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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: sandi on Sunday 29 January 23 12:22 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
Hope someone can help me out here.
I have an address on the 1851 census of a John Evans living at
2 Gwargoelan, Llangeler. Necastle Emlyn.
His trade was a stone mason. I am unable to find anything on the web about Gwargoelan.
Many thanks for taking th etime to read this post.
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Not sure if "Gwargoelan" applies to John Evans?. The transcriber may have assumed it in the absence of an "address" at the top of that page. Your John is at No 2?
The Cenus page is headed "Parish Llangeler, village of Pontweli". The next Census page states "End of the village of Pontweli" (8 households).
I think "Pontweli" is an attempt to capture "Pont-Tyweli". The Census address after "Pontweli village" is "Rhydygalfe".
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102178709
In the top right corner is Pont-Tyweli and Rhyd-y-galfe is just to the west. I think this is the area you should be looking at?
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There's an item in "The Welshman, 15 Jan 1841" about moving the turnpike gate to Pontyweli.
If you check household No. 8 on the '51 Census in "Pontweli Village" the occupant is a "Toll Gate Collector"
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On the 1841 Census the address of "John Evans, age 40, mason and Margaret Evans, 35" is "Pontweli Village".
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I have looked on the Family Search 1851 census and John and Margaret's eldest daughter, Mary is 25 but I can't find her on the 1841 census to confirm which one is correct.
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If you are checking Familysearch for the Census, you will not be seeing the original Census sheets?
1841 Census
Census sheet is headed "Parish of Llangeler (part of)". In the "Place" column is "Pentreweli Village" and it lists 10 premises under that address. The Evans' household is -
John Evans, Mason, 40, not born in County
Margaret Evans, 35, David 15, Margaret 11, Evan 8, Ann 7 and William 1 - all born in County Carmarthenshire.
The age of anyone over 15 is rounded down to the nearest 5 eg. Margaret could be any age between 35 and 39.
1851
The Census sheet is headed ""Parish Llangeler, Village of Pontweli"
The "Name of Street, Place or Road and Name or No of House" column only includes a house number "No1 - No 8" (8 households). Your John is at No2. In error, whoever transcribed the Census sheet took the name "Gwargoelan" from the last entry preceding Pontweli Village. All 8 households have the name "Gwargoelan" against them. The Evans household is
John Evans, Head, Marr, 50, Mason, born Llangeler (NOTE - this conflicts with the 1841 birthplace)
Margaret Evans, Wife, Marr, 47, born Llanfihangel (the age fits the 1841 rounding down)
Mary, 26, Unm, Mason's Daur, born Llanfihangeli
Peter 7, son, born Llangeler; Thomas 4, born Llangeler.
Daughter Mary does not link the 1841 and 1851 households.
On the 1841 Census, John Evans' next door neighbour is William Jones, Tailor. He is still next door in 1851. A David Simon, Weaver, is next door but one in 1841 and still next door but one in 1851.
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On the '51 Census Mary Evans, 26, gives her place of birth as "Llanfihangel" which I take to be "Lllanfihangel-ar-arth". The nearest fit I can find is -
Baptisms - Parish Church of Llanfihangel-ar-arth
5 Jan 1822, Mary, dau. of John and Margaret Evans, father's occpn. Mason, abode "Graig fach".
At post #2 above is a link to the map of the area. The closest I can find to "Graig fach" is "Tan-y-graig-fâch" - top right corner.
As for baptisms of all the other children mentioned I have drawn a blank. I found a birth registration for a Peter Evans, Mar Qtr 1844, Newcastle Emlyn which fits the 7 yr old Peter on the '51 Census - mother's maiden name is Evans.
As for your John's address, I notice on Streetview that the cottages on Station Road, Pontweli/lly are numbered 1-8 (before the Cilgwyn pub). I did wonder if these are the 8 premises on the '41 Census. Do the cottages look old enough?
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On the 1861 Census, John Evans, 63, Stonemason and Margaret, 59 are still in Pontweli/lly Village but with a "Mary Evans, dau, age 5, born Llangeler"?
The sequence of addresses reads " ..., Dangraigfach, Rhydgalfau, Gate House, Pontwelly (6 premises)" then "End of Pontwelly village".
Wd. be nice to identify where the Gate House (toll) was.
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I've found "The Old Toll Gate" on the A486 and on the 1876 map marked "T.P", west of "Tan y Graig Fach".
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Cannot see John Evans or Margaret in Pontweli/lly in 1871. The addresses on the 1871 Census sheet reads -
" ..., Toll Bar, Danygraig, Rhydygalfe, Old Toll Bar (unoccupied), Half Moon Inn, Twellyside, Pontwelly Stores, Fountain, Panteg, Cilgwyn Arms ..."
"Fountain" is occupied by Daniel Jones, 57, Carpenter, born Llandissil. On the 1861 Census under "Pontweli Village" is "Daniel Jones, 48, Carpenter, born Llandyssil
"Panteg" is occupied by Daniel Davies, 61, carpenter, born Llangeler. On the 1861 Census under "Pontweli Village" is a "Daniel Davies, 52, born Llangeler"
In 1861 both were close neighbours of John Evans.
Checking Street view there is a "Twellyside" and "Half Moon Inn" still on Station Road .
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Thank you so much for your help it has been most useful. I feel now I am on firmer ground to sort this family out.
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Croeso.
Best of luck with the Evanses - such a difficult name to chase.
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Excuse me if this question was already answered.
I have looked on the Family Search 1851 census and John and Margaret's eldest daughter, Mary is 25 but I can't find her on the 1841 census to confirm which one is correct.
She would be old enough in 1841 to be working away from home.
Trish :)
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Excuse me if this question was already answered.
I have looked on the Family Search 1851 census and John and Margaret's eldest daughter, Mary is 25 but I can't find her on the 1841 census to confirm which one is correct.
She would be old enough in 1841 to be working away from home.
Trish :)
Agreed - I did cast around in that locale for a Mary Evans NOT part of the family eg. occpn. "F.S. etc". But any such find was unlikely to add to the search anyway.
I found her probable burial "Parish Church Llanfihangel-ar-arth, bur. 17 Jun 1853, abode Pontdiweli, age 31 yrs." This gives a YoB c.1822 which fits the baptism at post #6. Her mother Margaret was buried 4 Sep 1875, age 72, Pontwely but father John yet to surface post 1871.
As for the original post seeking location of the family in '51 if I was a betting man my money would be on their being at what is now No. 2 Station Road.