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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: erinb1983 on Thursday 12 January 23 23:03 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I am researching my partner's family tree currently and have found his great-grandparents marriage certificate. The only issue that I am having with it, is where his grandfather says he was born, to me it looks like Wallerong but no town like that seems to exist, the closest place I can find is Wallerawang. What does everyone think?
Thanks
Erin
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My first thought was Wallerawang. Just past Lithgow, site of now decommissioned power station. What was his occupation, does it fit with that area?
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He was a labourer but by the time he is married in 1922 he is living in Rozelle in Sydney. His father is listed as a carpenter on the marriage record but this is before the power station would have been built, I think.
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Do you want to share his name?
It may help with searching for his parents' location.
Sue
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His name was John William Reynolds, his gives his parents name on his marriage certificate as John Reynolds(deceased) and Ethel Swan. I have searched but are unable to find a birth record for him, my partner is aboriginal and the family story is that his father might not have been aboriginal but Ethel may have been.
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There is a Wallerong mentioned here......
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/65087356?searchTerm=Wallerong
.... ? maybe an error for Wallerawang which must be about 100miles west of Sydney.
Or maybe I should be thinking 100 miles west of Canberra?
Also a mention here - in the Narrandera area / Riverina?
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/101438205?searchTerm=Wallerong
I think this might seem the most likely. Perhaps the name of station which no longer exists??
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That was my thinking too that maybe it was a station. To say this guy is a mystery is a understatement, I also can’t find a death record for him but he disappears after the 1943 electoral roll and is not living with his wife in the next one so I have no idea what happened to him.
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This could be John Reynolds (the father) - the the Narrandera District
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/101236971?searchTerm=%22John%20Reynolds%22
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There is a Wallerong mentioned here......
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/65087356?searchTerm=Wallerong
.... ? maybe an error for Wallerawang which must be about 100miles west of Sydney.
Or maybe I should be thinking 100 miles west of Canberra?
Also a mention here - in the Narrandera area / Riverina?
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/101438205?searchTerm=Wallerong
I think this might seem the most likely. Perhaps the name of station which no longer exists??
Wallerawang is about 100 miles west of Sydney. (I think Canberra did not become the capital until after 1908)
Good thinking that it may be the name of a station.
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This could be John Reynolds (the father) - the the Narrandera District
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/101236971?searchTerm=%22John%20Reynolds%22
There is no son "John William" among the names of this John REYNOLDS' sons. :-\
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Can you please list all the information on the marriage certificate.
Everything please.......
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Pretty sure it would be Wallerawang, originally called Waller-owang by the native Wiradjuri people; and later Charles Darwin used the spelling Wallerowang. And as Neale1961 has found in his first reference, the town is about 100 miles west of Sydney. Neale’s second reference is to a property name, so probably just a coincidence (unless the property was named after a spoken reference to the district or for the aboriginal meaning of the word, ‘place near wood and water, or plenty of water’; the marriage certificate says Wallerong, NSW so I think it would be referring to a town or district, not a property.
Peter
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Using NSW BDM I am not seeing a marriage for John W REYNOLDS, 1920-1925.
Can you identify the marriage record please. Who did he marry.
Use NSW BDM.......births......SWAN......mother Ethel
Finds several 1898 +, with no father named, including
32896/1901 SWAN Jack parents - / Ethel M @ Lithgow
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This could be John Reynolds (the father) - the the Narrandera District
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/101236971?searchTerm=%22John%20Reynolds%22
There is no son "John William" among the names of this John REYNOLDS' sons. :-\
Yes, I realised that. I just wondered (as suggested by erinb1983) if he was an illegitimate son, and part Aboriginal, he may not have been widely known about / or discussed.
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I don’t think that’s John Reynolds the father in that article.
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Can you please consider my questions to you at reply #10 and #12
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That birth of Jack Swan I have considered to be him, I may need to order the certificate. Also when he is married in 1922 he says his father is deceased already at that point. I will upload the full certificate when I can get to my computer (love school holidays 🫤). He married Dorothy Kathleen Janes she sometimes went by Dorothy and sometimes Kathleen.
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I see that Dorothy died in 1988 and on death notice in the SMH 10.10.1988 husband is listed as " Jack deceased".
so he must have died between 1988 and 1949 ( the last I can find them both at Fivedock on E Roll)
Marriage from NSW Index
2701/1922 REYNOLDS JOHN JANES DOROTHY K BURWOOD
ct
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Found by wivenhoe, of the births with mother Ethel M and surnamed SWAN are worthy of note.
SWAN, Albert. b. 1898. Bathurst.#19252
Swan, Jack b. 1901 Lithgow.#32896
Between Lithgow and Bathurst 60 km.
As noted previously, between Wallerawang and Lithgow 15 km
Sue
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I have attached the full marriage certificate.
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yeah that didn't really work, so I'll try again
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So the witness was Victoria REYNOLDS.
Is she John's sister?
Here is a birth
SWAN Victoria
13503/1904
Father -
Mother Ettie
At LITHGOW
Sue
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Well I have assumed it’s his sister, but I literally just got the marriage certificate yesterday. Ettie would make sense and the area fits, I think I’m going to have to order some certificates.
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Ancestry Electoral Roll 1936
REYNOLDS Kathleen Dorothy 28 Lancelot St Five Dock
NSW BDM marriage
10300/1925 WARR Jack O marr. REYNOLDS Victoria @ Ashfield
Ancestry Electoral Roll 1934
WARR Jack Osborne labourer
WARR Victoria 8 Lancelot St Five Dock
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Yes, I saw this today and thought that could be the sister. I just lost my best friend at Christmas and we were the genealogy buddies so I’m glad to have other people to bounce stuff off.
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The death of Victoria.
WARR Victoria May
33370/1963
Father John
Mother Edith
At BALMAIN
There seems to be a sister Hebe Reynolds b. 1903 also at Lithgow.
Sue
News notices for Victoria WARR
Partial Death notice. I can PM the rest of the named relatives if you wish.
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Yes that would be great if you could, thanks so much :)
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The SWAN mother to SWAN and REYNOLDS children might be Ethel or Edith, given abbreviation is Ettie....eg Eedie for Edith....Ettie of Ethel..sound similar.
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Hi,
Attached as PDF, ( for privacy reasons), the full Death Notice for Victoria
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Thank you for that :)
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"His name was John William Reynolds, his gives his parents name on his marriage certificate as John Reynolds(deceased) and Ethel Swan."
He married as John REYNOLDS, 1922.
Why are you naming him as John William REYNOLDS?
Where do you see him as John William REYNOLDS?
Where and when did he die?
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:o ::)A reminder from wivenhoe has prompted me to add and correct a sloppy research posting on my part !
The birth of the sister to Victoria (Nee Swan AKA Reynolds) which I mentioned above.
Heba SWAN
1903
At Lithgow
Father -
Mother Ettie
#4259
Sue
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Just summing up the births of John and his siblings:
1898/19252 Albert no father Ethel M mother Bathurst
1901/32896 Jack no father Ethel M mother Lithgow
1903/4259 Heba no father Ettie mother Lithgow
1904/13503 Victoria no father Ettie mother Lithgow
1907/6141 George no father Ethel M mother Newtown
Erin, you say that “the family story is that his father might not have been aboriginal but Ethel may have been”. As the father’s name is never recognised in the birth records, perhaps he (or both he and Ettie) was aboriginal.
Peter
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It’s a possibility they both were aboriginal. I’ve ordered John or Jack’s birth certificate so we will see how we go.
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I think this is Heba/Eva REYNOLDS
NSW BDM marriage
6004/1921 REYNOLDS Eva marr. MERCHANT Edward G @ Balmain South
Sydney Morning Herald Sep 30 1938 p6
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17523668?
....MERCHANT V MERCHANT... divorce
NSW BDM death
3837/1961 WILSON Eva parents John / Ethel @ Hurstville
Ancestry NSW Electoral Roll 1930 @ 1 Campbell St Balmain East
MERCHANT Edward George
MERCHANT Heba
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I was just looking into Heba/Eva this does seem to be her. I will follow up on this information. Thank you so much to everyone for all their help. :) :) :)
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Mmm...Looks likely wivenhoe.
Heba/Eva married WILSON
23624/1940
WILSON Albert John
MERCHANT Eva
At PETERSHAM
Sue
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Somewhat bizarrely the WIILSON couple in 1943 lived at 17 Reynolds Avenue Balmain. ;D
Albert John was a baker.
Sue
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Oh gee that is very bizarre. ;D
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Although there is a death notice published in the Sydney Morning Herald for Eva Wilson in 1961, it is in a large group which are not digitised at Google Archives..
24JAN1961
Death aged56
late of Kogarah Bay
http://ryersonindex.org/search.php
Sue
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"His name was John William Reynolds, his gives his parents name on his marriage certificate as John Reynolds(deceased) and Ethel Swan."
He married as John REYNOLDS, 1922.
Why are you naming him as John William REYNOLDS?
Where do you see him as John William REYNOLDS?
Where and when did he die?
The written Family history had his as John William but I'm not sure where this came from. I can't find a death record for him at all. He disappears from the electoral roll between 1948-1958. In 1948 he is still living with his wife in Five Dock but after that she is on her own.
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Although there is a death notice published in the Sydney Morning Herald for Eva Wilson in 1961, it is in a large group which are not digitised at Google Archives..
24JAN1961
Death aged56
late of Kogarah Bay
http://ryersonindex.org/search.php
Sue
"WILSON. Eva - January 24 1961, of 10 John Street, Kogarah Bay, dearly loved wife of Albert John Wilson, loved mother of ... fond mother-in-law of ... and dear grandmother of their children, aged 56 years. Requiescat in pace."
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Hi Maddy. Erin will be glad to see that.
Can you convert it to PDF and post it as a link?
In 1989, Kathleen was declared a widow at the probate of her will which was dated in 1973
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/231491283?searchTerm=%22dorothy%20reynolds%20five%20dock%22~16
Sue
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I"ll try, hope this works. :D
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Thank you for the PDF, I do appreciate it. So he definitely did die at some point probably between 1948-1988 but I can not for the life of me find any death record for him.
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I"ll try, hope this works. :D
It's fine!!
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Just a note here.
Both Victoria and Heba were Roman Catholic.
Does that fit with your husband's understanding of his forebears?
Of course things change over years, but it may suggest that Ethel/ Ettie was Catholic if her daughters were.
Sue
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Not sure if it's already been posted, there is a death notice for Kathleen REYNOLDS in SMH 10 Oct, 1988. I can't seem to get it to focus - maybe Sue can do better? ;)
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Just a note here.
Both Victoria and Heba were Roman Catholic.
Does that fit with your husband's understanding of his forebears?
Of course things change over years, but it may suggest that Ethel/ Ettie was Catholic if her daughters were.
Sue
Interestingly no that was not his understanding at all. His understanding is that they were Church of England.
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Not sure if it's already been posted, there is a death notice for Kathleen REYNOLDS in SMH 10 Oct, 1988. I can't seem to get it to focus - maybe Sue can do better? ;)
Think I have it now ...
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I wonder if this is your "Jack" REYNOLDS of Five Dock - rescuing a child from fire in Five Dock
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/129077694
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/81090392
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Wow, it’s certainly a possibility, I believe he was living in five dock at that time. When he first appears in the 1930s electoral rolls he is a labourer and he says he is a labourer on his marriage certificate but it could have been a second job.
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I am thinking that the children, at least Heba and Victoria were brought up in care. At least at some time.
https://content.archives.nsw.gov.au/delivery/StreamGate?dps_pid=FL3020943&dps_dvs=1673679963806~256
https://content.archives.nsw.gov.au/delivery/StreamGate?dps_pid=FL3020993&dps_dvs=1673680141295~190
Sue
Adding, they were stated as RC. on the records.
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Oh that is sad, at least they found there way back together as Victoria witnesses her brothers marriage in 1922.
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Here is John too. All to Mrs Curran.
Father's middle name is given as Thomas, not William
https://content.archives.nsw.gov.au/delivery/StreamGate?dps_pid=FL3019572&dps_dvs=1673680929329~300
Sue
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Oh dear and that looks like after the fathers name it says deserted :(
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Yes.
You have there also an address for Ethel May at that time.
A few more clues to work through anyway.
BTW, I would not take too seriously the statement on Jack's marriage certificate that his father was deceased.
It may have been easier than explaining, or maybe he had lost contact with his father and did not know dead or alive.
Sue
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I was just saying that to my partner, perhaps he was not deceased but either “dead” to his son because of the desertion or just didn’t want to explain to his wife or purely didn’t know whatever happened to him. At least they don’t seem to stay in care very long.
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John REYNOLDS, at marriage 1922, and describing his father as deceased, true or not, serves the purpose of giving you reason to believe that mother Ethel is alive at 1922.
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Yes I agree, I think she was alive at that point. I’ve ordered John’s birth certificate so maybe it will give me some more insight into Ethel.
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I wonder if this is the birth of Ethel M SWAN -
NSW BDM birth
10056/1880 SWAN Ethel May parents John /Eliza @ Bathurst
The birth certificate for Jack SWAN, 1900, will show age and birthplace of mother Ethel, which should assist in identifying her SWAN family.
If Ethel SWAN is having a family with John REYNOLDS, and there is no marriage to find, the most likely reason would be that Ethel SWAN and / or John REYNOLDS are still married to someone else.
We have reason to believe that Ethel M(ay) is alive at 1922. Ethel might be using a name other than SWAN or REYNOLDS, depending on her domestic arrangements after the 1911 departure of John Thomas REYNOLDS, which absence is suggested by the children-in-care records.
Using NSW BDM...deaths.....Ethel M........parents John / Eliza....died 1922 +....in an inner (Sydney) city location has several possibilities but I am not getting anywhere with this.
By the social conventions of the times, Ethel, in old age, would most likely go to live with an adult daughter.
Burial places of daughters Heba/Eva WILSON and Victoria WARR would be useful as they might also be burial place of mother Ethel M(ay).
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Not a great help, but here is an obituary for the possible mother, Eliza Jane SWAN who died 1932.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/143136638?searchTerm=%22swan%2C%20eliza%22~12
Death
SWAN Eliza J
8362/1932
Father EDWARD
Mother CATHERINE
At BURWOOD
Sue
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I don’t think that’s her in that article but thanks anyway.
I looked at that birth record for Ethel and I think that could be a possibility. Once o get John (jack) birth certificate hopefully I will know more.
I’m not sure if 1 of them was married and that’s why they couldn’t marry or if it was simply because Ethel is suppose to be aboriginal.
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I don’t think that’s her in that article but thanks anyway.
I looked at that birth record for Ethel and I think that could be a possibility. Once o get John (jack) birth certificate hopefully I will know more.
I’m not sure if 1 of them was married and that’s why they couldn’t marry or if it was simply because Ethel is suppose to be aboriginal.
I wonder if this is the birth of Ethel M SWAN -
NSW BDM birth
10056/1880 SWAN Ethel May parents John /Eliza @ Bathurst
Erin,
Do you mean you think the obituary I have posted is not for the Eliza ( Jane ) SWAN,-wife of John , the woman whom wivenhoe has highlighted as a possible mother for one Ethel May SWAN?
Can you say why?
Sue
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At reply #61, obituary for Eliza SWAN, 1932...at the residence of her daughter Mrs Ted WHITE, Strathfield -
NSW BDM birth
20491/1895 SWAN Florence M parents John / Eliza J @ Bathurst
NSW BDM marriage
16782/1914 SWAN Florence M marr. WHITE Edward H @ Wellington
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What is the reason for this information?.......where does it come from?
"Ethel is suppose to be aboriginal."
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I don’t think that’s her in that article but thanks anyway.
I looked at that birth record for Ethel and I think that could be a possibility. Once o get John (jack) birth certificate hopefully I will know more.
I’m not sure if 1 of them was married and that’s why they couldn’t marry or if it was simply because Ethel is suppose to be aboriginal.
I wonder if this is the birth of Ethel M SWAN -
NSW BDM birth
10056/1880 SWAN Ethel May parents John /Eliza @ Bathurst
Erin,
Do you mean you think the obituary I have posted is not for the Eliza ( Jane ) SWAN,-wife of John , the woman whom wivenhoe has highlighted as a possible mother for one Ethel May SWAN?
Can you say why?
Sue
Sorry I was out and about yesterday and was trying to follow along on my phone. I thought you meant that was Ethel in the article, It could be her mother if that is her in the birth record.
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What is the reason for this information?.......where does it come from?
"Ethel is suppose to be aboriginal."
Well my partner is aboriginal and his grandmother who is still alive has told him him that her husband told her it came from his grandmother.
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I have now received John (Jack's) birth certificate and yes it does name Ethel May Swan as his mother, his father's details are unlisted.