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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: siljegampedalen on Monday 12 December 22 22:42 GMT (UK)
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Hello!
I am looking for information about William Cousins. William married to Annie Mary Smith (1885-1970) on the 21st of January 1907 in Bridgend. It is stated that they live in Maesteg. William works as a Haulier in Colliery and his fathers name is Thomas Cousins/Couzins. This is information given by their marriage certificate.
That is also where the knowledge about William stops.
We know they had children together, Rosalind (born 1909) and Constance (born 1907), in addition to two other children. In the 1911 census, Annie Mary, Rosalind and Constance live with Annie Mary's parents, John and Martha in Maesteg. It is stated that Annie Mary is married but it does not say where William is. (link: https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2353/images/rg14_32533_0001_06?pId=1225639)
In the 1939 census, Annie Mary lives with her mother Martha and grandchild Beryl. Beryl is Rosalinds daugther and was brought up by Martha. We are told that Annie Mary is still married, but there are no information about the whereabouts of William. Annie Marys last name listed as Cousins, have been crossed out with a green pen. I cannot make out what is written there. (link: https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/61596/images/tna_r39_7406_7406a_016?pId=45996814)
My questions would be many, but to start of, is there anyone who would know anything about William? What could be the reason he doesnt live with his family? Could he be dead? But if he was, wouldnt Annie Mary at one point be listed as widow?
*Edit, more questions: could he have another name? Ive tried searching all of UK, but an it seems to be decently common.
edit: added birth-and death date.
Any information at all would be very helpful.
Thank you.
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Is any age given for William on the marriage cert?
Is any occupation shown for his father Thomas?
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Is any age given for William on the marriage cert?
Is any occupation shown for his father Thomas?
Thank you for your questions!
It is said that his father thomas is a farmer.
Williams age is said to be 22 years old.
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You may want to take a look at this 1901 entry for Pembrokeshire but no guarantees it’s the right one
Thomas Cousins 37 farmer
Ada 37
William 16
Bertie 6
Piece 5125 Folio 57 Page 13
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You may want to take a look at this 1901 entry for Pembrokeshire but no guarantees it’s the right one
Thomas Cousins 37 farmer
Ada 37
William 16
Bertie 6
Piece 5125 Folio 57 Page 13
'
Thank you!
would there be a way to establish if its the right one? The age fits, the name, the occupation. I guess finding other sources but I have gone through all of ancestry (it feels like) and cant seem to find something that makes me sure. I might just not be familiar enough with ancestry yet.
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I can’t say with any certainty this is your William. Where is Annie Mary in 1921?
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I can’t say with any certainty this is your William. Where is Annie Mary in 1921?
I have not managed to find her in 1921. The next official document after 1911 is in 1939.
I dont know if this has any help or relevance, but Annie lived around Rosalinds children and they remember her well. They were born in late 30s-early 40s. Apparentley, from what they knew, William left Annie and Annie was religious and didnt re-marry. This doesnt have any official back-up to it, and might just be what they were told. Could this be why she is said to be married in later registers? I know this would just be a guess, but could he have left him as early as 1911, as he is not in that census...
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In you opening post you mention the 2 children born pre 1911 then say “in addition to 2 other children”
When were those other children born as it means William was around after 1911
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In you opening pist you mention the 2 children born pre 1911 then say “in addition to 2 other children”
When were those children born as it means William was around after 1911
Their brother Cyril was born in 1910. I didnt put this in as I couldnt find his birth date in my documents, but have now found it. However the last child, is only known because of in the 1911 census it says that Annie Mary has given birth to four children, where three are alive. I dont know the whereabouts of Cyril in 1911 as he is not living with the family. He is at least confirmed by Rosalinds children to be alive as an adult.
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Cyril John Smith Cousins was born December qtr 1910 Bridgend
EDIT
Death reg 1970 Gloucester birthdate 9.11.1910
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Cyril John Smith Cousins was born December qtr 1910 Bridgend
Yes, that is true
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See my addition above
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See my addition above
Yes, Cyril, Rosalind and Constance were all around Rosalinds children. Cyril used to move around alot for work and at one point in the 50s spent time in Brazil. He was divorced.
If William left before the census in 1911, that would mean all the three children were very young when he left. I wonder where he went...
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You may want to take a look at this 1901 entry for Pembrokeshire but no guarantees it’s the right one
Thomas Cousins 37 farmer
Ada 37
William 16
Bertie 6
Piece 5125 Folio 57 Page 13
A possible as unable to find another living Thomas (father/farmer) in Wales with son William rightish age. William not with birth family in 1911.
This William left for the States in 1914
Source
New York Passenger Arriva...(Ellis Island), 1892-1924 Roll 2346, vol 5375-5377, 10 Jul 1914
William Cousins age 30 arrived on 10 Jul 1914 Ellis Island, New York City, United States going Shamokin, PA., U.S.A. States single from Great Britain, Welsh, father Thomas Cousins a farmer, Pembroke.
One William to follow or rule out. Link below to military draft registration 1917/18 has his signature, compare with signature on marriage cert to Annie, see if possibly same William? Also includes census.
Familysearch https://www.rootschat.com/links/01rzj/
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/52097148/william-cousins marriage & 3 children born in USA.
Added: Annie & children are in Llangeinor, Bridgend on 1921 free index. Also in household is Jacob Rees Thomas & wife Rachel Alice nee Smith (sister of Annie) The full record would have all info.
Cas
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You may want to take a look at this 1901 entry for Pembrokeshire but no guarantees it’s the right one
Thomas Cousins 37 farmer
Ada 37
William 16
Bertie 6
Piece 5125 Folio 57 Page 13
A possible as unable to find another living Thomas (father/farmer) in Wales with son William rightish age. William not with birth family in 1911.
This William left for the States in 1914
Source
New York Passenger Arriva...(Ellis Island), 1892-1924 Roll 2346, vol 5375-5377, 10 Jul 1914
William Cousins age 30 arrived on 10 Jul 1914 Ellis Island, New York City, United States going Shamokin, PA., U.S.A. States single from Great Britain, Welsh, father Thomas Cousins a farmer, Pembroke.
One William to follow or rule out. Link below to military draft registration 1917/18 has his signature, compare with signature on marriage cert to Annie, see if possibly same William? Also includes census.
Familysearch https://www.rootschat.com/links/01rzj/
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/52097148/william-cousins marriage & 3 children born in USA.
Added: Annie & children are in Llangeinor, Bridgend on 1921 free index. Also in household is Jacob Rees Thomas & wife Rachel Alice nee Smith (sister of Annie) The full record would have all info.
Cas
First of all, thank you for taking the time!
I have also seen that there are no other William Cousins with farmer father Thomas, not even as I could find extending search to whole of UK.
I wonder if that William is our William, he is listed as single... could this be because he just simply gave that information or would that be official information?
I have tried to attach a photo of both signatures for comparison. I tried as attachment, however I dont know if it comes up....
Edit: They both showed up. I dont think they look to similar other than the fact that they write the first part of name similarly. What do you think? I will say I am not clear on whether this is his signature from the wedding cert, but its the only place where their names are written other than in the official document info. It kind of look similar to the little bit we see of the word register office, and that wouldnt be one of the spouses writing..
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Hi, where did you get the marriage cert? You can only compare if it is a photocopy of original cert.
Who were the witness?
As for his marital status it would be whatever he stated. True or not.
Cas
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Hi, where did you get the marriage cert? You can only compare if it is a photocopy of original cert.
Who were the witness?
Cas
The certificate was given on request by one of Rosalinds children. They have stated it as the marriage certificate between Annie Mary and William. I am not from the UK originally so I would not know what a marriage cert should/would look like and there have trusted that.
It is stated that the witnesses were Anne Davies, Theresa Verity, Graham M. Verity R. Harman Cox (?).
I have attached the full photo of the listed wedding certificate, maybe you can tell me if it is a copy of the certificate or just a copy of the wedding register.
Again thank you so much.
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It is a copy given from the registry office. Read details below box signature of who completed.
It has been filled by clerk or registrar of the office it has date completed 10/01/01
All info inside the box is what is on the original cert but is not the original writing.
Cas
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It is a copy given from the registry office. Read details below box signature of who completed.
It has been filled by clerk or registrar of the office it has date completed 10/01/01
All info inside the box is what is on the original cert but is not the original writing.
Cas
Ah, I see.. thank you! Is there any way to obtain the original document, or is that sealed information?
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You could order a copy from the GRO, I think marriages are £11, I don't think they do PDF by email for marriages but could be wrong. Have a read through.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/menu.asp
You need to register, the indexes are free to search
Good luck
Cas
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You could order a copy from the GRO
Okay thank you so much!
I will try and do that and compare the actual signatures.
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Is there a way of getting an original certificate from GRO? All the ones I have from them are copies. To get an original I thought it was necessary to ask the Registry Office whether it could provide one, and that some will and some won't.
Drosybont
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I would ask if it is photocopy of original. Have not ordered a marriage cert for ages, but a birth cert via PDF a few months back was a photocopy of original, or it very much looks like. There was no other info but as original
Cas
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Last year - information came to light via DNA about an uncle who had fathered a child to a married woman. He had attended the childs birth registration & his details were on the birth cert but as he had a common surname and was in the Army at the time we needed to see his actual signature on the original register.
I rang the local registrars office and explained and had to pay another £11 for a copy of the original entry. Had it within 48hrs - it was definitely my uncles signature
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Hi Seems like he emigrated to PA USA 1914 and had a son Bert in 1916 sadly leaving his original wife and children.
Heddwch
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In the 1939 census, Annie Mary lives with her mother Martha and grandchild Beryl. Beryl is Rosalinds daugther and was brought up by Martha. We are told that Annie Mary is still married, but there are no information about the whereabouts of William. Annie Marys last name listed as Cousins, have been crossed out with a green pen. I cannot make out what is written there. (link: https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/61596/images/tna_r39_7406_7406a_016?pId=45996814)
The green writing isn't very interesting. Annie Mary has been written above Annie, and then the surname Cousins has been crossed out. The surname has Stet written next to it in green, which is an old proof reading mark which basically means "ignore this crossing out, it's a mistake" So someone crossed out her surname when they meant to cross out and correct her forename!
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In the 1939 census, Annie Mary lives with her mother Martha and grandchild Beryl. Beryl is Rosalinds daugther and was brought up by Martha. We are told that Annie Mary is still married, but there are no information about the whereabouts of William. Annie Marys last name listed as Cousins, have been crossed out with a green pen. I cannot make out what is written there. (link: https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/61596/images/tna_r39_7406_7406a_016?pId=45996814)
ohhh thank you so much for the explanation, it clarifies a lot!
The green writing isn't very interesting. Annie Mary has been written above Annie, and then the surname Cousins has been crossed out. The surname has Stet written next to it in green, which is an old proof reading mark which basically means "ignore this crossing out, it's a mistake" So someone crossed out her surname when they meant to cross out and correct her forename!