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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Peckroot on Wednesday 11 January 23 18:14 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to trace the birth of Sarah Ann Baker about 1828 in Barley, Herts. Her father is given as James Baker, Labourer on her marriage to Joseph Calcutt in Coggs, Witney, Oxfordshire in 1862.
There is not so far any evidence for her mother's name.
Sarah appears in all the censuses from 1861 to 1901 the year of her death and consistently gave her birth place as Barley but I have not found her there. Also she does not seem to be in the 1841 or 1851 censuses.
Any suggestions gratefully received.
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There is a baptism for a Sarah Baker in Barley, Herts, she was baptised on 16 July 1837, Parents listed as a James Baker and Mary. This could possibly be her, children were not always baptised straight away. So this is a possibility at least.
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Hello Peckroot and welcome to RootsChat
You have posted in the "travelling people" board. I'll ask a moderator to move your thread to the Hertfordshire board.
There is also a Sarah BAKER baptised at Wendon Lofts on 20 Jan 1828, father James (labourer) and mother Mary. Their abode at Elmdon. (some 5 miles from Barley).
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On FreeREG;
Also a SUSAN Baker Bapt 24 Jan 1837 St Margaret of Antioch, Barley
Parents JAMES/MARY, Father a Labouer
Abode Royston Workhouse*
+ a Marriage;
William BAKER to Sophia BOWTELL
01 Nov 1851, St Margaret of Antioch, Barley
William a Sawyer, Sophia a Servant
Fathers;
THOMAS Bowtell a Labourer
JAMES Baker a Labourer
1861 Census
William Baker 37 Head Mar Gardener born Barley (1824)
Sophia Baker 29 Wife Mar
Emily Baker 5 Daughter
Alfred Baker 3 Son
George Baker 7/12 Son
William/Sophia seem to be witnesses at the Marriage same Church of THOMAS Baker, Widower*, to
Elizabeth NEWLING, Spinster, 25 Dec 1860
His Father JAMES a Labourer
Trish :)
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Hi erinb1983,
Thanks for your reply, it's an interesting point. I had seen that and thought the same as you but the record is from familysearch so no immediate access to the original records. I tried other Baker children and found Susan in january with the original there from FindMyPast. I thought it would be a simple task to scroll from Susan on page 46 through 1837 to find Sarah.
No such luck, she's not there ! No James Baker, father either. Just what is familysearch up to I wonder
Interestingly, from 1833/4 the date of birth begins to be written on the left hand edge, presumably anticipating the 1837 introduction of civil registration of births.
Thanks again.
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1851 Census
Thomas Baker 27 Ag Lab born Barkway
Ann Baker 24 Wife
Thomas Baker 4
William Baker 2
George Baker 9 mths
William Baker 28 Brother Unm Sawyer* born Barkway
Emma Giver 17 Sister in Law
Think you can rule this one out now as Barkway Bapts have Parents as JAMES/JUDITH
(FreeREG)
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Hi Maddys52,
Thankyou for the kind welcome, glad to be here. It all looks fascinating!
I had posted on Travelling People because , first , there is in the extended family suggestions of some sort of Romany past and second, Baker is given as a Romany name so I thought I would see what sort of a response I got. I have to admit that so far the only evidence is that they moved about alot i.e. absence from the early censuses and generally difficult to find!
So I would like to keep the post on Travelling People for a bit longer if possible.
Thanks also for the Wendon Lofts baptism. That did come up in my FindMyPast search but it's in Essex , at least it is now. Would it have been then I wonder.
Thanks again.
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Susan died young;
BAKER, SUSAN age 1**
GRO Reference: 1838 J Quarter in ROYSTON AND BUNTINGFORD Volume 06 Page 421
Possible for James?
BAKER, JAMES age 43***
GRO Reference: 1837 S Quarter in ROYSTON UNION Volume 06 Page 349
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Hi Trish1152,
Thanks for pointing me to freeREG, I must keep that source in mind in future. However in this instance I have only been looking at baptisms as they go back further. Of course with the census only from 1841 and civil births from 1837, I realise I am now in genealogical country where family history can easily turn into fiction!
See my reply to erin1983 re Susan Baker birth. It's interesting that it does appear in freeREG as the Civil Registration Act did not start until later in the year.
Thanks also for the other Baker records. Constructing a family may be the answer.
Your replies are coming in as I type!
Thanks again.
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FreeREG does not have all records but most are before Sept 1837 and taken from Parish Records by volunteers.
It is being added to all the time.
Some counties are covered more than others so far.
I just have added all I can find at this stage but sorting out all the James Bakers in Herts in your time frame is going to be time consuming.
Others may be able to help more.
Trish :)
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Thanks Trish,
Was I thinking of freeBMD perhaps.
Don't worry, I can have a go.
Thanks for pointing me towards it.
Roger
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Thanks also for the Wendon Lofts baptism. That did come up in my FindMyPast search but it's in Essex , at least it is now. Would it have been then I wonder.
It's only a possibility, and probably only a small chance of being correct as Sarah gives her place of birth as Barley rather than Elmdon, however I wouldn't rule it out just because it is in a different county. Barley, whilst in Hertfordshire, is very close to Essex and Cambridgeshire. Baptisms could occur wherever the family wanted, not necessarily in the county (or even the town) in which they were living - as in this case Sarah BAKER of Elmdon was baptised at Wendon Lofts. :)
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Yes thanks,
I think I will have to accept that provisionally and see what sort of a family I can construct. The test being whether it can explain how Sarah Ann got over to Witney (which could be explained by it being a Romany family) and also how she didn't marry until the age of 34 (which apparently is unusual in Romany families).
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There is a Baker's Lane in Barley, so one of the Baker families may have been landowners in the village. It's only a short bit of road cutting off the corner between the High Street and the Royston Road.
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.0301461,0.038504,3a,75y,9.07h,89.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHIdJLaLwD6_WQbTMG1QwJA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17.0&lat=52.03116&lon=0.03791&layers=6&b=4
Little road going off to the left just behind the big house.
The big house on the Google map is Dalnyveed, built in 1907. But there seems to be a building shown on the same site on the 1896 map. maybe that belonged to the Bakers
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Thanks for that. It could be an intriguing thread to follow though it does rather skewer the story of the travelling Romany!
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On FreeREG;
Also a SUSAN Baker Bapt 24 Jan 1837 St Margaret of Antioch, Barley
Parents JAMES/MARY, Father a Labouer
Abode Royston Workhouse*
+ a Marriage;
William BAKER to Sophia BOWTELL
01 Nov 1851, St Margaret of Antioch, Barley
William a Sawyer, Sophia a Servant
Fathers;
THOMAS Bowtell a Labourer
JAMES Baker a Labourer
1861 Census
William Baker 37 Head Mar Gardener born Barley (1824)
Sophia Baker 29 Wife Mar
Emily Baker 5 Daughter
Alfred Baker 3 Son
George Baker 7/12 Son
William/Sophia seem to be witnesses at the Marriage same Church of THOMAS Baker, Widower*, to
Elizabeth NEWLING, Spinster, 25 Dec 1860
His Father JAMES a Labourer
Trish :)
In 1851 William seems to be a lodger with Thomas Baker and his wife Ann and family at Pudding Lane (other end of village from Baker's Lane. ) Both Bakers are recorded as being born in Barkway
In 1841, William and possibly the same Thomas (both aged 15) are in the household of Maralin Simmance age 80 and Ann Simmance aged 15. In 1841 anyone recorded as age 15 could be up to 19 years old.
There are baptisms in Barkway of a Thomas and William in 1823 and 1822 respectively sons of James and Judith
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A Judith Baker of Smith End Barley was buried in Barley in 1836 age 38. Might be James's wife.
Did the widowed James Baker then marry Sarah Ann's mother? If Sarah was baptised as Sarah Ann something else and adopted her stepfather's surname, it would explain why no baptism at the right time for a Sarah Ann Baker can be found.
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Very good points.
Good lateral thinking!
Many thanks.