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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: Carly287 on Monday 12 December 22 22:36 GMT (UK)

Title: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: Carly287 on Monday 12 December 22 22:36 GMT (UK)
Hi, I’m researching a friends ancestor, I think. His name was Cuthbert Sharp, born around 1781. His two children were; John and Mary (Mary is the direct link). I know there was a famous Cuthbert Sharp, but I don’t know if there was two of them? Could someone help please?
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: Carly287 on Monday 12 December 22 22:38 GMT (UK)
There was also some things saying he was born in Sunderland and some born in Hartlepool, and I’m not sure which one was which. Hope someone can help, thankyou!
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: middlesbrough on Monday 12 December 22 23:14 GMT (UK)
There are indeed two Cuthbert's, one from Hartlepool who was a ship owner and the other from Sunderland who received a knighthood. What info do you have on Mary?
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 12 December 22 23:18 GMT (UK)
You say you “think” his name was Cuthbert Sharp.  Is there some uncertainty? 

Who was his wife?

When & where were John & Mary born?

Did Mary marry after 1837?  If so - her marriage cert will have her fathers occupation

I am assuming you have already seen the 1841 entries for both Cuthbert Sharps?
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: middlesbrough on Monday 12 December 22 23:19 GMT (UK)
The only Mary Sharp I can see is born in Sunderland 1810.
Baptism 19.1.1811 Sunderland
Parents Cuthbert Sharp, Elizabeth Wilkinson.

John Sharp 23.11.1809 Sunderland.
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: Carly287 on Monday 12 December 22 23:21 GMT (UK)
Yes that’s the Mary Sharp, born 1810. She died in the early 1840s. She only had one child; John Sharp Harrison, my friends direct ancestor
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: Carly287 on Monday 12 December 22 23:23 GMT (UK)
You say you “think” his name was Cuthbert Sharp.  Is there some uncertainty?  Meant I know he’s related to my friend, but I don’t know if it’s direct or a so many times uncle

Who was his wife?

When & where were John & Mary born? John and Mary were born in Hartlepool, they were only a year apart.
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 12 December 22 23:24 GMT (UK)
That is the Cuthbert (60) & Elizabeth (55) Sharp who are found on the 1841 census with son John 30

https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1493745

Appears to have died 1849 www.freebmd.org.uk
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: Carly287 on Monday 12 December 22 23:29 GMT (UK)
That is the Cuthbert (60) & Elizabeth (55) Sharp who are found on the 1841 census with son John 30

https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1493745

It won’t let me see, but that’s the direct line. When John Sharp Harrison (Mary’s son) died, read his obituary and it said he was related to Sir Cuthbert Sharp? That’s why I’m a bit confused, as in what way distantly related?
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: Carly287 on Monday 12 December 22 23:29 GMT (UK)
Sorry everyone, don’t mean to be confusing
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 12 December 22 23:30 GMT (UK)
Have you registered with Family Search - it’s free
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: Carly287 on Monday 12 December 22 23:34 GMT (UK)
Have you registered with Family Search - it’s free

No I haven’t, but I will
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 12 December 22 23:37 GMT (UK)
If Mary Sharp married John Harrison in June qtr 1938 you need to buy a copy of the marriage cert to determine her fathers occupation to link her to the 1841 entry

The fact that her son’s obit only mentioned he was related to the Sir Cuthbert suggests he may have been a second cousin or similar.  If he was a nephew or grandson I would have expected it to be more precise

It’s possible the 2 Cuthberts were cousins

Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: middlesbrough on Monday 12 December 22 23:43 GMT (UK)
Mary sharp married John Harrison 28.4.1838 Hartlepool.

Mary Sharp spinster
Father Cuthbert Sharp Shipowner

John Harrison Sea captain bachelor
Father Robert shipwright.

So it would appear Mary is not the one born in 1810 born to Cuthbert and Elizabeth but rather one from Hartlepool. I will see if I can find her baptism.
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: Carly287 on Monday 12 December 22 23:53 GMT (UK)
She was definitely born in 1810
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: Carly287 on Monday 12 December 22 23:55 GMT (UK)
If Mary Sharp married John Harrison in June qtr 1938 you need to buy a copy of the marriage cert to determine her fathers occupation to link her to the 1841 entry

The fact that her son’s obit only mentioned he was related to the Sir Cuthbert suggests he may have been a second cousin or similar.  If he was a nephew or grandson I would have expected it to be more precise

It’s possible the 2 Cuthberts were cousins

Just looked at the Newspaper record, John Sharp Harrison was actually the nephew of Sir Cuthbert Sharp, aswell as being the grandson of the other Cuthbert Sharp. I’m just confused, they only had two children. John didn’t have any children?🤔
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: Carly287 on Monday 12 December 22 23:57 GMT (UK)
The only thing is; Elizabeth was Cuthbert Sharp (not famous one) 2nd wife. His first wife was; Ann Brass, but I can’t find any children from that marriage?🤔
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 13 December 22 00:02 GMT (UK)
Look at the 1841 census I referred to - that Cuthbert was a shipowner - not Sir Cuthbert

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQBW-2YN

Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: Carly287 on Tuesday 13 December 22 00:09 GMT (UK)
Yeah I meant I thought the two Cuthberts were related. Sorry I’m not explaining it well
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: middlesbrough on Tuesday 13 December 22 00:46 GMT (UK)
Sorry I think Mary could be the one born in 1810. I can find no other baptisms and there is also John born 23.11.1809.
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: trish1120 on Tuesday 13 December 22 07:12 GMT (UK)
Marriages;

14 Sep 1801, Holy Trinity, Sutherland, Cuthbert SHARP to Mary BRAFS
(often as F is substituted for a S)

20 Jan 1807 St Mary the Virgin, Essington, Cuthbert SHARP, Widower* to Elizabeth WILKINSON

Burial;
26 Jul 1804, Holy Trinity, Sutherland, ANN, Wife of Cuthbert Sharp age 24
Abode Houghton le Spring
Note; Died 24 Jul. Cuthbert Sharp mariner

All above on FreeREG


Sir Cuthbert;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuthbert_Sharp
Other info;
Cuthbert married Elizabeth Croudace at Edinburgh on 8th October 1811
Cuthbert and Elizabeth had one daughter, Louise Sharp (cant confirm this as yet)

His Parents died 1795 (Mother) and 1808 (Father) source FreeREG

Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: Carly287 on Tuesday 13 December 22 10:13 GMT (UK)
Does anyone think the two Cuthberts are related? Want to be able to see a connection.
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: Carly287 on Tuesday 13 December 22 10:28 GMT (UK)
Double checked and one newspaper record said he was a nephew of Sir Cuthbert Sharp, and in another he was descended from a family of shipowners?? Struggling to make sense of it!🤯🤦🏼‍♀️
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: middlesbrough on Tuesday 13 December 22 10:39 GMT (UK)
I do think they were related because Sir Cuthbert was also a shipbuilder, but not his uncle. In a newspaper article, John Sharp Harrison talks about the house Sir Cuthbert once owned. He says he had documents to prove his residence.
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: AlanBoyd on Tuesday 13 December 22 11:45 GMT (UK)
There is an extensive tree on Ancestry which appears to be well-documented, but beware: you shouldn't accept anyone else's tree as being correct without careful scrutiny.

The tree is called Scrutton Family Tree - 2021 01 15 19-44 and the owner is Michael Smith.

The tree has a Cuthbert Sharp 1714-1794. He has two sons:

1) Cuthbert Sharp, 1743, m Susannah Crosby. These are the parents of Sir Cuthbert Sharp, 1781

2) Paul Sharp, 1746, m Mary Shepherd. These are the parents of another Cuthbert Sharp, 1778

Cuthbert Sharp, 1778 m Elizabeth Wilkinson and their daughter Mary Sharp, 1810 marries John Harrison, 1808. These are the parents of John Sharp Harrison, 1840.

Thus John Sharp Harrison’s grandfather (Cuthbert 1778) was the first cousin of Sir Cuthbert.
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: Carly287 on Tuesday 13 December 22 11:54 GMT (UK)
Thankyou so much!! Thought I was going mad, Will be much easier to explain to my friend now!
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: Carly287 on Tuesday 13 December 22 11:55 GMT (UK)
Will do like you say and double check everything first though!
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: AlanBoyd on Tuesday 13 December 22 12:02 GMT (UK)
Incidentally, the tree has a photo of John Sharp Harrison, with an impressive beard.
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: middlesbrough on Tuesday 13 December 22 12:04 GMT (UK)
There is an extensive tree on Ancestry which appears to be well-documented, but beware: you shouldn't accept anyone else's tree as being correct without careful scrutiny.

The tree is called Scrutton Family Tree - 2021 01 15 19-44 and the owner is Michael Smith.

The tree has a Cuthbert Sharp 1714-1794. He has two sons:

1) Cuthbert Sharp, 1743, m Susannah Crosby. These are the parents of Sir Cuthbert Sharp, 1781

2) Paul Sharp, 1746, m Mary Shepherd. These are the parents of another Cuthbert Sharp, 1778

Cuthbert Sharp, 1778 m Elizabeth Wilkinson and their daughter Mary Sharp, 1810 marries John Harrison, 1808. These are the parents of John Sharp Harrison, 1840.

Thus John Sharp Harrison’s grandfather (Cuthbert 1778) was the first cousin of Sir Cuthbert.


2) I think this is meant to be Cuthbert, not Paul.
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: middlesbrough on Tuesday 13 December 22 12:27 GMT (UK)
Mary Shepherd married Cuthbert Sharp 15.2.1767 Hartlepool.

There is this one
Paul Sharp m Mary Hood 25.7.1777 Hartlepool

Looking at the image it says Paul Sharp fisherman 27, Mary Hood widow 26. Witness John Cutts, tinman Stock (could possibly mean Stockton).
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: AlanBoyd on Tuesday 13 December 22 14:37 GMT (UK)
Could this get any more confusing? – There are two Mary Shepherds.

One married a Cuthbert Sharp in 1767.

The other married Luke Hood in 1770, and he died in 1771.

Burials, Hartlepool District, Church: St. Hilda
3 Aug 1771 Luke Hood, drown'd 31 July, fisherman

She went on to marry Paul Sharp, another fisherman, as you have pointed out. The tree that I referred to in my earlier post does seem to know about this, but referred to Paul Sharp's wife by her maiden name.
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: AlanBoyd on Tuesday 13 December 22 14:48 GMT (UK)
The birth year for Cuthbert Sharp (1714) that I transcribed from the Ancestry tree seems to be inferred from his marriage, which also reveals that he was a fisherman.

Durham Marriage Bonds
25 Jan 1741 Cuthbert Sharp (fisherman, age 27, of Hartlepool) obtained a licence to marry Jane Rafton (age 33, of Hartlepool), directed to Stockton-upon-Tees
Surety: Robert Oakes, mariner, of Stockton-upon-Tees
Title: Re: Cuthbert Sharp
Post by: AlanBoyd on Tuesday 13 December 22 14:56 GMT (UK)
In order for this all to hang together we have to believe that a Hartlepool fisherman had two sons, one of whom (Paul) followed on in his father’s trade while the other (Cuthbert) was able to marry into a well-to-do Stockton family (Crosby).