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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: samsls on Thursday 08 December 22 09:43 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone, hope you are all well.
So, I have been researching my family history lately as my nan who is a Lee always said we were travellers, or came from travellers, and she had photos etc too of various family members.
Anyway, her father was James Jigger Lee from Dover. His father was John Black Jack Lee. He was son to another James Lee who was married to one of the Emmett girls. They were living in tents etc according to the census. James was the son of a Fred Lee.
Now this is where it starts to get confusing. The Emmett lady that James was married to was also a Lee. She was the daughter of Abraham Emmett and Susannah Lee. Susannah was the daughter of Isaac Lee and Lydia Thatcher. It seems like Isaac's father (also possibly called Isaac) had Isaac with someone called Lurina. There seems to be little on her, and I have seen it suggested a few times on Ancestry etc that Lurina is possibly a Florina Scamp who lived nearby. Can anyone shed any light on this?
Obviously I recognise this all happened a long time ago and the official record keeping for some families was vague at best. Nevertheless, I thought it worth asking on here as already found lots of other info on here.
Anyway, thanks for your time.
Sam :)
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Hello, I have a few Florina/Flora Scamp's related to me in Kent, what year was the one you're after born? I might be able to give you some information on her if she's the one related to me :)
edit: just found Susannah and Abraham on my own tree, but I have Isaac's parents down as Thomas Lee and Rose Scamp/Kemp. I just checked some my heritage trees and many have the same thing, or some others have his mum being Lurina Rose. Not sure which is correct, Lurina (Rose?) or Rose Scamp...
Will look more, because I might have got that wrong....
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Hmm, I'm not sure how to prove Isaac was Thomas and Rose's son, or why myself and other people have him down as that when the baptism transcription says his mum was Lurina.
The only thing I can see right now that relates him to Thomas and Rose Lee is his children: Amos, Susannah and Alexander are also the names of what would be his siblings (if he's thomas and rose's son) and also the fact that they often changed their first names..
Interesting that you thought it could be Florina SCAMP and I had her down as Rose SCAMP, maybe there was a Rose FLORINA Scamp? Who also went by Florina or Lurina/Lorina?
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There is a SCAMP one name study which might help
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01rzb/
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And another site for Kent gypsies & travellers which you might find useful
https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~gypsy/genealogy/gypsy.htm
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Hmm, I'm not sure how to prove Isaac was Thomas and Rose's son, or why myself and other people have him down as that when the baptism transcription says his mum was Lurina.
The only thing I can see right now that relates him to Thomas and Rose Lee is his children: Amos, Susannah and Alexander are also the names of what would be his siblings (if he's thomas and rose's son) and also the fact that they often changed their first names..
Interesting that you thought it could be Florina SCAMP and I had her down as Rose SCAMP, maybe there was a Rose FLORINA Scamp? Who also went by Florina or Lurina/Lorina?
I think I wondered if the Lurina Rose was a preference over Florina or something like that tbh :)
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Hello, I have a few Florina/Flora Scamp's related to me in Kent, what year was the one you're after born? I might be able to give you some information on her if she's the one related to me :)
edit: just found Susannah and Abraham on my own tree, but I have Isaac's parents down as Thomas Lee and Rose Scamp/Kemp. I just checked some my heritage trees and many have the same thing, or some others have his mum being Lurina Rose. Not sure which is correct, Lurina (Rose?) or Rose Scamp...
Will look more, because I might have got that wrong....
I seem to have Nicholas being the father to Isaac (the senior one). There is a record of that baptism (well a photo of it). I have seen the younger Isaacs father suggested ro be Thomas Lee, Isaac Lee and William Scamp, but again I am pretty sure I have seen a document Isaac son of Isaac.
I wasn't expecting a lot anyway tbh but you guys have been a great help. :)
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I also have a question about the Dorinder/Richander Emmett link. Now, according to records she was born and buried in the same year. Yet, there are other records of her (Richender) in census in same household at age 20 odd. Very strange indeed. I wondered if Richender and Dorinda were the same as there was only a year apart, or some other reason.
Nevertheless this has been very interesting.
Thanks again :)
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And another site for Kent gypsies & travellers which you might find useful
https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~gypsy/genealogy/gypsy.htm
Many Thanks:)
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Hmm, I'm not sure how to prove Isaac was Thomas and Rose's son, or why myself and other people have him down as that when the baptism transcription says his mum was Lurina.
The only thing I can see right now that relates him to Thomas and Rose Lee is his children: Amos, Susannah and Alexander are also the names of what would be his siblings (if he's thomas and rose's son) and also the fact that they often changed their first names..
Interesting that you thought it could be Florina SCAMP and I had her down as Rose SCAMP, maybe there was a Rose FLORINA Scamp? Who also went by Florina or Lurina/Lorina?
Hi, interestingly there is another baptism record which has her down as Sunna which suggests to me she was actually a Susannah. Will keep digging. :)
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Also just saw the baptism record with ''Sunna'', didn't think about the Sunna and Susannah link but that does make sense.
With the Richander/Dorinder question, was it the Richander Emmett born in 1848 (daughter of Abraham and Susannah Emmett) or the Richander Emmett born 1868 (granddaughter of Abraham and Susannah Emmett)?
what records did you find for ''Dorinder Emmett'', can't seem to find any :)
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Also just saw the baptism record with ''Sunna'', didn't think about the Sunna and Susannah link but that does make sense.
With the Richander/Dorinder question, was it the Richander Emmett born in 1848 (daughter of Abraham and Susannah Emmett) or the Richander Emmett born 1868 (granddaughter of Abraham and Susannah Emmett)?
what records did you find for ''Dorinder Emmett'', can't seem to find any :)
Hi, the only record of Dorinda I can see is from this document (see attachment).
My tree at the minute isn't clear here tbh. :)
I have a theory that Richander died at birth and Dorinda adopted the name at some point for some reason. :)
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I think Dorinda and Richander must be the same person or as you said Dorinda took the name Richander, on a census there is a RICHANDER LEE married to a James Lee, living with Abraham and Susannah. This must be the ''Dorinda'' Emmett that married James Lee.
Do you already have this census?
If not, it says their children are: Ezekiah Lee (b. 1868) and Fairnette Lee (b. 1869) - (probably Fairnetta).
I will check their baptisms for what they put their mothers name as- Dorinder or Richander.
The only thing is, if Dorinda did adopt the name Richander after her sister who died, there would be a birth/baptism for a DORINDA EMMETT too, unless Abraham and Susannah didn't register the birth of her at all (which I have seen a lot with travellers so who knows ::)).
Will look for the name of the mum on baptisms for Ezekiah and Fairnette and maybe some kind of record of Dorinda's birth :)
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You've probably already found this but just in case you haven't:
On Ezekiah's or ''Hezekiah's/Hezakiah's'' it says his mothers name is Richander
Can't find Fairnette's but found one for Abraham Lee mothers name being: Richander
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You've probably already found this but just in case you haven't:
On Ezekiah's or ''Hezekiah's/Hezakiah's'' it says his mothers name is Richander
Can't find Fairnette's but found one for Abraham Lee mothers name being: Richander
Yes I noticed that too. Very confusing indeed.
I also wondered if Sunna was either Susannah or even Hanna depending on the state of the document/records someone may have read Hannah/Susanna as Sunna. Or maybe I am just clutching at straws at this point haha. :)
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Seems to be a fair bit of evidence supporting a Richenda (although one was buried) but little suggesting a Dorinda. 🤷♂️
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I think Dorinda and Richander must be the same person or as you said Dorinda took the name Richander, on a census there is a RICHANDER LEE married to a James Lee, living with Abraham and Susannah. This must be the ''Dorinda'' Emmett that married James Lee.
Do you already have this census?
If not, it says their children are: Ezekiah Lee (b. 1868) and Fairnette Lee (b. 1869) - (probably Fairnetta).
I will check their baptisms for what they put their mothers name as- Dorinder or Richander.
The only thing is, if Dorinda did adopt the name Richander after her sister who died, there would be a birth/baptism for a DORINDA EMMETT too, unless Abraham and Susannah didn't register the birth of her at all (which I have seen a lot with travellers so who knows ::)).
Will look for the name of the mum on baptisms for Ezekiah and Fairnette and maybe some kind of record of Dorinda's birth :)
Hi, so I found Fairnettes record. Richender is down as her mum. For some reason her name has been spelled Vanit on the records.
:)
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Hello!
I realize this post is pretty old, but I'm wondering if you have any more information on James Jigger Lee? Did he have a son named Alexander Lee?
Thank you ☺️
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There was a girl in my year group at school called Ellie Emmett, I think her sister was called Brogan, but I have no idea if they were Gypsies. I went to school in Orpington, Kent.