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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: TuTuTulip on Sunday 11 December 22 05:56 GMT (UK)
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Hi. I would be very grateful if someone was able to help me find a birth record for William John Graham (sorry about the name … it isn't a particularly unique one to search)!
The only information I have about William is what has been passed down in time i.e. I don’t have any official records, so I am not one hundred percent sure of its correctness:
William John Graham
Born: 1843
Monkstown, Blackrock
William’s father was William Graham (b. 1803, d. 28 Aug 1875), buried in Monkstown Churchyard.
William’s mother was Jane Warren — I have no further information on her.
William John Graham (junior) emigrated from Ireland to Queensland when he was in his twenties i.e. 1860-ish, and then travelled on to New Zealand in his mid-twenties.
William had a brother, Robert Grier Graham (b. 1834 in Blackrock), and a sister, Maria Graham (b. 1847 in Blackrock).
I have lots of information once William arrived in New Zealand, but there seems to be nothing prior to that time. Any help with this would be wonderful!
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It is difficult to make use of the information you are giving for his life before New Zealand.
What information do you have for his life in New Zealand?
Did he marry in New Zealand?. Can you give details please.
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The information I have regarding William's life in New Zealand is his residence over the years (he mainly resided in the Hawke's Bay area — this information was obtained from the electoral rolls), his occupation (sawmiller), and the births of his nine children. William married Sarah McFadden in 1872 (Hawke's Bay, New Zealand), and died 19 November 1917 in Dannevirke, New Zealand.
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OP is neglecting to mention such "minor" details as religion....
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just to note - Monkstown and Blackrock are two separate towns in South east County Dublin, they are close to each other. 'Monkstown Churchyard' is likely a reference to the old graveyard called Carrickbrennan, which is in Monkstown parish.
The death you mentioned for William shows that he was a 'Yard Clerk', and that informant is someone named Charlotte Graham
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Civil registration of births in Ireland didn't start until 1864 so you need to search for church records (which is why religion is an important clue)- if they exist and remember that not everything that survives is online. Also search for possible siblings as it's not uncommon for baptisms for some of the children in a family to be 'missing.'
If Catholic-
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/
https://registers.nli.ie/
If Church of Ireland-
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/
William Graham died 1875- at Town Hall, Blackrock, and was married so there should also be a registration for wife's death-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1875/020615/7233110.pdf
There is a death for a Jane Graham in Rathdown registration district in 1889 (but age 67 so born c1822).
May be a co-incidence but a Charlotte Jane Graham married Jan.1876 to John Henry Brownell. Her father listed as William Graham (coach builder) and one of the witnesses a Richard Warren-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1876/11158/8087513.pdf
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There is a death for a Jane Graham in Rathdown registration district in 1889 (but age 67 so born c1822).
May be a co-incidence but a Charlotte Jane Graham married Jan.1876 to John Henry Brownell. Her father listed as William Graham (coach builder) and one of the witnesses a Richard Warren-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1876/11158/8087513.pdf
I looked at that 'Jane Graham' death , the name is actually John, I've submitted a correction
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I also submitted a correction for a 'Jane' Graham death (age 5) which was clearly John in the register. The Jane Graham death I mentioned has an incorrect link and I didn't search further for the correct page.
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the death index on FindMyPast has the correct name for that adult Graham death in Rathdown 1889, John and page 664 which matches that link.
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From published trees
Marriage 1863, Cavan
Robert G Graham and Margaret Harvey
Father Wm Graham, Shopkeeper.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1863/09646/5498300.pdf
Emigrated to NZ, 1864.
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There are references to a W Graham, grocer, Blackrock in the years 1856/9 and 1862- 1864 in a Dublin Directory.
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just to note - Monkstown and Blackrock are two separate towns in South east County Dublin, they are close to each other. 'Monkstown Churchyard' is likely a reference to the old graveyard called Carrickbrennan, which is in Monkstown parish.
Thank you for clarifying this for me. :)
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Civil registration of births in Ireland didn't start until 1864 so you need to search for church records (which is why religion is an important clue)
Thank you for kindly explaining the importance of knowing a person's religion when searching records — I was not aware of this. All I have regarding this family are some notes on a piece of paper that may have been written by my grandfather's brother, so it appears I will need to look through both the Catholic and Church of Ireland records.
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Thank you for kindly explaining the importance of knowing a person's religion when searching records — I was not aware of this. All I have regarding this family are some notes on a piece of paper that may have been written by my grandfather's brother, so it appears I will need to look through both the Catholic and Church of Ireland records.
There are more than 2 religious denominations in Ireland- you need to consider Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, Congregational, Brethren ...
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From published trees
Marriage 1863, Cavan
Robert G Graham and Margaret Harvey
Father Wm Graham, Shopkeeper.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1863/09646/5498300.pdf
Thanks for the link to the marriage record. Just to check I have read the place names correctly ... do you think the record says their marriage was solemnised at Kildallan Church in the Parish of Kildallan in the County of Cavan?
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Civil registration of births in Ireland didn't start until 1864 so you need to search for church records (which is why religion is an important clue)
Thank you for kindly explaining the importance of knowing a person's religion when searching records — I was not aware of this. All I have regarding this family are some notes on a piece of paper that may have been written by my grandfather's brother, so it appears I will need to look through both the Catholic and Church of Ireland records.
Don't you know what religion they were in the Antipodes? I doubt they changed on board ship...
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No, I don't.
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No, I don't.
Well, do you have Antipodean marriage or birth dates and locations? Where are they buried? Should not be too difficult to determine if you know that?
It would be really useful (to you) if you could determine this before trying to jump back to Ireland.
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From published trees
Marriage 1863, Cavan
Robert G Graham and Margaret Harvey
Father Wm Graham, Shopkeeper.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1863/09646/5498300.pdf
Thanks for the link to the marriage record. Just to check I have read the place names correctly ... do you think the record says their marriage was solemnised at Kildallan Church in the Parish of Kildallan in the County of Cavan?
Yes, Kildallan, Church if Ireland.
As you see, Robert shows Blackrock as his residence but none shown for Margaret.
However, her father is John Harvey, a Farmer.
Griffiths Valuation shows a John Harvey, in the townland of Cornacrum, parish of Kildallan.
https://www.townlands.ie/cavan/tullyhunco/kildallan/bilberry/cornacrum/
More information here if you want it re G V.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01rzf/
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Great — thank you for confirming the place names, heywood — really appreciated the link to the map, also. Thanks for your help! :)
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I am unsure re the information about William.
The father of Robert, in the marriage is a Grocer.
The father of Charlotte is a coach builder.
There is a death for John Brownell (aghadowey’s earlier post) in 1900, Dublin.
There is an immigration record for Mrs C Brownell, 4r yrs with Miss F C Brownell, 6 yrs to Wellington, N Z.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QJDJ-KTPC
Perhaps that could be explored.
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NZ BDM https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search
1872/7910 GRAHAM William marr. McFADDEN Sarah
births
1873/31133 Graham Edith Mary Sarah ps Sarah / William John
1875/13588 Graham Frederick William ps Sarah / William John
1877/15358 Graham Sarah Ellen ps Sarah / William John
1878/16769 Graham Walter Henry ps Sarah / William John
1880/13602 Graham George Edgar ps Sarah / William John
1883/11324 Graham Jonathan ps Sarah / William John
1888/13963 Graham Maria ps Sarah / William John
1889/13034 Graham Adeline ps Sarah / William John
1894/5013 Graham Alfred Edwin ps Sarah / William John
WW1 NZ enlistment
GRAHAM Jonathan b. 29 Apr 1883 Dannevirke enlisted 22 Aug 1916 #30476
NOK Miss Adeline GRAHAM (sister ) Guy St Dannevirke
Jonathan GRAHAM is 6 feet tall....well above average for the times
GRAHAM Frederick William b. 25 Aug 1875 Napier enlisted 19 Feb 1917 #59359
Father: William John GRAHAM born Ireland, 50 years in NZ
Mother: Sarah GRAHAM born Ireland, 50 tears in NZ
5 feet 9 inches, Methodist
How long have your parents been resident in NZ........father (dec) 32 years at 24 May 1917
NOK Miss A GRAHAM (sister) Guy Street Dannevirke.
GRAHAM Edgar George b. 30 Aug 1880 Napier enlisted 10 Sep 1917 #82641
NOK Mrs S GRAHAM, Guy Street Dannevirke
Father: William John GRAHAM born Ireland, 45 years in NZ*
Mother: Sarah GRAHAM born Ireland " *
(*several pages on this same information repeated with 40 years in NZ)
Edgar George GRAHAM is 6 feet tall....well above average for the times
The GRAHAM sons are tall which might be useful to know when considering other family. The times given for years in NZ of parents look like guestimates, but Frederick William GRAHAM, shortly after the death of his father has reason to give a specific time....32 years.
Daily Southern Cross 15 Jun 1867 p1
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/DSC18670615.2.2.3?
R G GRAHAM of Black Rock County Dublin Ireland send your address to W J GRAHAM, Post Office Auckland.
This marriage certificate would be useful for your research. Witnesses might lead to family connections.
1872/7910 GRAHAM William marr. McFADDEN Sarah
What certificate do you have for BDM events in the lives of people you are researching?
Ancestry NZ Electoral Roll 1867
GRAHAM Robert Grier Centre St Auckland West
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I am unsure re the information about William.
The father of Robert, in the marriage is a Grocer.
The father of Charlotte is a coach builder.
Hmmm ... thanks ... I will look a bit more into that one. Thank you also for the link to the immigration record — perhaps there is a link between Charlotte and William John Graham.
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William Graham died 1875- at Town Hall, Blackrock, and was married so there should also be a registration for wife's death-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1875/020615/7233110.pdf
May be a co-incidence but a Charlotte Jane Graham married Jan.1876 to John Henry Brownell. Her father listed as William Graham (coach builder) and one of the witnesses a Richard Warren-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1876/11158/8087513.pdf
There is a newspaper snippet - 29th March 1866 The Evening Freeman, Dublin and also Saunders Newsletter, Dublin.
‘ William Graham was appointed yard clerk at 12s. per week, with a house. ’
There is also one in 1875 re the appointment of a new yard clerk on the death of William.
This is connected to Charlotte’s marriage and her informing the death.