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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: Nova67 on Sunday 15 January 23 00:04 GMT (UK)
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I am very interested in my Tasmanian ancestry.
Nine close family members have tested to help fuel my interest. Out of these four of us have matching 7-8 people who have the nearest common ancestor of Nicholas Bonnitcha who is thought to have emigrated in 1856. He married in Hobart in 1858. Born 1835, per Nationalisation papers.
My mother, aunt, first cousin, and I match. My cousin has slightly higher CM's (more in the 20 range across one segment) and shows shared matches, even though I match all of them and a couple more. There are also three Canadians who match.
I cannot fathom how we could also be related to him.
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Did you have Nicholas Bonnitcha in your tree before you took a DNA test?
If you think he might be a DNA connection, have you built up a tree for him? You might need to consider the female line as well, eg his wife, as you may connect that way.
You mention naturalisation(?) - depending on records, searching in foreign lands could present you with difficulties.
Do any of your matches have trees you could look at? Have you made contact with any of them?
Added: I presume you have already seen this:
https://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=bonnitcha
Unfortunately not much seems to be known about his origins.
Of course, your common ancestor could be earlier than Nicholas, but it might be easier to look into Euphemia’s family first?
What does his naturalisation certificate say about his place of birth? This should be information provided by him so should be fairly accuarate. I can’t remember what is on Tassie certificates, but do either of his marriage certificates name his parents?
Reason I ask is that the dna connection may be further back. Also consider siblings as descent may have come through one of them.
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Hello Ruskie
Thank you for your reply.
I do not have this man on my tree, hence I do not understand the matches. Yes, whoops, I do mean naturalisation papers. These are open to view at the National Archives of Australia; however, the server currently appears to be down.
My maternal great-grandmother Amy Louisa Moody was born on 4 Jan 1888. On her marriage certificate, she says born Sandfly,Tasmania. On her birth registration it says the family was living on Huon Road at Leslie. She left Tasmania and married and died in NSW. Back from her my direct ancestors in Tasmania births pre-date 1856.
Everyone with the surname of Bonnitcha would connect either through marriage or birth back to Nicholas Bonnitcha. He was illiterate so the true spelling of his surname seems to be unknown. This seems to become the accepted spelling (from what I have read).
Nicholas married Euphemia Fraser in 1858 in Hobart. We match some descendants. He also seems to have had a relationship with Emma Matilda Brooks who had a child whose birth is registrated under the name of the step-father she married around the same time she was born. We also match descendants. This is what makes me think he is the common link, but not known how.
My DNA question was asking with all the shared matches is this likely to be genuine?
My mother and aunt's DNA matches suggest it is their maternal side. Another aunt matches none of these people. Nor does mum's first cousin or her family.
A new match I discovered yesterday with the Bonnitcha surname has a shared match with my mother with another person that I think connects to my Moody's. The other match did not have a tree and did not reply to the message, but I am assuming she connects to Moody's in Tasmania as her shared matches do.
Sorry, this is so long-winded. I am post night shift so I hope this makes some sense!!! Apologies if not.
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Ruskie, I have seen this, but not tried to log in (re tribal pages link). Naturalisation papers say born in Ragusa (Austria-Hungarian Empire) now Dubrovnik, Croatia. Another passenger list gives his native place as Trieste (Italy). He was a seaman.
Apparently, his naturalisation papers give his parent's names as Marco or Marcello and Catarina. I can't say I noticed this when I looked at them, hence trying to look again.
I did send a permission to view my DNA results to a Bonnitcha descendant, which was accepted. They didn't reciprocate, however.
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I think you should just be able to click on the link to get into the tribal pages tree without signing in. I could anyway. Surnames are alphabetical.
Added: the tree appears to be well researched.
I will mull over the DNA puzzle. :)
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As so many of you interconnect with Nicholas, there must be a link.
Do you know much about Amy Louisa’s family?
DNA is passed down randomly, so it could be that a cousin or other of your relatives didn’t pick up any Bonnitcha DNA.
What sort of range of cMs do you and Bonnitcha descendants share? (Wondering what sort of relationship you have been allocated)
By the way, which company did you test with! And have you uploaded your raw data to other companies? Sometimes that can pick new matches.
I hope you can get into the Tribal pages tree - some addresses are given for at least some of the people so at you might find some places in common.
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The only Moody I can see on there is Charles William Moody who is my 1st cousin twice removed. Thanks, Ruskie, for your thoughts.
I have no reason to think I am not related to Moody's as two generations of men before Amy Louisa - one with different wives and all DNA matching.
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So you have Charles William Moody b 1897 Hobart who married Goldie Whitney on your tree?
If he features in this Bonnitcha tree won’t that will be how your dna tallies up with Bonnitchas?
How much do you know about Charles William Moody?
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Replies have crossed over.
All tested with Ancestry.
I am getting more 5th-8th cousin estimates, but the other three family members are getting a combination of more 4th-6th. Anywhere from about 9-24 CM's across mainly one segment.
I know a lot about Moody's. I have a private tree on Ancestry. We descend from the convict James Moody.
Posting before I have read lasted addition to the thread.
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Looks like the Bonnitcha connection to Charles William Moody is through his wife's family.
https://www.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=bonnitcha&view=0&pid=5816&ver=46
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Quite distant relatives sharing quite small cMs.
It looks like you might have found that connection though Nova. :) You could contact the administrator of the Tribal Pages tree - I see that it hasn’t been updated since 2013 - more information may have been found over the years but not added.
I’m not very good at unravelling DNA but I think every one I’ve managed to work out so far as come through the female line (apart from only one that comes to mind).
Maybe consider uploading your raw data to other sites? Upload is free but there is a fee to unlock the more useful features. You have a lot of kits so maybe start with yours and/or your mothers?
Good luck.
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Hi Nova67, I have just come across your post, my name is Andrew Bonnitcha, maybe I can help with your inquiry?
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Hello Andrew,
It is nice to hear from you. Have you DNA tested? I do have access to one descendant of Nicholas Bonnitcha and Euphemia Fraser DNA matches, as mentioned before, my family also matching descendants of Emma Matilda Brooks. There is a close family group of which of number of members have tested and they are either on Ancestry or My Heritage, or both. They seem to be on Emma’s side. My close family seem to match many of them. I do not know if Tasmania is a red herring.
Nova67
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Yes I have tested but with 23 & Me, I am also on GEDMATCH, Tasmania is definitely not a red herring. Nicholas first arrived in Tasmania, he lived here (yes I live in Tassie) his whole life, however he was a mariner so spent a good part of his life away from Tassie, hence his affair with Matilda, Nicholas probably did not even know he had any other children apart from those he had with Euphemia. I found out about his other family through DNA, I have been in touch with the family to confirm.
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Hi Nova67, can I have a bit of info on your family so we can see where you fit in?
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As luck would have it, I returned to work the day you replied previous to which I had five weeks off to look into such things. I am working all weekend.
My great grandmother is the Tasmanian connection. She is Amy Louisa Moody born 1888 (birth registered as Annie) and her parents were James Moody born 1836 and Elizabeth Jane Johns born 1848. To have a DNA cousin relationship you have to have a common direct ancestor/s at some point. To me this does not fit with Nicholas and his own age or arrival in Hobart. I realise as a mariner that he could have been here before, but possibly not.
It is mainly four DNA matches to the same people on Ancestry to myself, my mother, my maternal aunt and her daughter. Apart from my cousin, we are all also on My Heritage. There is a shared match on Ancestry with another descendant of James Moody and Elizabeth Jane Johns. also, the person I have exchanged results with has one other Moody match to the next Moody generation back. also, a shared match to someone in Canada, who added Bonnitcha after I emailed, but actually has no known connection!
My other aunt, her first cousin, cousins two children and granddaughter do not get the DNA matches.
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Looking at My Heritage matches, the DNA matches to seem to be to descendants of Sarah Lingard Simkin through Nicholas Bonnitcha and Emma Matilda Brooks. At least six closely related to each other have tested and match to us.
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It seems then that the connection has to be through Emma, I have over 8 thousand names on my tree with just one Moody, the mother of a husband of my 3rd cousin. I can give you heaps of info on Nicholas' descendants but nothing before he arrived in Hobart as that is a mystery - a brick wall that is 4 bricks thick.
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We do match several Euphemia descendant’s. One is a father and son, unless that is some other connection? I will take a look back from Emma when I have more time.
Have you thought of testing with Ancestry? Even if you do not match us it would be interesting to compare matches. I thought the company you tested with was more US testers. I know they all are, but I think Ancestry also gets a lot of UK and Australian testers. I can see that SP who shared with me gets far more Bonnitcha matches.
It is very mystifying!
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I am on a pension mate so it is all about the money, and then you would have to join ancestry to get any meaningful info. I always had intentions of uploading to gedmatch as that covers all testing companies. It was through gedmatch I found Emma's side. Interesting you have Euphemia's DNA, maybe it wasn't Nick Snr but Nick Jnr? Nick Snr would of been 53 at the time of Sarah's birth while Nick Jnr would of been 19 and Jnr was a frequent visitor to Victoria to play football. What do you think.
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I am still not sure how it all fits. It could be an NPE but then if it is Jnr then maybe it is back from Euphemia and Scotland. I have forgotten some of my thinking from last year. I am time poor this week but when I have more days off, I will have a rethink. I wish this had come through even a week ago!
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https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=716294.msg5599783#msg5599783
Stephen is one of our DNA matches.
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No worries, I will wait until you reply again, I am in no hurry.
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Which Stephen is that?
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Ok, my brother Stephen, I wasn't aware he had done a DNA, I will have to ask him.
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The name Bonnitcha and Tasmania are of interest to me.
My husband has a DNA match to some people on Ancestry who are researching this name.
His father was born in Tasmania in 1911 we have been unable to find a birth record for him.
I'll read through all the information that you people have posted and get back to you.
However, his surname was "Wilson" not Bonnitcha.
Sarra
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Hi Sarra, what was your father in laws first name?
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Hi Andrew,
He called himself Leslie.
Unfortunately, we know very little about his life in Tasmania. Perhaps he was born under another name.
The DNA matches my husband has with Bonnitcha researches is from his Paternal line.
Sarra
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Andrew,
Just had a look on Ancestry. My husband has a match to a Stephen Bonnitcha he has a small Ancestry Tree. Hasn't been on there for some time.
The names I can see are Eric Bonnitcha - Nicholas Bonnitcha - Katheen Bell and a few others.
My husband's DNA - 4-6th Cousin - 55cm - 3 segments.
Is this Stephen Bonnitcha your brother??
Sarra
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No, my brother has not tested his DNA yet, he will in the next month or so. There are two other Stephens that I know about but I do not know them. The other names I recognise. I found a birth for a Leslie Carman Wilson born 3/8/1909 in Burnie, Tas, the parents are Leslie Wilson and Maria Elizabeth Everton, it is the only Leslie I could find but as yet cannot find a connection to the Bonnitcha's. Could this be your Leslie?
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Andrew, Those names are not familiar to me. Then again we know so little of Leslie's parents.
When he married here in Victoria his parents were not listed on the marriage certificate.
He was supposedly born in St Helens Tasmania.
It was mentioned at one time that his father was called Michael and his mother Emily.
We have searched the Tasmanian records for Leslie's birth with those parents - nothing was found.
I think I will go back to the person I contacted on Ancestry who was researching her husband's Bonnitcha ancestors see if anything comes up.
Thanks for your reply.
Sarra
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Andrew,
Just had a look on Ancestry. My husband has a match to a Stephen Bonnitcha he has a small Ancestry Tree. Hasn't been on there for some time.
The names I can see are Eric Bonnitcha - Nicholas Bonnitcha - Katheen Bell and a few others.
My husband's DNA - 4-6th Cousin - 55cm - 3 segments.
Is this Stephen Bonnitcha your brother??
Sarra
Yes, that is who my four family members match. I am wondering if the Stephen who made the post on RC has two trees on Ancestry as there is a bigger tree with the same photo as his avatar on here. There are also three people with your name, Andrew, who have trees on Ancestry.
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I will PM who are our other known DNA matches as I should not post on here. I am starting to look into Emma. Which death on Victorian BDM are you thinking? I am working on her name on death. That BDM has quite good information sometimes in the index - if the informant is providing accurate details!
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Anna ???
SIMKIN
Anna Matilda
Death
<Unknown Family Name>, Unknown
MORLEY
<Unknown Family Name>, SIMKIN Richard
HAWTHORN EAST
<Unknown Family Name>
80
1942
12126/1942
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Seems strange but Anna does sound similar to Emma. Depends on the accent?
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It could just be a transcription problem from deciphering the information onto the index. I feel more confident about her birth and death details now, so possibly Sarah is the child of Nicholas Jnr. I am sure this sounds familiar from my research last year and why I started looking into Euphemia Fraser. I think the Canadian shared DNA matches had Ross and Cromarty, Scotland ancestry. I wish that I knew the definitive answer, but I am still stumped on how we connect.
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Sarra and I communicated a lot offline and discovered the person that she was researching for had a connection to the Bonnitcha's through the Bell line.
I have recently been looking into it again, and I think the people that my family has shared DNA matches with, in Tasmania and Canada, must have the nearest common ancestors of:
John Watson and Margaret Fraser married in July 1795 in the parish of Avoch in Ross-shire, Scotland.
John per 1851 Census born abt 1767 Avoch
Margaret of Kirkhill parish, Inverness-shire at the time of the marriage. No death found and not on Census.
I wish I knew how it connected through to us, but I think the above couple are likely to be the parents of Ann Watson who married Donald Fraser.