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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: Gwaelodian on Sunday 05 February 23 15:52 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I run a history group and have been asked if I can help locate Henry Williams for a member. Henry Williams is the son of Richard Williams. They are thought to be from a family of boatmen in Llantwit Fadre. The photograph below of the birth entry (1811)is partially unreadable, but it seems to say Henry, son of Richard Williams Villa. (Is Villa a house name? We can find no place named such). The remaining words we can't decipher.
Beyond that, the group member has links to the Morley and Williams families. The mother of his paternal Great Great Grandparents is thought to be Emma Jame Morley. The GG grandparents themselves are Llewellyn and Sarah Morley.
Is there enough here to search? If anyone can face it, I would love to pass it on to the man who seeks this missing link. Photos below: birth entry; Llewellyn and Sarah Morley and her sister Catherine Gwen Morley. 1895. Nantgarw.
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Second attachment didn't come through so here it is again. The Birth record where the word Villa is bewildering. Thank you so much.
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Hi,
I have had a look at the baptism register, and the word after the father's name seems to be an occupation. Still thinking about what it could be. The one above is Tyler, which is presumably tailor, so the spelling could be misleading.
So the entry is: Henry son Rich'd Williams [unknown] & Jane Ux'r (uxor is wife in Latin) Feb'ry 18th.
Queenie :)
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Richard and Jane also had another son baptised in Llantwit Fadre: John, baptised in 1807.
I have attached the snippet, but I am still struggling to think of what occupation this could be.
Queenie :)
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Again, Thanks. I am copying this to send on. The birth entry you send is clearly written. Re the other word, there are houses her called Villa but it doesn't make sense to interpret it as that on the bit we have. :)
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I don't think that it has to be an occupation: some names in that register do have occupations noted after them, but others seem to have a placename instead eg. Maesteg; Rhydhelig. So it might refer to the house where the family live, or is perhaps an abbreviation for 'Village'
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Possible marriage for Richard & Jane on 30th January 1806 in Llantwit Fardre. He is described as Richard William(s), farmer, and she is Jane Evans, spinster.
Perhaps Galium is correct that it is not an occupation, if he was actually a farmer around this time.
Queenie :)
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The family were publicans. I wondered if Victualer was the word? but now you have identified the father as a farmer, that doesn’t work. Tiller?
It so exciting to see your messages coming through. Thankyou all! The man involved says it’s brilliant!!! Very grateful for all you can send! :)
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A message from the person you are helping: This branch of my family lived near the Llest Colliery Crown Inn Llantwit Fardre they also ran the Crown Inn Pub at one stage.
He thinks they lived at Primrose cottage but then decided they lived in Asgrove cottage.
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Hi Villa in this context stands for Village
Heddwch
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Everything helps! Sounds logical.
Was there an address on the marriage certificate? Message to the researcher who found it.
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Sorry was unable to see it
Heddwch
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Another Child
Name John Williams
Baptism Date 1807
Baptism Place Llantwit Fardre, Glamorgan, Wales
Father's Name Richard
Mother's Name Jane
Event Type Baptism
Address Villa
John Williams's Parents and Siblings
OPEN ALL
Richard
Father
Jane
Mother
No Image Available
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There is a surname, of Villa, 20th Century (C20) in England
In The Gazette 1945 to 1978 there are about 6 entries for an R. W. Villa, mainly in the military.
C20
F m p has another Villa surname under American Roots, also another returning to America and there were other Villa surnames with multiple initials.
And a ... de Villa, too.
So a surname can't be ruled out.
Mark
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Mark and Hedwch
Both helpful notes. Again, I will pass them on immediately. This is all really interesting. :)
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On Free BMD
Villa surnames from Sept 1837.
Some first names suggest some might have had Italian links?
Mark
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Mark, this is incredibly interesting, but given Villa is given as the address of the second child, I suppose we stick to that. Thanks for your note. It would have addressed still more interest! You researchers are incredible!
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Hi, I run a history group and have been asked if I can help locate Henry Williams for a member. Henry Williams is the son of Richard Williams. They are thought to be from a family of boatmen in Llantwit Fadre.
There are 52 Glamorgan Archive returns from the late 1600s for a ... Williams Llantwit Fardre search (also spelt Llantwit Vardre, apparently?) Where the surname Williams and place name appear in the same catalogue description.
Also one Williams archive return for the Llantwit Fadre, spelling.
Including family papers.
http://calmview.cardiff.gov.uk/
Cat. No. D140
"Williams Family, collection" 1847 to 1934 documents collected by the Williams family which relate to the Llantwit Fardre area.
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Amongst Estate papers of another family at Glamorgan Archives.
Cat No. DD/657
Feb 1712/1713
Lease for 99 years or 3 lives, Anne Edwards, widow ...
Charles Talbot of Castlemenych, esquire, and wife Cecil, to Richard Williams of Llantrisant, joiner.
Right to fix a ferry boat to lands called Ynis goy adjacent river Taff; in Llantwit Fardre
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May I suggest that someone takes the required identification and proof of name with current address (check before going) to get a Readers Ticket and check out the documents in Glamorgan Archives, or apply for images of any documents they feel might help in their family research, to see if they relate to their particular Williams of this place, or not?
Mark
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Mark, there are interesting suggestions here. Thank you. I will pass this on. If anything interesting crops up from this search, I will post here. About to copy and paste to the person involved. Nx
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A bit more information that goes in withRichard being a farmer - there is a place near Crown Hill Llantwit Fardre that was called Villa! It was part of Ystrad Barwig farm.found during an archive paper search from ref attached.
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Mark, from the member of the history group re what you sent today: That information you sent this morning was the icing on the cake for me.
:)
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Thanks Gwaelodian, I'm hopeful some of those Williams records in Glamorgan Archives might be helpful and perhaps more.
The Star Inn picture (initial post), you mentioned the Morley surname.
Also similar picture on Facebook, Star Inn, Nantgarw. (Attached)
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Proprietor of the Star Inn, Nantgarw, Llewellyn Morley (also in a Directory image extract attached)
Leicester University Sp. Coll. Directories
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Newspaper quick search shows a Mrs Morley, Star Inn, Nantgarw, near Pontypridd.
Evening Express and Evening Mail 5th November 1903.
Front page, see under
HOTEL SERVANTS.
https://papuraunewydd.llyfrgell.cymru/view/4137415
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Looks like there are some 1923 building plans amongst Caerphilly Urban District Council Building Plans for the Star Inn, Nantgarw.
Glamorgan Archives
http://calmview.cardiff.gov.uk/
UDCAE/S/1/2078
Alterations to Star Inn, Nantgarw. Date, 25 Sep 1923. Description, Owner/builder: Architect: Thomas Morgan & Partners
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Our Village Inn Plans
One of the 1920s and 1930 (Bathroom & flushable toilet and connection to sewer 1930) alteration plans for our village Inn are in colour and also show all the room layout, room names (both floors), before some of the internal walls were removed later.
The 1899 Plan for the outside Ashpit Privies to the rear, shows the existing Urinal on the front wall, visible to anyone passing along the village lane or going into the Inn, front door.
So the saying about men going down the pub and pxxxxxx [weeing] your money up the wall, actually occurred in full view of passers by!
Mark
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Another load of exciting finds there, Mark. I’ve just copied and pasted for the member of my group.
Are you based in Wales or simply know your way around the Glamorgan archives?
Just had an immediate reply from the man you’re helping, he says, ‘I’m heading straight off to the archives’!?’ He’s clearly elated.
Many thanks.
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A bit more information: Llewellyn and Sarah Morley are buried in the graveyard of St Ilans Eglwysilan.
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Gwaelodian, a few years back I was helping a young man in Patagonia who was descended from a sister (Hannah) of Llewellyn Morley. Hannah's son John and his wife Hannah (Hopkins) emigrated to Patagonia on the Vesta in 1886. In researching the family I found a number of other people researching the same family, and there is a Facebook group set up by a man whose GG grandparents were also Llewellyn and Sarah Morley (which now has a number of family members). Not 100% sure but Henry may be his GGG grandfather (I was only really interested in the Morleys). Having finished my research I am no longer a member of the group but I'm happy to send you a PM with the details if you like.
I have Henry Williams born around 1811, in Llantwit Fardre, in my research tree. He married Gwenllian James in Eglwysilan in 1835. He was a boatman in 1851. The Sarah Williams who married Llewellyn Morley was his daughter.
The only Emma Jane Morley I have in the tree was one of Llewellyn and Sarah Morley's children. Llewellyn's parents were William Morley and Catherine Davies.
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I will pass on this to the person you were all helping. It’s an interesting addition! Please send me what you have by PM, I’ll pass it one and get back to you. Thankyou.
Norma
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What I have in my tree...
Henry Williams, baptised at Llantwit Fardre on 18 Feb 1811, son of Richard Williams and Jane Evans (married on 30 Jan 1806 at Llantwit Fardre).
He married Gwenllian James on 21 Dec 1835 at Eglwysilan, and they had at least 11 children, Ann, John, Henry, Mary, Sarah, Edmund, Gwenllian, Richard, William, Jane and Thomas from 1836 to 1860.
He was a boatman until the 1871 census when he was a labourer, living close to the Glamorgan canal in Gabalfa in Cardiff.
Gwenllian died in 1876; Henry in 1880, buried at Eglwysilan on 2 April 1880.
I'll PM you the name of the Facebook group and it's creator.
Edited to add: none of this is proven with certificates, only parish records and census data. And no fathers named in 1835 to guarantee Henry is the same Henry as the baptism son of Richard.
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Henry Williams b 1911 is my maternal 2nd great grandfather. Any help needed please ask ;D
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Thanks. I will pass that one to the person I am asking for. :)
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The photo of The Star Inn, is of Sarah and Llewellyn Morley. Sarah was the daughter of Henry and Gwenllian, my great grandmothers sister. The older child is my great aunt, child of Jane Williams the other is Sarah's.
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I’m passing on your messages. Are you able to give your name? Thanks. Interesting to see the connections. It’s an iconic photo. Nx
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My name Suzanne. Very willing to help if I can but you seem to have covered the basic paper trail very well. Hopefully I can fill in the blanks plus info on the children as 11 takes time ;D.
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I’ve discovered you are a third cousin and already helping on his FB page! Nx
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Am I, can you supply a name please thanks x
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Lyndon.
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Sorry, time to bow out. Lyndon knows more than me about Henry.
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Thanks for your help, anyway. Nx
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LOL Lyndon does Happy searching
Heddwch