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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: Rozzy on Saturday 17 December 22 00:06 GMT (UK)
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There seem to be 2 families with the names of the above parents;
1. Alexander Thomson and Mary Clark, children Charles, Margaret, John, Mary Ann, Alexander, emigrated to NSW Australia 24th July 1837 on "Portland", and had more children NSW.
2. Alexander Thomson and Mary Clark, on 1861 Census and 1871 Census Kirkoswald, Ayrshire, Scotland. Various children.
The problem seems to be that these families look to have been 'merged' sharing about 20 children, some of these children are in NSW, and some are born in Scotland after 1837 emigration.
Dates of death for the NSW, Australia, Alexander and Mary are incorrect.
So it's messy. Is anyone able to help to unravel the 2 families please?
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Are you looking at somebody else's family tree?
If so - you need to ignore it & do your own research based on your own FH
Which Clark child are you descended from? Was that child born in Scotland or NSW?
If in Scotland - when & where was it born. Who did it marry - where & when?
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Hi Carole
My husband is descended from the Thomson family in NSW Australia, Alexander and Mary (Clark) Thomson, who emigrated, and died in NSW Australia.
The problem is the children that have been attached to them seem to include the other Alexander and Mary's children because some were born after 1837 in Scotland, after the NSW lot emigrated.
I am trying to do my own research, but source material is attached to both of the Thomson families and difficult to see which children belong to whom.
Specifically for a start:
Jean Thomson; was she of the Australian family and died before they emigrated; OR, was she of the Scotland family and married Alexander Herron 21/10/1853. OR, were there 2 Jean's?
Barbara Thomson; was she of the Australian family and died before they emigrated; OR, was she of the Scotland family, who married John McGill in Scotland, and emigrated to Queensland, Australia, 1862 on the Ariadne, where she died 1918. OR, were there 2 Barbara's?
Thanks very much.
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Which particular child is your husband descended from? Name/birthyear/birthplace
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Thank you for following up on this, Carole.
Child of Alexander and Mary Thomson (they emigrated under the name of Alex Thompson on the "Portland"):
Charles Thomson
Birth: May 03, 1828 Largs, North Ayrshire, Scotland, United Kingdom
Death: July 04, 1900 (72) Paterson, New South Wales, Australia
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It sounds like you are looking at a public tree and getting confused.
Alex Thomson (b 1808 Cumnock Ayrshire)
married 12 Nov 1830 Kirkoswald, Ayrshire
to Mary Clark (b 1809 Straiton)
They lived in Girvan in 1841 and in Kirkoswald 1851-1871 census. So they did not emigrate to Australia.
Children born Kirkoswald: Jean 1830, John 19/01/1832, Barbara 1833, Agnes 1835, Alex 1839, Sarah 1841, Margaret 1843, Mary 1844, William 1846, Elisabeth 1849, Ann Dick 1851
- Note: daughter Barbara married John McGill in 1862 Scotland, and emigrated in 1862 to Queensland.
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The family on the ship “Portland” in 1837:
Alexander Thomson 35 a native of county Antrim,
Mary 33 a native of county Tyrone,
Children on board Portland: Charles 9, Margaret 7, John 5, Mary Ann 2&3/4 , Alex 15 months
Children born in NSW: Richard 1841, Agnes 1843, Caroline Shaw 1844.
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Alexander Thomson married 7 Apr 1826 in Stevenston, Ayrshire to Mary Clark
Children baptised in Largs, Ayrshire
- Charles 1/06/1828
- Margaret 25/7/1830
- John 21/10/1832
- Mary Ann 18/01/1835
- Alexander 25/09/1836
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Thank you very much Neale.
The family that I am related to is the one you have listed, they married and had children in Ayrshire, Scotland, and emigrated on the Portland in 1837. I am not confused about that part and have all that information.
I'm trying to determine children of the family; in numerous public trees there have been many children attached to the NSW Australian "Alexander and Mary Thomson".
It seems that some of 'their' children belong to the other family of "Alexander and Mary Thomson", who are on the Scotland Census until 1871, having children that you have listed, thank you very much.
(Note; Both families had children at Ayrshire, Scotland prior to 1837).
Their first 3 children; Jean, John and Barbara have been linked to the Australian family, and in fact John born 1832 is listed in both of those families - John (5) emigrated 1837.
Could you please confirm that there are 2 John Thomson's born 1832? Thank you.
That is the confirmation of children that I was looking for, so I really appreciate your help.
Could I please have any source material you might have to ensure that the correct children are with the correct parents please, as this is where my roadblock started.
Much appreciated.
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I have listed the children and their birth dates for both families in my above posts.
The two Johns have different birth dates and places.
See Scotlands people for Scottish records
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
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Yes, thank you very much Neale for the confirmation of the 2 different Johns.
My problem is that other people (including experienced researchers) have also listed children, and their birth dates, to those families, but have them with different parents (the ones who emigrated versus the ones who stayed). The children were born in a similar area.
I am not questioning your research, and do not mean to offend.
I will look at the link you sent, thank you.
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My problem is that other people (including experienced researchers) have also listed children, and their birth dates, to those families, but have them with different parents (the ones who emigrated versus the ones who stayed). The children were born in a similar area.
No, it isn't your problem. The information that other people choose to put on their family trees is not your concern regardless of how wrong it is, just don't look at them.
Debra :)
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See my earlier posts:
Your family have children baptised in Largs. They can be confirmed on the shipping record.
The other family have their children baptised in Kirkoswald, and they can be confirmed in the census (as posted).
I would recommend not following public trees which are almost always totally or partly incorrect.
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It would be up to you whether or not you attempt to communicate with the "experienced researchers" you mention in order to contradict their findings.
But--Some have found this can be a futile and time-wasting exercise. ;D
Better to focus on your own research.
Sue
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Great comments everyone, thank you.
Dundee I know what you mean, but it becomes my problem when my family is interfered with on public trees.
Sue, yes, I have had that futile and time-wasting exercise (and accusations).
Neale thank you for clarifying the baptisms at Largs as opposed to the baptisms at Kirkoswald.
I will attempt to (gently) get Barbara and Jean removed from the Australian family.
Thanks so much everyone, great result in such a short time. Much appreciated.
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Could I please have any source material you might have to ensure that the correct children are with the correct parents please, as this is where my roadblock started.
All primary source material is at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk.
1841 census, in Girvan: Alex, 30; Mary, 30; Jane, 10; John, 8; Barbara, 6; Agnes, 4; Alex, 2; Sara, 0.
1851, Kirkoswald: Alex, 43; Mary, 43; Barbara, 17; Agnes, 15; Alex, 12; Sarah, 10; Margaret, 8: Mary, 5; William, 3; Elizabeth, 1; Ann Dick, 0.
Using the facility to search for deaths by mother's maiden surname, there are possible deaths for all except Barbara and Sarah, though I am dubious about James and Alexander, as both of those deaths are in Perthshire, not in or close to Ayrshire
Jane may have died in Ayr in 1905 or Maybole in 1909, but there are two other Jane Thomsons with mother's maiden name Clark of roughly the right age
John may or may not be the one who died in Blairgowrie in 1870
Agnes died in Barr in 1912
Alexander might or might not be the one who died in Logierait in 1905
Margaret is probably the one who died in Girvan in 1929 but there are four other Margaret Thomsons with mmn Clark of roughly the right age.
Mary died in Sorn in 1877
William died either in Maybole in 1922 or Dumfries in 1923
Elizabeth died in Hurlford in 1905
Ann Dick died in Bute in 1931
You will be very wise to follow the advice already given to ignore all online trees, try to forget anything you have seen there, and start from scratch with the primary records.
Though as you are descended from the Largs family you can probably safely dismiss all of the Kirkoswald/Girvan family as unrelated.
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Thank you Forfarian, for all of your information, I do appreciate that detail.