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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: ALAMO2008 on Friday 13 January 23 17:25 GMT (UK)

Title: Death Penny Plaque
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Friday 13 January 23 17:25 GMT (UK)
Pte 11850 James Tongue of 1st King's Liverpool Regt aged 21
Enlisted 1914 aged 18
Sent Overseas 5 October 1915
Went through The Battle of the Somme till November 1916
But must have Refused to be Shot at again by going over the Top again. Classed Deserted Post
Had Court Martial and Shot at Dawn 8 January 1917 by his Mates
Buried in North East Corner of Churchyard alone at Agenvillers France not with his Mates Fallen
The Three Medals earned and War Gratuity and Dependents Pension All Refused to his Parents
His Mother was paid his 3 years unclaimed Army Pay only.
My Question is :- Did the Parents have The Death Penny Plaque sent ?
Title: Re: Death Penny Plaque
Post by: louisa maud on Friday 13 January 23 22:13 GMT (UK)
I cannot confess to know anything  about wars and the rights and wrongs but I find this incredibly sad,  he cannot have been the only lad to be shot in this way

LM
Title: Re: Death Penny Plaque
Post by: Jebber on Friday 13 January 23 22:29 GMT (UK)
This is the memorial to those shot at dawn, at the  National Arboretum.
Title: Re: Death Penny Plaque
Post by: Treetotal on Friday 13 January 23 22:38 GMT (UK)
I believe that the Death Penny was issued to soldiers who lost their life in the line of duty, I don't think that they were issued to deserters.
Carol
Title: Re: Death Penny Plaque
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Saturday 14 January 23 08:36 GMT (UK)
Louisa
See photo from Jebber of All the others Shot like that to make an Example
Australia and New Zealand joined Britain in the War on an Agreement in advance
 that None of their Troops could be Shot for Desertion.
Their Troops experienced equally the worst actions.
I have seen No evidence their Desertion was any higher without the deterrent.
Ernest Thurtle MP with Help from T E Shaw they go the Death Penalty abolished in 1930s
In 2006 Parliament Pardoned All these wronged Soldiers who weren't cowards.
(https://i.postimg.cc/G3V8XH4L/180930967-1499841477.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Death Penny Plaque
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Saturday 14 January 23 08:43 GMT (UK)


(https://i.postimg.cc/P5Rq2qfb/20230112-094637.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
Title: Re: Death Penny Plaque
Post by: tonepad on Saturday 14 January 23 09:42 GMT (UK)
"The next of kin of the 306 British and Commonwealth military personnel who were executed following a Court Martial did not receive a memorial plaque."

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/memorials/memorial-plaque.htm


Tony
Title: Re: Death Penny Plaque
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Saturday 14 January 23 10:12 GMT (UK)
Brilliant Tonepad !!
Your Find answers what I suspected.
The Family were not even sent the Death Penny!
Title: Re: Death Penny Plaque
Post by: Chris Doran on Saturday 14 January 23 18:50 GMT (UK)
The one that I have for a local lad says around the edge: "He died for freedom and honour" and the accompanying letter and scroll from the King contain phrases like "a brave life given for others" and "path of duty and self-sacrifice" which I guess would not have been considered appropriate for someone classed as a deserter, despite his previous service.
Title: Re: Death Penny Plaque
Post by: MaecW on Sunday 15 January 23 04:35 GMT (UK)
Hi Alamo,
You are correct that Australia refused to allow any of its men to be executed. This was due to an incident during the Boer War when two Australian Officers ("Breaker" Morant and Peter Handcock) were executed without the Australian authorities being consulted.
Unfortunately New Zealand did not follow suit and five NZers were executed during WW1.
From NZ History website : "28 members of the NZEF (were) sentenced to death during the war. Five of these men, all privates, faced a firing squad: John Braithwaite, Frank Hughes, John King, Victor Spencer and John Sweeney. Four were executed for desertion, Braithwaite for mutiny.

In September 2000 all five men received posthumous pardons when the New Zealand Parliament passed the Pardon for Soldiers of the Great War Act
."
Title: Re: Death Penny Plaque
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Sunday 15 January 23 08:57 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that
I never knew that
I heard the Movie name Breaker Morant 40 odd years ago
I always wondered what it was about.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaker_Morant_(film)
Title: Re: Death Penny Plaque
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Sunday 15 January 23 11:45 GMT (UK)
Small World
Just noticed the Movie Breaker Morant with Edward Woodward
Is being shown on Channel 34 - Great Movies on Tues 17 January at 3.35 a.m. till 5.50 a..m. of 18th January