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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: trazz on Monday 06 February 23 19:16 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I am looking for information on the above. I can find some info on FindMyPast Living in St John in 1851 with his Wife Ellen. I cant find this info on 1851 census on any other site. He was a Grocer? Found a Patrick Clifford in 1864 St John but not to sure if its the same Patrick.
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Similar names on 1860/1870 in New York but occupation differs. ?
1860 census Brooklyn Ward 14 District 1, Kings, New York
There is a Patrick Clifford born 1810 Ireland with a wife Ellen and children James Clifford; Catherine Clifford; Patrick Clifford. However Patrick is a tailor.
Patrick Clifford 50 Tailor
Ellen Clifford 45
Catherine Clifford 8
Patrick Clifford 1
James Clifford
and same family in 1870 Brooklyn Ward 14, Kings, New York.
Pat Clifford 60 Tailor
Ellen Clifford 52
Phillip Clifford 30
James Clifford 23
Cath Clifford 18
Pat Clifford 11
Sandra
Added Ancestry tree shows :-
Patrick Clifford 1807–1882
birth ABT 1807 EnnisKillen, Fermanagh
died 21 NOV 1882 - New York City, New York.
Ellen Clifford 1816–1874
birth 1816 - Ireland
died 1874 - Brooklyn, Kings County, New York
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Thanks for the info, but this is not the same family. I have already researched this family.
thanks again
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U.S., Census of Inmates in Almshouses and Poorhouses, 1830-1920
Patrick Clifford 1807 - 29 July 1880 (aged 73 years)
Birth PlacemEnnisKillen,Fermanagh,Ireland
Admission Datem29 Jul 1880
Father's Birth Place EnnisKillen, Ireland
Mother's Birth Place Enniskillen, Fermanagh, Ireland
Sandra
Typed so posted.
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https://archives.gnb.ca/Search/NewspaperVitalStats/?culture=en-CA
Have you tried this site.
Funeral for Ellen Clifford age 44 w/o P. Clifford at home on Carmanther St. St. Johns May 28, 1853
Sarah 2/0 Patrick Clifford age 27 funeral at same address as above w/o Patrick Clifford July 10 and 11 1863 newspaper
Do you know who the Catherine Stewart is in the 1852 census you referred to. She is in the same household as Patrick and Ellen. She shows the same 1825 immigration year or at least I assume it is an immigration year. On ancestry her age is transcribed as 15 but it is not clear at all. Might be 25 or 75??
There is a baptism on ancestry for a John Clifford 9 days old 10 May 1844 s/o ______Clifford and Ellen Keaney.
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Great site link, Cosmac!
From the NB directories, their are two entries for a grocer, Patrick Clifford, (1857 and 1864) and both have a street address as Carmarthen, so your findings seem spot on.
I am wondering if that 15 yr old Catherine is possibly a daughter, and the Stewart is her middle name.
She is dittoed under the W, for wife, of Ellen, so it's confusing:
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e096/e002386896.jpg
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https://archives.gnb.ca/Search/FEDS/Results.aspx?culture=en-CA&fn=hjTSKoNqnSCnyIGGxU0T6tneNV+vnSIxamOnqoIUnEw%3d&gn=7gx1pLdHNESBAX4diPWGWinmwoqAecvRCFExJAtylK4%3d&y1=1658&y2=2014
Perhaps related
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Wow cosmac and bbart
thankyou both.
Not to sure who Catherine Stewart is I was thinking it could be Ellen's mother but might never find out.
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If Catherine Stewart did emigrate in 1825 and was born in Ireland she is much older than 15. The Irish Portal on the New Brunswick Provincial Archives site doesn't list a Catherine Stewart arriving in 1825. There are a number of Catherine Stewarts marrying in New Brunswick in 1850s and 1860s but nothing to link them to the Clifford surname. Also can't find a Stewart death linked to her. I thought the image looked more like 75 to me but I am often mistaken in reading "hard to read" images.
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I am wondering if that 15 yr old Catherine is possibly a daughter, and the Stewart is her middle name.
She is dittoed under the W, for wife, of Ellen, so it's confusing:
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e096/e002386896.jpg
I cannot find the census (for them) using Anc*try. I was hoping to find them on (Anc*try) and look at nearby pages, looking at how the enumerator recorded others’ details, looking for a pattern. On the Cliffords’ page in the above link, the enumerator filled in columns with words or ditto marks. I wonder if he/she did not know Catherine’s relationship and filled in the spot with ditto? Or, could Catherine actually be married and living with or visiting the Cliffords. If she was 15, she could have almost been 16 and while young, still have been married. (I have one Irish ancestor who married very young - the theory was she sailed on her own, met her future husband on the ship and married shortly after settling in Ontario.)
Looking again at the link, it looks like “born” might have referred to born in Canada as a lot of the born notations refer to younger people?
It was most likely done, but were alternatives used when searching for Catherine Stewart? My Stuarts were recorded as Stuart, Stewart and Steward. [By the way, in the past, bbart actually did amazing sleuth work finding my Stuarts in Ontario.] ;D Again, keeping my Stuarts in mind (the parents and adult children sailed to Canada), perhaps if Catherine was married to a Stewart, there might be other Stewart family members nearby (including her husband, if he was still alive).
Note, I haven’t taken the time to search for a family in 1861 (from Catherine’s page), to see if my idea about “born” referring to born in North America might be correct.
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I cannot find the census (for them) using Anc*try. I was hoping to find them on (Anc*try) and look at nearby pages, looking at how the enumerator recorded others’ details, looking for a pattern.
The only census Anc. has is the Agricultural Census, so the cities/towns are pretty much omitted.
New Brunswick was not part of Canada at that time, and the (colonial) population census were, to put it very basically, very individually done area censuses. They are not all digitized at this time, and are locked away in some archive in New Brunswick. The few that are digitized, if I remember correctly, have to be gotten directly from their Archives for a fee.
Anyways, I just want to point out how to look at nearby pages in these kind of cases!
The link I gave for Patrick Clifford was http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e096/e002386896.jpg
On the image the book page is 120.
Just change the final digits of Patrick's url to change pages.
For example, changing the final "6.jpg" to a "5.jpg" will back you up one image to book page 119.
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e096/e002386895.jpg
Jumping way back to see the map of the area, change the final 3 digits of "896.jpg" to "772.jpg", so:
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e/e096/e00238672.jpg takes you to the map of the area.
It's not a perfect method, as in if you want to jump back 20 pages, you should just be able to subtract 20... but often, in digitizing images, there will be a repeat of a damaged page, or a test page, but you will be close!
Hope this helps in some future endeavour for someone!
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The 1852 entry for Clifford shows an Irish William Dunbar directly below that entry. Also a grocer. Didn't notice a family connection to Clifford family trying to look at their history.
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two people to track to see if they are related to your Patrick
William Wallace 28 b. N.York marriedd Oct 23, 1857 Boston, Mass. to Ellen McNamara, 32 b. Ire. d/o Patrick Clifford. This was 2nd marriage for both
Catherine Wallace baptized R.C. 21 Oct 1858 Boston parents William Wallace, Ellen Clifford. This couple is on the 1860 U.S. census in Boston.
John Clifford 26, b. Ireland s/o Patrick and Ellen Clifford married Worcester, Mass Jan 9, 1855 to Julia Bruthrick.