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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Duneane on Wednesday 21 December 22 15:00 GMT (UK)
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I believe that my Great Grandmother (Mary Greer) may have been baptised at Holy Name, Chorlton on Medlock in 1889. She was born abt 1862 in Northern Ireland, but I think she converted to Roman Catholicism in adulthood.
Can anybody tell me how I can access any baptismal records that may exist, that would include this event?
Thank you.
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Maria Greer, born 1st August 1862, was baptised on 25th October 1889 at Holy Name, Lancashire, the daughter of Herberti Greer and Mariae Walpole.
Names are latinised, which is perhaps why you could not find her. No image, I'm afraid, but the transcript is on FindMyPast.
Queenie :)
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Thanks for the help!
I was hoping for Michael as her father… is there any more info, like place of birth, or address?
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Nope, I included everything on the transcription.
Where did you get the name Michael from? Was it the name she gave for her father on her marriage record?
Queenie :)
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Yes. She married Thomas Nixon at Salford Cathedral in 1889 and gives her father as Michael (Michaelis). I know that some of her family were Church of Ireland and that some were baptised as RC later in life. I thought this was a good guess and maybe she was baptised just before she married.
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Would you like some assistance with your search? If you do, I have a few questions:
I know that some of her family were Church of Ireland and that some were baptised as RC later in life.
Can you expand on this? What do you mean by "her family"? Her siblings? Can you provide more information on these family members? Did they also move from Ireland to the Lancashire area?
Yes. She married Thomas Nixon at Salford Cathedral in 1889 and gives her father as Michael (Michaelis).
Who were the witnesses to her marriage?
Also, am I right in thinking she had 2 children: Thomas (1890) and Ellen (1898) and that her husband Thomas was a hairdresser?
Queenie :)
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Mary Ann Greer married Thomas Nixon at Salford Cathedral on 9th July, 1889. Witnesses were Augustino Donohue and Sophia Hyndman. Mary Ann’s parents were Michael and Mary Greer.
We think Mary Ann was born about 1864 in Co Antrim, based on census ages. Her mother married Andrew Hyndman in the Church of Ireland church of St Anne’s, Belfast in 1870 and they had further children who were step-siblings to my Mary Ann. One of them was Sophia Hyndman, the witness above, who married Austin Donohoe the other witness.
The marriage of her mother to Andrew Hyndman states that she was a Spinster not a Widow - so she obviously wasn’t married to Michael Greer. The odd thing, is that she is also a Greer - so they either shared the surname or my Mary Ann was a product of an incestuous relationship?
Mary Greer (the mother) also states on her marriage that her father was Robert.
As far as I know, the step-siblings (Hyndman) were born in Co Antrim and Salford.
Mary Ann married Thomas Nixon a hairdresser from Preston and they had my Grandmother Ellen in 1898… but I’m not aware that she had a brother.
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Looking into it further, it looks like Thomas Jr. died as an infant, so it makes sense that you were unaware of his existence.
His birth:
NIXON, THOMAS GREER
GRO Reference: 1890 D Quarter in SALFORD Volume 08D Page 99
Most likely, his death:
NIXON, THOMAS 0
GRO Reference: 1890 D Quarter in SALFORD Volume 08D Page 93
On reading your reply, I feel that I have come up with a theory:
Mary Greer gives birth to an illegitimate daughter, Mary Ann Greer, sometime around 1864. She later marries Andrew Hyndman in 1870 and, having not been married previously, she correctly describes herself as spinster.
When Mary Ann marries, the shame and stigma around illegitimacy (especially in the Catholic community) leads her to making up a father called "Michael Greer." It is entirely possible that Mary Ann grew up knowing that her biological father's forename was Michael, but she added Greer so it matched up with her surname.
This to me seems a possible explanation of the "spinster" on the marriage certificate and the shared Greer surname. I have to say, people could be wonderfully imaginative when it came to disguising illegitimacy in the 19th century. My great-great-grandfather was registered under the most fanciful reduplicated name (Laurance John Laurance - allegedly after his father), with his father's occupation equally imaginative (teacher of foreign languages). His mother had 2 children out of wedlock, and she registered both with this imaginary father. She left the family soon after the birth of her second child and Laurance was raised by a relative (I discovered his adoptive mother was a relative through DNA). I spent many hours on a wild goose chase after this father, and have come to the conclusion that he was not real.
Whilst there will always be a shred of doubt around whether the father was in fact real, it was through the DNA test that I have 99% confirmed that he wasn't. I tested my mother (Laurance's great-granddaughter) and received not a single Laurance match.
My theory could be completely wrong, so feel free to ignore my rambling response, but if you are truly interested in solving this puzzle, might it be worth testing your DNA? If you have a living parent, who is a generation closer, that would be even better. If you receive a load of Northern Irish matches around the right area that don't seem to fit into any other branch of your tree, it could be through Mary Ann's father.
Queenie :)
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Thanks for your scenario - I do tend to agree with it. Unfortunately, most of my family originate in Co Antrim, so we have lots of green DNA from that area.
Can you tell me where you got the Greer reference on Thomas’s birth please? The index on Ancestry shows him, but no Mothers maiden name…
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The civil birth and death registration index can be searched on the General Register Office website:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ (https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/)
You have to make an account to search the index; searches are completely free, but you can also order the particular certificate through the website if you would like to do so.
Click the link above, select Order certificates online and you will be directed to log in or create an account. After you have created an account, you can 'Search the GRO indexes' and enter all the relevant information.
Queenie :)
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The baptism of Thomas Nixon at Salford Cathedral is here https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
Sophia Hyndman is his Godmother.
You can search by place/church but I just go to ‘search’ in left hand column, then you will see ‘click’ highlighted in the information.
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The baptism of Thomas Nixon at Salford Cathedral is here https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
Sophia Hyndman is his Godmother.
You can search by place/church but I just go to ‘search’ in left hand column, then you will see ‘click’ highlighted in the information.
Good find. I don't usually research in this area, so I'm not very well acquainted with what is available outside the main genealogy sites.
Queenie :)
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That’s fantastic! Thank you both for all your help.
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You have the marriage of Andrew Hyndman and Mary Greer - 1870
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1870/11380/8178553.pdf
I found Sophia’s birth 1871 - her mother noted as Mary Corry :-\
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03277/2200962.pdf
I have tried to find any reason for Mary being ‘Corry’ but can’t find anything useful.
I then searched for Andrew’s birth and realised he must have been born before Mary married Andrew Hyndman if census ages are correct.
At last - here he is - ‘unknown Greer’
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03399/2246752.pdf
If you look the first entry, with father Andrew Hyndman has been crossed through so presumably they were together but not married.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03399/2246752.pdf
It doesn’t help with the ‘Corry’ name on Sophia’s record which might be an error, perhaps,
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Once more - thanks very much for your help.