RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: redmeagher on Sunday 18 December 22 15:03 GMT (UK)
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I'm looking for the death records, but honestly I'd be glad for any life records, relating to Martin Fitzpatrick.
The only information I have comes from my grandma (he's her great-uncle), which is that he emigrated to Australia before her mum was born in 1897, that he lived in a boarding house with a woman until his death, and that he died unmarried and without children. The woman he lived with sent his watch back home after his death, so presumably she was able to register his death with some of the relevant family information.
He also visited Ireland around 1902 when my great-grandma was five years old, as he was her godfather.
From my own research - he was likely born between 1855 and 1867 in County Limerick, Ireland. He's referenced in his parents' obituary (they died in an accident) as they left behind three children, and I've found birth records for their other two children. His parents were Thadeus/Thomas/Timothy Fitzpatrick, a shoemaker, and Catherine Fitzpatrick (nee Hanifan). His siblings were John (b. 1857) and Mary (b. 1863).
I think he either immigrated in 1876 on the Lochlee to Queensland, or in 1884 on the Warwick to Sydney. He may have died in 1940, as I found a record of a Martin Fitzpatrick buried in Rookwood Catholic Cemetery, Sydney, who was about 81 years old (b. c. 1859), but there's no headstone so I'm not entirely certain.
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Doesn't help with determining whether he is your Martin, however there is this obituary for the one who died in 1940
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/106423091
and a death notice, someone must have placed the notice.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/17701224
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When did the parents die......date of the obituary?
Did sister Mary marry, and what married name. There might be an enquiry in a newspaper after Martin...ie...."sister Mary **** anxious to hear from you"
What town in Limerick did they live in?
Did older brother John become a shoemaker?........and might be the trade of Martin?
It sounds as though the story has been much handled over the years. It might be worth considering that he emigrated to/ended up in New Zealand.
For stories of family going out to the colonies, and not much contact after, NZ and Australia are often mixed up in the repeating of the story.
Can you give all the wording in the obituary.
Below...do you mean that you have Martin's name in a baptism record....when and where?
"He also visited Ireland around 1902 when my great-grandma was five years old, as he was her godfather."
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Also found a reference of the Martin Fitzpatrick who died 16 Nov 1940, Deceased Estate Index
https://mhnsw.au/indexes/deceased-estates/deceased-estates-index/
Retired Hospital Attendant
Date of Grant 13 Dec 1940
Value $375
( He's indexed as Mertin, not Martin)
Noting, that the NSW BMD Indexes for this man's death doesn't have a name of either parent
Cheers
AMBLY
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As he was a hospital attendant, this is probably the Martin FITZPATRICK who died in 1940 - on the 1913 electoral roll at 142 Weston Road, Rozelle (attendant). He appears to be living there alone - I have checked the 1913 roll for that address - so not in a boarding house at this time. Though the obituary does he moved to Stanmore 15 years previous.
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Martin FITZPATRICK at 16 Percival Rd, Annandale (actually this is closer to Stanmore) on the 1934 electoral roll, hospital attendant. This is the same address on his death notice. However, again, I can't see anyone else at this address?
Modified to add:
Actually there is a Thomas Joseph WALSH and Nellie WALSH at this address in 1933, 1935, 1937 and 1943.
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That's great Maddys52 ;D You found him ( the 1940 man)!
I'd say he was more likely boarding AT the the 16 Percival address, which is not necessarily saying the address is a Boarding House per se. Sounds like he was very much involved with the Church, so it could have been an address associated with the Rozelle Church or a member of the Rozelle congregation.
Hi Landlady, man, may have found amongst his belongings, his family address in Ireland to send watch to but had not known or found his parents names for the death cert?
Cheers
AMBLY
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For a bit of rounding off ( and wondering if any family connection)
Thomas and Nellie Walsh were siblings who died within 2 days of each other in 1952:
Thomas Walsh, d 27 Jan 1952 at 16 Percival Road, Stanmore, beloved brother of Mary, Helena, Annie and Agnes, aged 81
Helena Walsh, d 29 Jan 1952 at 16 Percival Road, Stanmore, beloved sister of Thomas (deceased), Mary, Annie and Agnes.
The NSW BMD gives their parents as John & Johanna
It seems the 16 Percival address had long been the family residence:
In 1909, on 2 Aug died Mrs Johanna WALSH of 16 Percival Road. She was the sister of of the late Rev. J. J Garvey
Cheers
AMBLY
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No mention of where he was in Ireland. Lots of Fitzpatricks in Co Donegal.
The Irish end may ahve some clues.
cheers
Jack Gee
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Can you expand this please -
"He also visited Ireland around 1902 when my great-grandma was five years old, as he was her godfather."
Assuming that your great grandmother was not baptised as a five year old, I read this to mean that Martin FITZPATRICK was present on the occasion of the baptism.....which happened where and when?
Martin FITZPATRICK left Ireland after this time (of the baptism) and returned to Ireland about 1902 when your great grandmother was five years old.
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In 1909, on 2 Aug died Mrs Johanna WALSH of 16 Percival Road. She was the sister of of the late Rev. J. J Garvey
For interest, Fr James Joseph GARVEY was also from Limerick. Not suggesting there was any family relationship, but possibly part of the reason why Martin FITZPATRICK was living with the WALSH siblings. I know Limerick is a big place with a large population and many came to Oz. ;) Or perhaps he just wanted to live with a couple of good Catholics.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/111172665
(If this is the right Martin.)
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When did the parents die......date of the obituary?
Did sister Mary marry, and what married name. There might be an enquiry in a newspaper after Martin...ie...."sister Mary **** anxious to hear from you"
What town in Limerick did they live in?
Did older brother John become a shoemaker?........and might be the trade of Martin? [...]
Below...do you mean that you have Martin's name in a baptism record....when and where?
"He also visited Ireland around 1902 when my great-grandma was five years old, as he was her godfather."
His parents died in January 1867 - they drowned in an accident that made a lot of the newspapers, sorry for not clarifying that bit! There's not a traditional obituary for them because of that, just articles on their deaths and subsequent inquest, especially as Catherine was heavily pregnant at the time. I'll include the relevant bit of one of the articles here, I can PM you the rest if you want.
On Saturday night a man named Thomas Fitzpatrick, a shoemaker, residing in Knockbrack, in this County, along with his wife, was accidentally drowned in Canal Lock [...] The deceased leaves three children unprovided for.
They lived in Knockbrack at the time of their deaths, but John and Mary both move a lot between several neighbouring areas - Annacotty, Annaholty, Lisnagry, Richhill, Kishiquirke, Mountshannon. Castleconnell also shows up a lot as all of those towns/villages were in that district.
Mary married Patrick Murphy, RIC, in 1895 and lived in Tipperary afterwards, while John (my grandma's grandad) became a school-teacher. Their relatives apparently sold off the family land after their parents' death so John could train at a Jesuit school - not sure if John is older or not.
Assuming that your great grandmother was not baptised as a five year old, I read this to mean that Martin FITZPATRICK was present on the occasion of the baptism.....which happened where and when?
Martin FITZPATRICK left Ireland after this time (of the baptism) and returned to Ireland about 1902 when your great grandmother was five years old.
Weirdly no, Martin Fitzpatrick isn't on her baptismal record, but my grandma is certain he was her godfather. I've assumed that it was a matter of inconvenient timing and he was an extra godfather - we've had similar things happen in my generation. My great-grandma's (Mary Kathleen Fitzpatrick) godparents on her baptism were Patrick and Mary Ryan, who were maternal relatives of hers.
No mention of where he was in Ireland. Lots of Fitzpatricks in Co Donegal.
The Irish end may ahve some clues.
cheers
Jack Gee
Their family is firmly from Co. Limerick - there's not many other Fitzpatricks in Limerick in the 1800s, which for the most part has made things a lot easier for me. I've got a pretty good idea of what happened to everyone on that side aside from Martin and, to a lesser extent, his parents (but that's normal for pre-Famine records).
That's great Maddys52 ;D You found him ( the 1940 man)!
I'd say he was more likely boarding AT the the 16 Percival address, which is not necessarily saying the address is a Boarding House per se. Sounds like he was very much involved with the Church, so it could have been an address associated with the Rozelle Church or a member of the Rozelle congregation.
Hi Landlady, man, may have found amongst his belongings, his family address in Ireland to send watch to but had not known or found his parents names for the death cert?
Cheers
AMBLY
That's definitely a possibility! The reason why I listed so many names for their father is because John and Mary tend to use Thomas and Timothy respectively for him, but the newspaper articles of his death use Thomas or Thadeus.
I'll ask my grandma if she knew whether he was involved with the Church or not - I wouldn't be surprised if he was, especially as an unmarried and childless man. Regardless of whether he died in 1937 or 1940, she would've only been a young child, although her story about what happened when he died makes me think 1940 is the more likely one. It sounded a lot like she was talking about something she personally remembered, but I'll double-check with her.
And thank you to everyone so far! I've been really struggling with the lack of census records to consult, so this has been very helpful. I've ordered the death certificate of the Martin who died in 1940 to have a better look - as I understand, Australian death certificates usually include how long someone had lived in Australia for?
I also forgot to mention that John named one of his sons after Martin in 1905, which makes me wonder if that's when he visited instead. Also - looks like there were Garveys in Annaholty, so the connection to Rev. Garvey is very possible.
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There is also this death of a Martin FITZPATRICK in 1924 at Bathurst. Whilst the NSW BDM index has his parents as James and Katherine, his obituary says he was 68 (so born c1856) a native of Ireland, living alone with no relatives in the country. (Information on a death certificate is only as accurate as the informant knew.)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/159127814
I think given the story of boarding with the woman who sent the watch back to Ireland that this is probably not your Martin, but just wanted to give another option.
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A couple of other Martin FITZPATRICKs on the NSW BDM index (died 1917 and 1920) can be discounted as they had wives and families.
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Hi,
I was wondering could you have had the father’s name wrong, as I did a search on a subscription I have and I have maybe a possible baptism date for Martin Fitzpatrick who was baptised on 15th of June 1856, parents Jas Fitzpatrick and Cathe Fitzgerald, Lisnagry and sponsors were
William and Judy Walsh.
https://registers.nil.ie//registers/vtls000634641#page/1/mode/1up
There was one other baptism for Martin Fitzpatrick on 6th of November 1860.
Parents Ml. Fitzpatrick and Honor Murphy,
St. Michael’s Parish, Limerick City.
https://register.nil.ie//registers/vtls000635029#page/1/mode/1up
Mollie.26
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Also meant to add that there is a probate packet for the Martin FITZPATRICK who died in 1940. Sometimes these contain useful information including wills.
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/ADLIB_RNSW112471865
Unfortunately RootsChatter Rosball who used to volunteer photographing these documents for other members has moved away and can no longer do so. You can purchase a copy, but they are quite pricey.
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The more handling that family stories go through, the more likely that there are variations etc.
How have you come by the information that you are giving the forum about......... the godfather status......the watch.....the visit to Ireland by Martin FITZPATRICK?
"The only information I have comes from my grandma "
How did the information get from grandmother to you?....directly, when you spoke with her?......indirectly through the person grandmother spoke to?
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The more handling that family stories go through, the more likely that there are variations etc.
How have you come by the information that you are giving the forum about......... the godfather status......the watch.....the visit to Ireland by Martin FITZPATRICK?
"The only information I have comes from my grandma "
How did the information get from grandmother to you?....directly, when you spoke with her?......indirectly through the person grandmother spoke to?
I directly spoke to my grandma - she's in her 80s and very clear-minded. She's really interested in the research I've been doing too, so she's been very forthcoming with stories about her family to help my research.
She lives in Ireland while I currently live in the UK (spent the last year in Ireland though), but I'm going to visit her again just after Christmas. Current plan is to ask her a few more questions about Martin to see if I can narrow the options down.
Also meant to add that there is a probate packet for the Martin FITZPATRICK who died in 1940. Sometimes these contain useful information including wills.
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/ADLIB_RNSW112471865
Unfortunately RootsChatter Rosball who used to volunteer photographing these documents for other members has moved away and can no longer do so. You can purchase a copy, but they are quite pricey.
Thanks for the heads up - I just found a notification of his probate in the newspapers (don't have the link on me, I'll post it in the morning) with a James O'Sullivan asking for creditors to come forward.
Unfortunately it didn't have any further details, so I'll either wait for a look up offer or save up to pay for a copy.
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"His parents were Thadeus/Thomas/Timothy Fitzpatrick, a shoemaker, and Catherine Fitzpatrick (nee Hanifan)."
When and where did this couple marry?
In all the newspaper accounts of the death of this couple, 1867 -
What names do you see in the newspaper articles for the children?
What ages do you see in the newspaper articles for the children?
What do you see in the newspaper articles to indicate the number of children left as orphans at 1867?
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Thanks for the heads up - I just found a notification of his probate in the newspapers (don't have the link on me, I'll post it in the morning) with a James O'Sullivan asking for creditors to come forward.
Unfortunately it didn't have any further details, so I'll either wait for a look up offer or save up to pay for a copy.
The news item I think you are mentioning here was for the death of a man in 1937 in Melbourne.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/11111832
Sue
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Also meant to add that there is a probate packet for the Martin FITZPATRICK who died in 1940. Sometimes these contain useful information including wills.
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/ADLIB_RNSW112471865
Unfortunately RootsChatter Rosball who used to volunteer photographing these documents for other members has moved away and can no longer do so. You can purchase a copy, but they are quite pricey.
Find my past has a copy of the will he was living at Stanmore near Sydney,a retired Hospital Attendant devised whole of the estate to Neillie WALSH. Probate was granted to Thomas Joseph WALSH.
Does that help?
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Further to Ambly's note on Johanna, this obituary states her husband John WALSH was a native of Limerick
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/105189709
Sue
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A couple more snips for interest.
The Walsh family were at Bridge Road Glebe in 1902
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/111071708
Father James Joseph GARVEY was born in Limerick in 1840. He came to Australia at the age of 23. Here is his 1885 obituary
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/170308506
Sue
ADDING. Very likely his arrival
From Melbourne then arriving NSW
Reverend Mr GARVEY
Port of Departure Melbourne
Arrival Sydney, New South Wales
Arrival Date 29 Feb 1864
Vessel Wonga Wonga
News clip shipping passenger list.Vessel Wonga Wonga
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/60583215
He took his first posting at Tamworth
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The news item I think you are mentioning here was for the death of a man in 1937 in Melbourne.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/11111832
The Martin FITZPATRICK who died in 1937 in Victoria, Camberwell East was 82. The index has his parents as Thomas and Mary, born Queens County.
His death notice, no family mentioned
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/244557376
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Just to discount him further, trying to work out whether this Martin FITZPATRICK (who died 1937) lived alone: he lived at 37 Tribe St, South Melbourne (according to the probate advertisement). At the same address in 1940 a James FITZPATRICK died.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/204391169
No mention of a Martin (deceased) among the family mentioned in this death notice.
A coincidence of names, or are they family?
Modified to add:
This death notice for Catherine FITZPATRICK in 1934, of 37 Tribe St South Melbourne, doesn't have a mention of a Martin either.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/204811250
But it seems there were a family of FITZPATRICKs at the address, so I think you can assume the Martin who died there in 1937 was probably not yours. :-\
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so the will extract I posted is not your guy?
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It quite possibly is. Unfortunately redmeagher doesn't know exactly when his Martin FITZPATRICK died, or where he was living, only that he was unmarried and "boarding" with a woman who sent a watch back to Ireland. Whilst the one with the will you found does sound very possible, it is quite a common name, so good to try to eliminate others. :)
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thanks for the reply Maddy. I hope you can solve this one. Good Luck
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When and where did this couple marry?
In all the newspaper accounts of the death of this couple, 1867 - What names do you see in the newspaper articles for the children? What ages do you see in the newspaper articles for the children? What do you see in the newspaper articles to indicate the number of children left as orphans at 1867?
The newspaper articles don't give more details about the kids - I've attached an article to this, and another's quoted at the end.
And I don't know when they married. It was before civil registration and the marriages in the parish records for Castleconnell start in 1863. I'm basing it off the fact that Thomas was 38 and Catherine was 34 when they died in 1867. I'm fairly certain they married in Castleconnell parish because Thomas's brothers also lived there, and there's no marriage for a Catherine Hanifan and a T Fitzpatrick in all of Ireland during this period. I've checked using RootsIreland, which has a comprehensive index of the parish records.
The news item I think you are mentioning here was for the death of a man in 1937 in Melbourne.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/11111832
Sue
Thanks for the correction - that's what I get for posting right before bed!
Just to discount him further, trying to work out whether this Martin FITZPATRICK (who died 1937) lived alone: he lived at 37 Tribe St, South Melbourne (according to the probate advertisement). At the same address in 1940 a James FITZPATRICK died.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/204391169
No mention of a Martin (deceased) among the family mentioned in this death notice.
A coincidence of names, or are they family?
Modified to add:
This death notice for Catherine FITZPATRICK in 1934, of 37 Tribe St South Melbourne, doesn't have a mention of a Martin either.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/204811250
But it seems there were a family of FITZPATRICKs at the address, so I think you can assume the Martin who died there in 1937 was probably not yours. :-\
That's some great detective work, thank you so much!
so the will extract I posted is not your guy?
I think the one you posted is the most likely to be him - I wonder if Nellie Walsh might have been the lady he was "boarding" with (delighted to know I'm not the only one suspicious of that!). My local library has access to FindMyPast, so I'll see if it has access to the Australian probate stuff too.
The Garvey connection is also quite interesting - having a cursory look at Castleconnell parish, a Catherine Garvey is baptised there to Thadeus Garvey and Ellen O'Donoghue in 1864. And the most likely option for Rev. Garvey himself is a James Garvey born in Hospital & Herbertstown parish in 1841.
James has two brothers named Timothy, and there's a marriage between Timothy Garvey and Ellen Donoghue in Limerick city itself in 1854. They apparently lived there until Catherine's birth and his name varies between Thady and Timothy. So it looks like Rev. James Joseph Garvey had relatives locally.
(Later edit: One obituary explicitly says he was born in Herbertstown parish and he went to the same school as John, so that's likely the connection - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/115468122)
And here's that article from the Cork Advertiser, 12th January 1867:
A MAN AND HIS WIFE DROWNED
Limerick, Monday 7th Jan. - A very painful sensation was created yesterday in the vicinity of the Canal Harbour, off Irishtown, in consequence of the bodies of a man and a woman having been found drowned in the basin at the Limerick side of the City of Dublin Company's Stores. Shortly after 7 o'clock in the morning a donkey, with car attached, were discovered in the water near to one of the flood-gates, the animal quite dead; and from a noise being heard about 8 o'clock on Saturday evening, as if a person had been drowning, it was conjectured that the body was close by.
The police of George's-quary Station, under Constable Shea proceeded to the scene, and a boat and grapplings having been procured, men proceeded to drag the bed of the canal. [...] It turned out to be that of a female named Catherine Fitzpatrick, of Knockbrack, near Annacotty, wife of Timothy Fitzpatrick, a respectable shoemaker, who, it was then ascertained, had also been missing, both having come into town, a distance of three miles and a half, upon a donkey's car on Little Christmas Eve [January 5th], to purchase necessaries for themselves and their children.
The search having been continued, the body of Timothy Fitzpatrick, the husband, was picked up in about an hour after that of his wife had been discovered. [...] The sad occurrence attracted crowds to the canal, and the relatives and friends of the unfortunate couple having come in from the country to look after them, the scene which took place was heartrending. [...] What renders this melancholy occurrence still more painful is, that the woman was enceinte [heavily pregnant], and known to be within a fortnight of her confinement. She was aged 34 years, and her husband 38.
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Just to add to the Garvey bit - I've found Johanna on the unassisted passenger lists, along with her children. She arrived in 1879 to Sydney on the Orient with her six kids (Mary, Elizabeth, Thomas, Helena, Ann, and Catherine), so my guess is that John died not long beforehand and she headed out to her brother. Not been able to find a record of John's death yet, though. This is the obituary of hers that actually mentioned how long she had been in Australia - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/108184760
I've found all of their baptisms except Helena and Ann, and they lived in Kildorrery before leaving - interestingly, that's where her and Rev. Garvey's father died while visiting their sister, Mrs McSweeney in April 1866. He apparently lived in Grange, Co. Limerick (also close to Knockbrack/Castleconnell) - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/115451435
Edit: complete correction - Johanna was Mrs McSweeney herself, as she originally married Edmond McSweeney in Herbertstown in 1858. She married John Walsh on 10th February 1867 and Mary Ellen Walsh was born in November 1867, so that's interesting. She's also listed as both McSweeney and Garvey, she's 28 and John is 31.