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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Jed Stu on Friday 20 January 23 00:12 GMT (UK)
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Please can you help expand on my great uncles military record and history.
I have George Jenkins’s WW1 Death Penny
Henry George Cyril Jenkins, was born on 1st July 1893, Cardiff.
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Was Henry 'George' Cyril Jenkins with the 1st or the 11th Devons?
Was the Torbay Hospital a military hospital during WW1, and might it be possible to find out what George's injuries were?
I don't believe there is a Commonwealth War Graves Commissioner grave for George, should there be one?
Is it possible to find out where the 1st / 11th Devonz served and fought over in France?
Does anyone have access to the Keep Military Museum, I believe they have some 'Devons' records?
I haven't been able to find any reference to George's medal 'issue'.
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George Jenkins
Devons Regiment
11th (or 1st ?) Battn.
Regimental No. 12725
Death Date. 24 Feb 1915
Date Place Torbay Hospital, Torquay.
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Henry George Cyril Jenkins, aged 21 years.
Private 1st Devons
Buried Monday 1st Mar 1915.
Cathays Cemetery, Cardiff.
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Ref: The attached file... please can you tell me what the abbreviations mean on this Register, and are there any other miltary documents relating to my great uncle... many thanks.
George Cyril Jenkins
U.K., Army Registers of Soldiers Effects.1901-1929
Records No. 150500A6
Registry No. E / 84119 / 1
Soldier’s Name Jenkins George Cyril
Regiment, Rank, No. 11 Serv Battn Devonshire Reg.t Pte 12725
Date and Place of Death 24.2.15. Torbay Hospital Torquay
Place of Birth, Date of Enlistment, Trade on Enlistment
(1) Whether Will left, and if so, Name of Legatee and how disposed of
(2) If no Will, Next of Kin as stated by Regiment
Credits.
Account and Date Exeter. May 15
£2 s.18 d.2
Charges
£2 s.18 d.2
Account and Date M.O. 7 / 15
Date of Authority. 15. 7. 15/1
To Whom Authorised Fa: David A.
Amount Authorised £2 s.18 d.2
(2nd Line)
Date of Authority
C.P.E.C. }. 8. 4.16/2
Accts 7 }
To Whom Authorised Fa: David A.
Amount Authorised £2 s.18 d.2 {
{ Vote 6E(1) £7-4•/-
{ Vote 1D2 £3-15•/-
{ Funeral expenses
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Many thanks, and I look forward to learning more.
Jed
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A check on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website shows George (HGC) Jenkins (No 12725) served with the 11th (Reserve) Battalion of the Devons and died 24 Feb 1915. He is buried in Cathays cemetery, Cardiff. There is reference to an address (parents / wife ?) at 22 Loudoun Square Cardiff. The notes attached to the entry indicate that, in common with several others, no headstone was included in the original burial order. Whether this was something to be done later or was left to the family to do is not clear.
The Long long Trail website (longlongtrail.co.uk) explains that: "most of the British infantry regiments had a number of Reserve Battalions during the Great War. They were responsible for training of recruits and of men returning to duty after being in medical care or away for any other reasons."
The 11th (Reserve) Battalion of the Devonshire Regiment was
Formed in Exeter in November 1914 as Service battalion, part of K4.
November 1914 : came under orders of 100th Brigade, original 33rd Division.
10 April 1915 : became a Reserve battalion.
1 September 1916 : converted into 44th Training Reserve Battalion in 10th Reserve Brigade.
From this it seems that the 11th Bn was not a Reserve Bn at the time of George's death but was probably in training and homeland guard duties.
It may also pay you to check the Military Records on Ancestry to see if they have more information there. I am unable to access them at the moment.
Maec
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Hi,
Some of the same info as given by Maec, I was typing while that was being posted, so I'll post this too :)
I think this is his CWGC reference,
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2759365/george-jenkins/
It looks like the graves are very well kept,
https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/2072516/cardiff-cathays-cemetery/
There is a page about him at findagrave. It has a newspaper cutting that gives his cause of death as influenza, it also has a picture.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/55899749/george-jenkins
I found the same newspaper report in the Western Mail 02 March 1915.
This could be his death certificate, Torquay was in the Newton Abbot Registration District,
George Henry JENKINS Mar Q 1915 Newton Abbot 5b 266
Age: 21
Regards,
Daisy
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I also found this,
03 March 1915 Western Mail
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Sadly he Died of Influenza while Training with the 11th Devonshire in Feb 1915
Because he never went Overseas
No Medals were due
Hence No Medal Index Card
CWGC erected a Military Headstone 15 February 1924 I Cathays Cemetery
I would have expected to find a Dependents Pension Card to his Mother or Father David
But can't find one ?
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Sadly he Died of Influenza while Training with the 11th Devonshire in Feb 1915
There are 4 pension cards held on Fold3 - his mother, Sarah, received a dependants pension and after she died, his father, David, became the recipient.
The most interesting card of the 4 is the one that I have attached -- it states the cause of death as MENINGITIS.
(image courtesy of Fold3 / Western Front)
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Well Done AllanUK
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CWGC page
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Good morning Maec (and everyone)
Thank you so very much for your knowledge, dates and explanation surrounding George's unit.
Do please send me any website links, images or screenshots relating to the 11th Devons... if you're able and when you have a moment.
Thank you once again. Have a great weekend. Jed
A check on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website shows George (HGC) Jenkins (No 12725) served with the 11th (Reserve) Battalion of the Devons and died 24 Feb 1915. He is buried in Cathays cemetery, Cardiff. There is reference to an address (parents / wife ?) at 22 Loudoun Square Cardiff. The notes attached to the entry indicate that, in common with several others, no headstone was included in the original burial order. Whether this was something to be done later or was left to the family to do is not clear.
The Long long Trail website (longlongtrail.co.uk) explains that: "most of the British infantry regiments had a number of Reserve Battalions during the Great War. They were responsible for training of recruits and of men returning to duty after being in medical care or away for any other reasons."
The 11th (Reserve) Battalion of the Devonshire Regiment was
Formed in Exeter in November 1914 as Service battalion, part of K4.
November 1914 : came under orders of 100th Brigade, original 33rd Division.
10 April 1915 : became a Reserve battalion.
1 September 1916 : converted into 44th Training Reserve Battalion in 10th Reserve Brigade.
From this it seems that the 11th Bn was not a Reserve Bn at the time of George's death but was probably in training and homeland guard duties.
It may also pay you to check the Military Records on Ancestry to see if they have more information there. I am unable to access them at the moment.
Maec
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Good morning Daisy
Thank you so very much for researching and checking on my great uncle George, and it is great to see a 'newspaper' photograph and article on him too... as attached to the FindAGrave site, I wonder which newspaper published this.
Thank you once again.
Have a great weekend. Jed
Hi,
Some of the same info as given by Maec, I was typing while that was being posted, so I'll post this too :)
I think this is his CWGC reference,
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2759365/george-jenkins/
It looks like the graves are very well kept,
https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/2072516/cardiff-cathays-cemetery/
There is a page about him at findagrave. It has a newspaper cutting that gives his cause of death as influenza, it also has a picture.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/55899749/george-jenkins
I found the same newspaper report in the Western Mail 02 March 1915.
This could be his death certificate, Torquay was in the Newton Abbot Registration District,
George Henry JENKINS Mar Q 1915 Newton Abbot 5b 266
Age: 21
Regards,
Daisy
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Hi Daisy... an added note...
Would you please and kindly 'when you have a moment' post or PM me a copy of the page in the Western Mail, or maybe a couple of screenshots of the page title, of George, and possibly of any other 'lost' soldier's listed on the same page... thank you so very much again.
Jed
Hi,
Some of the same info as given by Maec, I was typing while that was being posted, so I'll post this too :)
I think this is his CWGC reference,
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2759365/george-jenkins/
It looks like the graves are very well kept,
https://www.cwgc.org/visit-us/find-cemeteries-memorials/cemetery-details/2072516/cardiff-cathays-cemetery/
There is a page about him at findagrave. It has a newspaper cutting that gives his cause of death as influenza, it also has a picture.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/55899749/george-jenkins
I found the same newspaper report in the Western Mail 02 March 1915.
This could be his death certificate, Torquay was in the Newton Abbot Registration District,
George Henry JENKINS Mar Q 1915 Newton Abbot 5b 266
Age: 21
Regards,
Daisy
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Good morning Alam
Thank you very much for your research and for checking on my great uncle George.
Please may I ask where you saw the reference to the CWGC erecting a Military Headstone on 15 February 1924, atthe Cathays Cemetery... please can you send me this article.
Thank you so much.
Have a great weekend.
Jed
Sadly he Died of Influenza while Training with the 11th Devonshire in Feb 1915
Because he never went Overseas
No Medals were due
Hence No Medal Index Card
CWGC erected a Military Headstone 15 February 1924 I Cathays Cemetery
I would have expected to find a Dependents Pension Card to his Mother or Father David
But can't find one ?
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Good morning Allan
Thank you so very much for finding George's details and sadly too that he died of Meningitis... its such a great shame.
Please could you possibly save and PM the cards you found over to me when you have a spare moment.
Have a great weekend and thank you again. Jed
Sadly he Died of Influenza while Training with the 11th Devonshire in Feb 1915
There are 4 pension cards held on Fold3 - his mother, Sarah, received a dependants pension and after she died, his father, David, became the recipient.
The most interesting card of the 4 is the one that I have attached -- it states the cause of death as MENINGITIS.
(image courtesy of Fold3 / Western Front)
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Good morning everyone...
I was trying to work out and see how I could thank you ALL (hopefully this works) for everything that you've researched and found, thank you all so much.
Golly I wish I'd researched great uncle George years ago... but of course I've always thought of him, also of the great number of my family who've served in many ways and also from all sides of the wars.
I must try to put together and publish a Great War and WW2 article one day, showing all of my families input into each sides or the war, from the English, the Welsh, the American, the French, and the German side too... But I may well need a little more help from you all on RootsChat.
Its such a great shame that our families, and what are effectively 'cousins' have to go to war, and for what.
I have so much more to learn.
Thank you ALL once again.
Have a great weekend.
Jed
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Hi,
Here are the newspaper snippets,
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FindMyPast has a 14 day free trial period,
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/free-trial?event_location=header?nextpage=%2F
and Newspapers.com have a 7 days trial,
https://www.newspapers.com/
You would be able to see the newspapers there.
Wisdom I learnt from a previously forgetful moment of mine, "always remember to cancel the subscription before it runs out" :)
Regards,
Daisy
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Images without blue boxes,
You can see the full pages at the sites I mentioned above.
Regards,
Daisy
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George Jenkins did in deed leave the U.K. during the war, and not die whilst training with his unit.
I initially thought that George had signed up with the 1st Devons, this should be the 3rd Devons, and from here George transferred to the 11th Devons.
Can you please possibly find any further evidence and documentation relating to the 3rd Devons training at the Holy Trinity Parish Hall, or at Exeter?
Is there any reference to the 3rd or 11th Devons on board the S.S. Dulcie and the Elmsgarth, or possibly on route or returning from Gibraltar or Constantinople?
Also, is there an establishment with a WW1 database of all known 'issued' medals?
Many thanks again.
Jed
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From our wartime Jenkins family postcards... George Jenkins writing home...
Postcard;
"It's got to be done, they won't be told."
Dated...
1914 September 30th.
Holy Trinity Parish Hall"
H...? Company
3rd Devons
Exeter.
Dear Aunt and grandfather.
Just a few words hoping you are quite well. as I am pleased to say it leaves myself at present. Well I have joined the Army I had to leave my job. All the boys had to. Good luck. No more now. Love to you and granddad. George
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.... November 18th, Sadly the year is not clear...
George writes home...
Postcard;
Salute de Constantinople. Tour de Leandre.
Aboard the
S.S. Dulcie.
(George aboard the S.S. Dulcie, is on his way to Constantinople, via picking up orders from Gibraltar. )
Dear All
Just a line hoping find you all right. This is a view of Constantinople, this is where you begin to go up the river, grand isn't it. Well can't get no rats tails. Received letter safe. Going to Gibraltar for orders. Hope you are well. Keep this postcard as it is one of the half dozen I bought. We are leaving here. Remember me to all at home without naming. Tell J.P he will get no cigars as there are none.
Fondest Love George
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23 MAG 13.
Postcard;
Civitavecchia. Italy.
Aboard the
S.S. Elmsgarth
Postcard:
Roma. Palazzo Reale Quirinale
Dear grandfather and Mary
Just a line hoping you are on the best of health same as I am at present. I had a letter from home saying you grandfather was ill with a cold Hope it is better now. I am at sea again you see. Well I hope you get a good crop of hay in this summer and I hope you will. I will get this in on the 6th of June as he said. Nice place this. Hope you are well. George
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So he was not the son of David and Sarah Jenkins, 20 Loudoun Square?
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Hi, yes George was the son of David and Sarah of Loudoun Square.
I have dozens of my Jenkins family postcards written between one another all over Cardiff, dating between 1900 ~ 1970's. And especially to their grandfather, and sickly aunt Mary.
So he was not the son of David and Sarah Jenkins, 20 Loudoun Square?
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The Elmsgarth (a civilian cargo ship owned by the Clapham SS Co) was indeed at Civita Vecchia in May 1913.
The Dulcie was also a civilian cargo ship. So presumably George was in the merchant navy briefly before the war.
Merchant navy background adds context to the "It's got to be done, they won't be told" postcard from Exeter.
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Hello Shaun
Thank you very much for checking on these ships. Please may I ask if you noted the arrivals, departures and the ports during the SS Elmsgarth May, 1913 trip?
Many thanks again.
Jed
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The Elmsgarth left Cardiff for Civita Vecchia on 11th May, arrived 21st. After that I lose track of her. There is a report on 14 June that she is in St Louis but that could be an error. There will be a record of the voyage somewhere and others may know where to find it.
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Hi, thank you for checking in on the Elmsgarth's whereabouts again. And yes it would be great if anyone else can add to this, also to the SS Dulcie as well
Thank you lotsss.
Jed
The Elmsgarth left Cardiff for Civita Vecchia on 11th May, arrived 21st. After that I lose track of her. There is a report on 14 June that she is in St Louis but that could be an error. There will be a record of the voyage somewhere and others may know where to find it.