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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: buttercup2009 on Wednesday 21 December 22 23:04 GMT (UK)
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Frederick Harold Terry b: Herne Hill 1899 son of Frederick William Terry emigrated two Revelstoke Canada in 1903. He joined the the Army fibbing about his age and eventually arrived in France in 1917 - not for long he sprained his ankle and was back in England. He married Betsy Jones b: 1899 in 1919 said she was from Brighton and in an Industrial School in 1911. Fredericks army papers are long and confusing but he was also called Jack and that is the name he used when the married her. He continued to call himself John H Terry and was posted back to Canada in 1920. He gave his address as Detroit USA but I can find no evidence of him actually living there. Betsy arrived in Canada with a 2 1/2 year old son George in 1920. After this I cannot find either of them although I found a George Terry died in 1924 no age given in Montreal. John arrived in USA in the early 1950's and married a woman called Alice Marie Chone in West Palm Beach Floida in 1951. My query is what happened to Betsy and George? I can find no trace of her in Canada I would be most grateful if anyone can find more than I have on her, I do know quite a bit about Frederick/John/Jack and his family - he and his wife died in the 1980's in Florida. One clue is that on a border crossing he gives the name of Harry Jones and I wondered if there was a connection to Betsy but I can't see what it is as he's from Pennsylvania. Thanks for listening :) :)
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George Terry who died in 1924 Montreal - was a 59 year old man, so not your little George.
The Gazette Montreal, Quebec, Canada
21 Jan 1924, Mon • Page 4
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/115002956/the-gazette/
Sandra
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Thank you Sandra - Merry Christmas :)
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Nothing yet on Betsy and George :-\
Merry Christmas to you and your.
Sandra :)
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Is little George technically a Jones? He would have been born 1917 or 1918, and Betsy didn't marry John/Fred/etc until 1919? I'm just wondering if Betsy came to Canada, and hubby was no where to be found, perhaps she went back to England and went back to Jones?
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Sandra, there is an obit for Fred/John/etc's father that apparently mentions a son, Fred.
Are you able to see this:
Name: Frederick William Terry
Gender: Male
Death Age: 83
Birth Date: abt 1872
Birth Place: England
Residence Place: West Fourteenth
Death Date: Abt 1955
Obituary Date: 16 Mar 1955
Obituary Place: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Newspaper Title: The Vancouver News-Herald
Spouse: Alice
Child: Dorothy Harding
Chris
Fred
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If Betsy arrived in Canada 1920 & George was 2 & a half - he was born before the marriage & would have the surname Jones.
EDIT - sorry - didn’t see reply 4 which has made the same point
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Yes, here they are :- (I thik they were in Toronto in 1921 - sorry have to go out)
The Vancouver Sun
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
15 Mar 1955, Tue • Page 30
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/115003822/the-vancouver-sun/
The Vancouver News-Herald
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
16 Mar 1955, Wed • Page 13
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/115003839/the-vancouver-news-herald/
marriage - https://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Image/Genealogy/49b4fb29-3e05-4096-bd03-14de48fd14f3
Death certificate - https://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Image/Genealogy/637d6be4-faed-482c-8ba5-7a26502345f7
Informant daughter Dorothy Harding.
Sandra
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1921 2 Sundle Ave York Townshiop
Frederick Terry 43 Head
Alice Terry 42 Wife
Frederick Terry 23 Son
Sandra
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1921 2 Sundle Ave York Townshiop
Frederick Terry 43 Head
Alice Terry 42 Wife
Frederick Terry 23 Son
That must be another Fred/Alice?
I think this is them in 1921:
Frederick Terry
Age: 49
Birth Year: abt 1872
Birth Place: England
Year of Immigration: 1903
Residence Date: 1 Jun 1921
Residence: 863 12th Ave E , Vancouver
Occupation, Bank messenger
Wife Alice
No other family with them.
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I don't believe this is them - the names are wrong - Frederick Harold now calling himself Jack but also John's father Frederick William b: 1871 did remarry and Alice Armstrong and he worked at a bank as a Clerk after leaving Revelstoke where his wife died in 1903.
1921 2 Sundle Ave York Townshiop
Frederick Terry 43 Head
Alice Terry 42 Wife
Frederick Terry 23 Son
Sandra
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This is his father Frederick William who married Alice Armstrong after his wife died in Revelstoke in 1907 not 1903 the year of their immigration - thank you
I don't believe this is them - the names are wrong - Frederick Harold now calling himself Jack but also John's father Frederick William b: 1871 did remarry and Alice Armstrong and he worked at a bank as a Clerk after leaving Revelstoke where his wife died in 1903.
1921 2 Sundle Ave York Townshiop
Frederick Terry 43 Head
Alice Terry 42 Wife
Frederick Terry 23 Son
Sandra
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This is Frederick Harold's father - he married Alice Armstrong. Frederick H now known as John H Terry also married an Alice Chone in Florida. She was from France and married before also. They died in Florida in the 1980's.
1921 2 Sundle Ave York Townshiop
Frederick Terry 43 Head
Alice Terry 42 Wife
Frederick Terry 23 Son
Sandra
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That is Frederick/Jack/John Harold's father - thank you
1921 2 Sundle Ave York Townshiop
Frederick Terry 43 Head
Alice Terry 42 Wife
Frederick Terry 23 Son
That must be another Fred/Alice?
I think this is them in 1921:
Frederick Terry
Age: 49
Birth Year: abt 1872
Birth Place: England
Year of Immigration: 1903
Residence Date: 1 Jun 1921
Residence: 863 12th Ave E , Vancouver
Occupation, Bank messenger
Wife Alice
No other family with them.
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This is their father Frederick William - thank you
Sandra, there is an obit for Fred/John/etc's father that apparently mentions a son, Fred.
Are you able to see this:
Name: Frederick William Terry
Gender: Male
Death Age: 83
Birth Date: abt 1872
Birth Place: England
Residence Place: West Fourteenth
Death Date: Abt 1955
Obituary Date: 16 Mar 1955
Obituary Place: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Newspaper Title: The Vancouver News-Herald
Spouse: Alice
Child: Dorothy Harding
Chris
Fred
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There is a George Jones born in Cuckfield (just outside Brighton) and an area Betsy seems to be from (Traveller family) in 1918 maiden name and birth name Jones. It's still possible the child is Fred/John/Jack's as he was posted in this area, Seaford, Eastbourne in Sussex. Oddly there is a George H Terry registered in 1923 in Brighton maiden name Jones which threw me I may get the certificate. Would that legitimise him they were travelling under the name Terry to Canada.
Is little George technically a Jones? He would have been born 1917 or 1918, and Betsy didn't marry John/Fred/etc until 1919? I'm just wondering if Betsy came to Canada, and hubby was no where to be found, perhaps she went back to England and went back to Jones?
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The Vancouver Sun
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
11 Aug 1937, Wed • Page 20
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/115004747/obituary-for-alice-terry/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01s00/
FIND A GRAVE
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/238888213/alice-terry
Sandra
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Thank you Sandra - this is Frederick William Terry's second wife, apparent she was out and collapsed in the street with a heart attack! She was Alice Armstrong from Ireland not to be confused with his son Frederick H/John/Jack's second wife, also Alice (Chone) they married in West Palm Beach Florida in 1951. So has Betsy died or divorced and where is George. I have sent for their marriage certificate in Brighton in 1919 calling himself Jack.
The Vancouver Sun
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
11 Aug 1937, Wed • Page 20
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/115004747/obituary-for-alice-terry/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01s00/
FIND A GRAVE
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/238888213/alice-terry
Sandra
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…One clue is that on a border crossing he gives the name of Harry Jones and I wondered if there was a connection to Betsy but I can't see what it is as he's from Pennsylvania...
What is the date of the border crossing, please? I haven’t found it on Anc*try.
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I thought it was a border crossing in 1949 Port of Trout River N Y calling himself John Harold and yes the name is Harry Jones in Coral Gables Florida from Pennsylvania - there may be a connection to Detroit which is where John Harold has said he was going to in 1920 but I see no evidence of him actually there - I think his wages might have been going there to the G.P.O. according to his army documents! Can\t think why?
…One clue is that on a border crossing he gives the name of Harry Jones and I wondered if there was a connection to Betsy but I can't see what it is as he's from Pennsylvania...
What is the date of the border crossing, please? I haven’t found it on Anc*try.
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Thank you. I will have a look in a minute.
Have you seen his naturalization papers? He stated his birthplace was Revelstoke, B.C., Canada. (But, born on March 4, 1898.)
Added: Declaration of Intent dob was 4 March 1899.
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Hmmm, I don’t see the document on Anc*try. :-\
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Yes I have - his birthdate varies over the years he was very young when his mum died and it should be 1899 but the actual date and month is always the same. He was born in Herne Hill London and I also see that he says he is Irish! His brother Christopher was born in Revelstoke but he and his sisters immigrated with Mum in 1903. He and his sisters were on a ship in 1903 with Agnes their mother, she is my relative. She died of miscarriage in 1907 the same year two of her sisters were making their way out to Revelstoke - five sisters ended up out there.
Thank you. I will have a look in a minute.
Have you seen his naturalization papers? He stated his birthplace was Revelstoke, B.C., Canada. (But, born on March 4, 1898.)
Added: Declaration of Intent dob was 4 March 1899.
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I tried to put it on and it won't accept the file size, I'm not good at links
Hmmm, I don’t see the document on Anc*try. :-\
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Just found this on Familysearch site;
Peter William Terry
Event Type Death
Event Date 22 Jun 1976
Event Place New Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Sex Male
Age 56
Marital Status Married
Birth Date 14 May 1920
Birth Year (Estimated) 1920
Birthplace Montreal, Quebec
Father's Name John Terry
Mother's Name Betsy Jones
Spouse's Name Gladys Mary Morrish
So Peter must be George's brother, will follow this lead - thank you for your help :)
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Poor Agnes, what a sad story. :'(. Thank you for the details, though.
If it hasn’t already been mentioned, John and Jack are interchangeable names. How he ended up choosing John/Jack is a mystery but perhaps he stopped using Frederick to differentiate himself from his father? Could he have had two middle names, one being John/Jack?
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Just found this on Familysearch site;
Peter William Terry
Event Type Death
Event Date 22 Jun 1976
Event Place New Westminster, British Columbia, Canada
Sex Male
Age 56
Marital Status Married
Birth Date 14 May 1920
Birth Year (Estimated) 1920
Birthplace Montreal, Quebec
Father's Name John Terry
Mother's Name Betsy Jones
Spouse's Name Gladys Mary Morrish
So Peter must be George's brother, will follow this lead - thank you for your help :)
Excellent find!
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Peter William Terry, according to his death record, was born in Quebec.
https://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Image/Genealogy/0bf48333-ef2b-4a96-b725-960d543c6a8e
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Yes my Grandfather was Jack. It might be because of his father Frederick it seems to have happened in the army and it's possible they confused his F for a J and he just went along with it. He does use the H for Harold though and that continues. And now I seem to have found a brother for George in Canada - see below :)
Poor Agnes, what a sad story. :'(. Thank you for the details, though.
If it hasn’t already been mentioned, John and Jack are interchangeable names. How he ended up choosing John/Jack is a mystery but perhaps he stopped using Frederick to differentiate himself from his father? Could he have had two middle names, one being John/Jack?
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Thank you Lisa that's really helpful but I can't seem to save it as a Jpeg - :) sorry to be dim :)
Peter William Terry, according to his death record, was born in Quebec.
https://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Image/Genealogy/0bf48333-ef2b-4a96-b725-960d543c6a8e
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Sorry, I didn’t post it. bbart found the record.
They don’t come any dimmer than me (regarding technology) - maybe someone else can help?
I haven’t found the family in Montreal yet, but I’m still looking.
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Bless - it's exciting because there's a son :) :)
Sorry, I didn’t post it. bbart found the record.
They don’t come any dimmer than me (regarding technology) - maybe someone else can help?
I haven’t found the family in Montreal yet, but I’m still looking.
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Sorry to sidetrack, but I see you have Staplehurst from Sussex. Your ancestors weren’t from the Shipley area in the late 1700s/early- to mid-1800s were they? The name seems so familiar.
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They were from the Fletching/Maresfield area in Sussex :)
Sorry to sidetrack, but I see you have Staplehurst from Sussex. Your ancestors weren’t from the Shipley area in the late 1700s/early- to mid-1800s were they? The name seems so familiar.
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They were from the Fletching/Maresfield area in Sussex :)
Sorry to sidetrack, but I see you have Staplehurst from Sussex. Your ancestors weren’t from the Shipley area in the late 1700s/early- to mid-1800s were they? The name seems so familiar.
Thank you. Then not from my area of Shipley, Horsham, Itchingfield where my Vaus, etc. ancestors roamed. Don’t know why Staplehurst seems to ring a bell.
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It's not that far, Shipley is West Sussex and Fletching is East Sussex - Staplehurst is also a place name and just over there border in Kent - they likely took the name from there way back :) :)
They were from the Fletching/Maresfield area in Sussex :)
Sorry to sidetrack, but I see you have Staplehurst from Sussex. Your ancestors weren’t from the Shipley area in the late 1700s/early- to mid-1800s were they? The name seems so familiar.
Thank you. Then not from my area of Shipley, Horsham, Itchingfield where my Vaus, etc. ancestors roamed. Don’t know why Staplehurst seems to ring a bell.
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It's not that far, Shipley is West Sussex and Fletching is East Sussex - Staplehurst is also a place name and just over there border in Kent - they likely took the name from there way back :) :)
Maybe that’s it - maybe I saw the place name on one of the vital records as I was looking for my ancestors.
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Jack-John is not in the 1921 Montreal Directory
https://numerique.banq.qc.ca/patrimoine/details/52327/3653226?docsearchtext=1921%20Montreal%20directory
It takes a moment to load the page, then you have to type 63 to get to the page that has Terrys (it is on directory page 1607).
I haven’t checked Quebec directories for a few years. I believe there was a different directory for the outskirts of Montreal.
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I have been sifting through Fred/John/etc's military records.
https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B9573-S048
The last address for wife Betty [sic] as next of kin, was GPO Detroit, Michigan, and that was dated 24 Dec 1919.
However, Fred/John/etc was discharged in Jan 2020, to a hospital in Quebec, for treatment.
Betsy must have gone from Michigan to Quebec to be near him, and (assuming Peter is hers, as there are a LOT of Terry's), had the baby in Quebec. Perhaps there is a border crossing?
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I have been sifting through Fred/John/etc's military records.
https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B9573-S048
The last address for wife Betty [sic] as next of kin, was GPO Detroit, Michigan, and that was dated 24 Dec 1919.
However, Fred/John/etc was discharged in Jan 2020, to a hospital in Quebec, for treatment.
Betsy must have gone from Michigan to Quebec to be near him, and (assuming Peter is hers, as there are a LOT of Terry's), had the baby in Quebec. Perhaps there is a border crossing?
We have a problem... Betsy and toddler George passenger record is March 1920.
So who is wife "Betty" in Detroit......
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I have been sifting through Fred/John/etc's military records.
https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B9573-S048
The last address for wife Betty [sic] as next of kin, was GPO Detroit, Michigan, and that was dated 24 Dec 1919.
However, Fred/John/etc was discharged in Jan 2020, to a hospital in Quebec, for treatment.
Betsy must have gone from Michigan to Quebec to be near him, and (assuming Peter is hers, as there are a LOT of Terry's), had the baby in Quebec. Perhaps there is a border crossing?
We have a problem... Betsy and toddler George passenger record is March 1920.
So who is wife "Betty" in Detroit......
I originally wondered about there possibly being two men with similar details, but aren’t the births always 4 March 1898/1899?
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Peter William Terry - The Province
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
24 Jun 1976, Thu • Page 37
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/115023350/the-province/
Sandra
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I have been sifting through Fred/John/etc's military records.
https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B9573-S048
The last address for wife Betty [sic] as next of kin, was GPO Detroit, Michigan, and that was dated 24 Dec 1919.
However, Fred/John/etc was discharged in Jan 2020, to a hospital in Quebec, for treatment.
Betsy must have gone from Michigan to Quebec to be near him, and (assuming Peter is hers, as there are a LOT of Terry's), had the baby in Quebec. Perhaps there is a border crossing?
We have a problem... Betsy and toddler George passenger record is March 1920.
So who is wife "Betty" in Detroit......
I wonder if any family members were in Detroit, ahead of Betsy’s North American arrival? Could they have set up her GPO address, in anticipation of John Jack’s and Betsy’s move?
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I think the Detroit address is a bit of a red herring - I think they may have intended to go there and when John Terry went to florida in 1949 he mentions a Harry Jones who I believe maybe this contact in Detroit. I can find no evidence of them being there and she was in an Industrial School in Rottingdean in 1911 - they married in 1919 in Brighton Sussex and she had George there in 1917/18. I can't see a time when she would have been in Detroit, Betty may have been misspelt. She is Betsy on her second son Peter William born in 1920 in Montreal. He mentions in some of that army paperwork that he is a machinist so I wondered if he may have secured an offer of work in Detroit after his discharge? I am still looking for both Betsy Jones/Terry and George Jones/Terry but I cant see them anywhere. I think Betsy was in Canada to meet him in 1920 and they seem to have ended up in Montreal where the second son was born and she was most likely pregnant on arrival. I am waiting for the MC for them and I may send for a BC for George. A possible connection to Detroit may be Harry Jones from Pennsylvania living in Coral Gables Florida and who John was going too in 1949.
I have been sifting through Fred/John/etc's military records.
https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B9573-S048
The last address for wife Betty [sic] as next of kin, was GPO Detroit, Michigan, and that was dated 24 Dec 1919.
However, Fred/John/etc was discharged in Jan 2020, to a hospital in Quebec, for treatment.
Betsy must have gone from Michigan to Quebec to be near him, and (assuming Peter is hers, as there are a LOT of Terry's), had the baby in Quebec. Perhaps there is a border crossing?
We have a problem... Betsy and toddler George passenger record is March 1920.
So who is wife "Betty" in Detroit......
I wonder if any family members were in Detroit, ahead of Betsy’s North American arrival? Could they have set up her GPO address, in anticipation of John Jack’s and Betsy’s move?