd Dec 1868. Grave No.2903 Consecrated section. Copy of page available if required.
You mentioned that William CARTER and Elizabeth were buried in nearby Oldbury churchyard.
In the year 2000 all the visible memorial headstones at Oldbury were recorded and published in a booklet. There is no headstone for William CARTER or Elizabeth.
However, a grandson is mentioned on one headstone;
“Tom only child of Thomas and Kate SHARPLES of Blackburn and grandson of W CARTER of Bridgnorth died 27 Sept 1889 aged 7 years.” Photograph attached.
William CARTER was listed in the 1863 Burgess List.
Also listed in an 1870 Trade Directory as Master of St Mary’s National School. Spital St.
Mr W Carter was on the committee of the Charitable Relief Society with specific responsibly for Oldbury Wells, Salop St and Pound St. (source = an 1886 Almanack. Copy of page is available if required)
Wm CARTER, Oldbury Terrace, Railway Street was listed as an Assistant Overseer in the Bridgnorth Union for St Mary’s Parish. (source = an 1886 Almanack. Copy of page is available if required)
William Carter, School Master. St Mary's School held 10 Shares in the Bridgnorth Agricultural Hall and Corn Exchange Company Ltd as on the 17th December 1870. (copy of Register page is available if required)
Your family are mentioned in the following issues of the local newspaper The Bridgnorth Journal. The date of publication is shown. Unfortunately the micro film reader is broken so I can’t obtain copies.
19th Oct 1895. Died in Blackburn. Kate Emma SHARPLES, wife of Thomas SHARPLES of Blackburn and the daughter of William CARTER of Bridgnorth.
2nd January 1904. Died - Elizabeth Woodhouse CARTER, age 71, wife of William CARTER of Oldbury Terrace. Funeral details given.
19th May 1906. Died - William CARTER, age 80, at Oldbury Terrace. Funeral in 26th May issue.
1st August 1908. Died in Toronto, Canada. Henry Herbert CARTER, fourth son of the Late William CARTER of The Cedars, Bridgnorth.
23rd Feb 2001. For Sale - Description of Vine Cottage. 14 Railway St, Bridgnorth.
Hope it helps,
Gwynne.
On the hill side - Vine Cottage, No.14 Railway Street.
Tom SHARPLES (damaged) gravestone in Oldbury Churchyard.
-
Dear Gwynne,
I am very grateful for all the information you have so kindly provided. The two sources from the 1886 Almanac would be appreciated. Could you tell me what paper you looked in for the funeral details of William and Elizabeth Carter since I can't see these in the Wellington or Bridgnorth paper - perhaps my ineptness! Nor can I find the sale particulars of Vine Cottage Feb 2001. I thought that last one would be easy too, but not so.
Again, I am most grateful for your support in this research.
Neill.
-
The photo of Vine Cottage was brilliant!
Neill
-
Hi Neil,
Re the newspapers. The Bridgnorth Journal is not available ‘online’ for all years. However, issues for nearly a 100 years are available on micro film in Bridgnorth Library. Many years ago, I spent thousands of hours reading every issue from 1852 to 1920. In chronological order, I recorded the name of every Bridgnorth person or interesting event and subsequently published two books. The aim is to use the books as a ‘finding’ aid and then view the micro film for any additional information. Later a third book followed covering 1972 to 2009. Those later years are available in the original printed format.
With the micro film reader being broken, I can’t presently obtain further information about those 1904 to 1908 deaths. The 2001 sales details for Vine Cottage, 14 Railway St are in printed format as photographed below.
-
Dear Gwynne,
Thank you again so much for this additional information and especially the article about Vine Cottage.
A brief mention of the Carter family’s association with Vine Cottage appears in a 1917 letter from Lilly Carter (1874-1965) to her brother George Howard Carter (1871-1959) in Toronto:
“_____ also an elderly Person well nearly 60. I know her well, bought Vine Cottage Grange where we lived. Her husband was relieving officer. Now she comes to be glad of a home. I didn’t know he earned good money, and only had one child. She has been with Ada.
Sometime George, you will have seen Ada Hughes, that lived by the Cedars. Well, she married Dick’s brother. They live near Birmingham. “
William Carter had moved to Vine Cottage by 1881 in preparation for early retirement from his job as Headmaster at St. Mary’s National School where he had been for 28 years. The link to the retirement article in the Wellington Journal 23 April 1881 was kindly provided by ShaunJ. William’s retirement may also have been strongly influenced by the suicide of his son William Henry Colbourne Carter in 1879 which may very reasonably have made him wish to find both a new family home and a new purpose in life.
The Carters were at Vine Cottage up to around 1887/8 after which the Bridgnorth paper is full over the next ten years of William Carter advertising his Commercial and Preparatory School on Bank Street each term, with applications going to Oldbury Terrace.
Canadian descendants of the Carters have said: “ ……. that William opened his own school after prodding by the local gentry who did not wish their children to attend a national school.”
After 1888, William Carter used the addresses: Oldbury Terrace; The Cedars, Oldbury Terrace; and The Cedars, Oldbury. I am presuming these are all the same house. Does anyone know exactly which property at Oldbury Terrace this might be?
-
William Henry Colbourne Carter 1851-1879
Distressing Suicide of a Bridgnorth Man – The Wellington Journal and Shrewsbury News July 5 1879
An Inquest was held Last week at the Eagle Tavern, Spring-Back, Hull, before Mr. J. J. Thorns, coroner, touching the death of Mr. William Henry Colborne Carter (son of Mr. William Carter, Hospital Street Bridgnorth) who was supposed to have committed suicide. The jury having viewed the body, the following evidence was taken Miss Alice WIggington, 99, Peel-street, Hull. identified the body as that of her brother-In-law, who was 28 years of age. He was an assistant In the Hull and East Riding College. Witness had been visiting at the house since last January. Deceased was a very studious man, and worked very hard after school hours, especially lately. He was reading up French, and proposed passing an examination. Though he never talked much he had for the last few weeks been more depressed, and had suffered from gathering in the ears, which caused great pain. Almost every evening be used to take chloroform, and lately this practice had been constant. When deceased retired to his room be generally locked himself in. During the last week the depression bad greatly increased, and deceased used to sit in the drawing room alone. On Friday he looked very ill, and was no better on Saturday. The house was infested with rats, and deceased had talked about sending for some Battle's Vermin Killer. Witness saw deceased go upstairs about seven o'clock on Saturday evening. Between seven and eight Mrs. Carter went upstairs and knocked at her husband's door, but he took no notice. A little later Mrs. Carter went again with the same result, witness saying that he would perhaps be angry If they disturbed him. About ten o'clock witness forced open the door, when they found Mr. Carter fully dressed, and lying on the bed with his face downwards. A handkerchief was lying on his face, and he was quite dead. Subsequently Dr. Gibson arrived. Sellna Knight, a little girl who lived at the house as servant, stated that at about 6.30 on Saturday evening her master said to her. "Fetch me threepennyworth of Battle's Vermin Killer". Witness went to Mr. Walton, chemist, obtained the powder, and returned with It to Mr. Carter, who was waiting in the dining-room. Mr. W. 0. Walton, chemist, Spring bank, deposed to selling the powder to the last witness. The usual entry was made in the sale of poisons book, the girl's signature being attached. There would be about 16 grain, of powder to the packet, about as much as would lie on a shilling, and the quantity of strychnine would be about two grains. Deceased had bought chloroform at witness' shop. He had frequently talked to deceased, and be believed him to be well acquainted with chemistry; indeed, when the chloroform was sold witness thought It was for some experiments. Dr. Henry Gibson said he was sent for on Saturday night, and saw deceased between and eleven. Mr. Carter had evidently just died. The muscles were very rigid, as from tetanic spasms. There was a bottle containing about an ounce of chloroform in the room. Witness made a post-mortem examination on the previous day. The brain, heart, and lungs were perfectly healthy. The stomach contained bread and butter, together with a considerable amount of blue powder, which be recognized as ' Battle's Vermin Killer'. An analysis indicated the presence of strychnine. Deceased bad Inhaled some chloroform, and he had evidently done this with his knowledge of anatomy that It would to some extent allay the tetanic spasms caused by strychnine, one grain of which was quite sufficient to kill two, if not three persons. Death was undoubtedly caused by strychnine. The jury returned a verdict to the effect that the deceased committed suicide whilst temporarily insane. Mr. W. 0. C Carter had recently obtained a higher situation at Chesterfield, for which place he was preparing to leave Hull. The body of the deceased was Interred on Wednesday week in the sacristy of Scalcostes Church, and was followed by his relations and friends, the clergy, the principal, vice-principal, and the whole of the college staff. Great sympathy Is felt in Bridgnorth for the bereaved parents of the deceased.
-
Hi Neil,
You asked “Does anyone know exactly which property at Oldbury Terrace this might be?”
On the attached modern County Council map the house at the western end of Oldbury Terrace is identified today as ‘Bendor’ (adjoining Hilly Bank lane)
I have a very poor quality photograph of an Ordnance Survey map for that same area. Although not very clear, I think the same house was called ‘The Cedars.
Gwynne
-
Hello Gwynne,
That is a great find! I am enclosing a further map which shows several trees in the garden which no doubt is why they called it The Cedars. I do wonder if the group photo of the Carters, taken in 1904, enclosed above (page 2), was taken at this property.
-
Hi Neil,
It seems the poor quality of the previous image was of my own making. I now realize I have the originals for the whole of Bridgnorth. The house of your ancestors ‘The Cedars’ in Oldbury Terrace is clearly shown below.
Also see two pages from an 1886 Almanack. Mr W Carter is shown as being on the committee of the Charitable Relief Society and as an Assistant Overseer.
Gwynne
-
Dear Gwynne,
Again, a hugely helpful contribution for which I am most grateful. Regarding the group photo of William Carter and family outside a house in 1904, I looked up Google maps for this end house now known as 'Bendor' on Hilly Bank Lane and I can just see that Bendor has exactly the same arched stonework around the lane side door and the same brick work over the windows. Since there are two windows on the modern Google image and just one on the 1904 photo I am guessing this photo was taken against Bendor house front which is now faced with two glazed conservatory additions. I'm sure this will be confirmed (or dismissed!) in the very near future. Once again, thank you so much for these very helpful additions.
-
Hi Neil,
It’s taken four months but at last I’ve obtained copies of the newspaper articles that mention the deaths / funerals of your CARTER ancestors.
Issue dated 2nd January 1904. The death and funeral of Elizabeth Woodhouse CARTER.
Issue dated 19th May 1906. The death and funeral of William CARTER.
-
Issue dated 1st August 1908. Death in Toronto, Canada of Henry Herbert CARTER.
-
Dear Gwynne, I am hugely pleased to have the two obituaries of William Carter and his wife. They are valued documents to myself and wife and we are very grateful to you for finding and posting these. Thank you so much - Kay and Neill
-
Thank you Gwynne also for Canadian obituary. Much appreciated!