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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: mum mum on Saturday 28 January 23 03:31 GMT (UK)

Title: Antonio de Travers 1852-1931
Post by: mum mum on Saturday 28 January 23 03:31 GMT (UK)
Hi,

I'm trying to find the birthplace of this gentleman as listed on his naturalization papers, the town/district doesn't seem to exist anymore.
mum mum
Title: Re: Antonio de Travers 1852-1931
Post by: jorose on Saturday 28 January 23 04:21 GMT (UK)
How about Grisons for the canton? Also called Graubünden.

This would be the place I think:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paspels
Title: Re: Antonio de Travers 1852-1931
Post by: mum mum on Saturday 28 January 23 05:05 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that, I couldn't make it out at all.
Title: Re: Antonio de Travers 1852-1931
Post by: garstonite on Saturday 28 January 23 05:16 GMT (UK)
Mum Mum - we don't know if familytrees are right
but this tree says Antonio Victor De Travers
born 5th July 1852
Canton Prison
Switzerland
.................................................
copied and pasted
Born 5 July 1852 - Canton Prison, Switzerland
Deceased 23 November 1931 - Tallangatta, Victoria, Australia, aged 79 years old
 
Spouses
Married 20 September 1909, Victoria, to Maria Macklin 1854-1938

the tree owner is a Gaye Cairns
do you want the link to this tree ??
Title: Re: Antonio de Travers 1852-1931
Post by: garstonite on Saturday 28 January 23 05:23 GMT (UK)
on this tree it looks like he married TWO sisters
Born in 1852 - Suisse
Deceased 23 November 1931 - Tallangatta (Australie), aged 79 years old
 
Spouses
Married to Annie Macklin 1866-1901
Married 20 September 1909 to Maria Macklin 1854-1938
Title: Re: Antonio de Travers 1852-1931
Post by: ShaunJ on Saturday 28 January 23 08:06 GMT (UK)
Paspels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paspels
Title: Re: Antonio de Travers 1852-1931
Post by: pb_devon on Saturday 28 January 23 08:29 GMT (UK)
The Register of Swiss Surnames has Travers as a historic Paspels name/family
https://hls-dhs-dss.ch/famn/index.php?lg=e

Familysearch has a detailed page on the canton: https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Switzerland_Genealogy scroll down and click on the map (GR is in the south-east).
There is a detailed page on Paspels parish and what records are available and where.

Edit to resolve links.


Title: Re: Antonio de Travers 1852-1931
Post by: mum mum on Saturday 28 January 23 22:41 GMT (UK)
on this tree it looks like he married TWO sisters
Born in 1852 - Suisse
Deceased 23 November 1931 - Tallangatta (Australie), aged 79 years old
 
Spouses
Married to Annie Macklin 1866-1901
Married 20 September 1909 to Maria Macklin 1854-1938
The first wife was my 1st cousin 3x removed, the 2nd was apparently her Aunt though I haven't pursued the link yet.
mum mum
Title: Re: Antonio de Travers 1852-1931
Post by: mum mum on Saturday 28 January 23 23:15 GMT (UK)
Hi all,
Thanks for the help so far, a family member also gave me this newspaper article, it has always been said that he was a Swiss Count who perhaps got into some trouble at home and was sent to Australia.

Due to my lack of any language other than English I am struggling with finding anything about him in Europe. According to his marriage certificate his Father was Rudolphus de Travers and his Mother Christina 'Sohaber'?

If anyone can find a connection I would be grateful.
 mum mum
Title: Re: Antonio de Travers 1852-1931
Post by: mum mum on Saturday 28 January 23 23:45 GMT (UK)
Mum Mum - we don't know if familytrees are right
but this tree says Antonio Victor De Travers
born 5th July 1852
Canton Prison
Switzerland
.................................................
copied and pasted
Born 5 July 1852 - Canton Prison, Switzerland
Deceased 23 November 1931 - Tallangatta, Victoria, Australia, aged 79 years old
 
Spouses
Married 20 September 1909, Victoria, to Maria Macklin 1854-1938

the tree owner is a Gaye Cairns
do you want the link to this tree ??
Thanks but I don't need the link to that, there are a few trees on Ancestry that include him but they don't seem to have any more info than I do at this stage.
Title: Re: Antonio de Travers 1852-1931
Post by: jorose on Sunday 29 January 23 02:39 GMT (UK)
https://archive.org/details/schweizerischesg42lend/page/n337/mode/2up?q=%22Viktor+Travers%22

Anton Viktor Travers v. Ortenstein, b. 1852 and went to Australia, is listed here, son of Johann Rudolph Anton Travers and his wife Maria Christine Schaber.  Looks like quite a few generations back are listed.

My German is definiately not good enough to translate the whole thing.
Title: Re: Antonio de Travers 1852-1931
Post by: maddys52 on Sunday 29 January 23 08:43 GMT (UK)
There are quite a few articles on trove that mention Antonio including the one you have posted which was from the  Kilmore Free Press, Thu 29 Dec 1910. None give much more detail. Although an obituary does say that his Uncle was an officer of the Papal Guard in Rome.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/254232353

For interest, his job "formerly in the service of shire council" appears to have been as a nightsoil contractor ("dunny man" as they were called).
Title: Re: Antonio de Travers 1852-1931
Post by: pb_devon on Sunday 29 January 23 09:24 GMT (UK)
Something doesn’t seem right to me.
He has ‘de’ in his surname, which is French for ‘of’ or ‘from’, but he is from a german speaking part of Switzerland.
Graübunden, and Switzerland, at the start of the 20th C was very poor and many emigrated to seek a better life (my ancestors included).
He turns up in a remote part of Australia claiming to be related to all sorts of notables.
Hmmnn!
The item Jorose linked is intriguing but I cannot work out the context of it.
However now we have more vital facts there’s much to build on.
Title: Re: Antonio de Travers 1852-1931
Post by: maddys52 on Monday 30 January 23 01:00 GMT (UK)
I'm not sure that he was claiming to be related to notables - the consulate contacted him.

Another article says he was "a Switzer, hailing from a French canton, but the family is of Austrian descent."
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/69555508
Title: Re: Antonio de Travers 1852-1931
Post by: Karen McDonald on Monday 30 January 23 10:53 GMT (UK)
Hi,

In case it hepls, the Schweizerisches Geschlechterbuch in jorose's link is basically a Swiss genealogical almanac.

I can't find anything for the Swiss version, but here is a link (the page is in English) explaining the German equivalent:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsches_Geschlechterbuch (ftp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsches_Geschlechterbuch)

The entry for Anton(io) refers to him (obviously  ;D), giving his DOB and stating that he works on a farm in Oz, to his parents (incl. DOB, DOD, marriage date) and to (2 of) his children.

It says that according to the Swiss consulate, he is a widow. Documentary evidence of his marriage(s) and the births of children has not been obtainable to date. Son John Rudolf's birth is given as an approximate date, and for son Anton there is no info. 
Title: Re: Antonio de Travers 1852-1931
Post by: pb_devon on Wednesday 08 February 23 11:38 GMT (UK)
I don't know if you've got him on the immigration lists arriving on the Northern Monarch from Plymouth on 12 June 1876 at Adelaide. Listed on the South Australia Assisted Passage Lists, age 24.

See this newspaper article about the ships arrival where he is named:  https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/31969855

Both have him as Anton Travers.

I remain of the view that he later embellished aspects of his back story!
Title: Re: Antonio de Travers 1852-1931
Post by: mum mum on Friday 10 February 23 02:32 GMT (UK)
I don't know if you've got him on the immigration lists arriving on the Northern Monarch from Plymouth on 12 June 1876 at Adelaide. Listed on the South Australia Assisted Passage Lists, age 24.

See this newspaper article about the ships arrival where he is named:  https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/31969855

Both have him as Anton Travers.

I remain of the view that he later embellished aspects of his back story!

Thanks for that link, I had found the arrival but not the article. I too am rather inclined to think that he may not have been all that he claimed to be. After all, we haven't seen the letter, only that he said he had received a letter.
mum mum