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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Lisa in California on Friday 18 November 22 20:10 GMT (UK)

Title: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Friday 18 November 22 20:10 GMT (UK)
[Note: photos are too large to post, 3.4MB.]

After a relative passed away, we found in her family keepsake box what appears to be a small melted metal object. There is no one left in the family to ask questions about the object.

If I am remembering things correctly, next to the object was a burned coin wrapped in paper with the words “from the earthquake” (or similar words).  The family lived in San Francisco and they were there during the 1906 earthquake.  At some point, the grandfather left his residence to help his daughter’s family flee their neighbourhood. His neighbourhood was ultimately destroyed during the fire.

Would anyone be able to explain in simple terms how I can alter the photo so it can be posted, please? If not, if I give a description of the item, would anyone be willing to offer suggestions of what someone might keep after it has been “destroyed” (such as jewellery, a crucifix, etc.).  Thank you, Lisa
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Wiggy on Friday 18 November 22 20:21 GMT (UK)
How about reducing the size of the photo then trying posting again?     ;)
 
Wiggy
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: AlanBoyd on Friday 18 November 22 20:23 GMT (UK)
If you’re not very comfortable with image processing software (are you PC or Mac?) how about viewing the image on your phone and making a screenshot – that should be a lot smaller.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Friday 18 November 22 20:24 GMT (UK)
I don’t know how to reduce the size.  :-[. I’m photo-sizing challenged.  ;)  But thank you for reading my post.  :)
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Friday 18 November 22 20:27 GMT (UK)
I’m an iPad.  ;D

The original photos were taken with my husband’s phone and emailed to my iPad.  I will try taking a screenshot.  Thank you for the suggestion, AlanBoyd.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: AlanBoyd on Friday 18 November 22 20:37 GMT (UK)
iPad – me too.

I just had a try, and the screen shot images are surprisingly large. Anyway, I recommend a free app called “Image Size” available on the App Store. I have no connection with this app, but I do use it from time to time.

If you search for it by name it should be at or close to the top, black icon, blue diamond with curly arrow inside.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Friday 18 November 22 20:41 GMT (UK)
Unfortunately, when I take a screenshot of the original photo, it doubles the MB. But it was a good idea.

Just read your post - I guess I do have to use that option. I did read about the option in RootsChat but I was hoping that I could work around it. Thank you again for helping and for giving details about how to “get there”.  I’ll get it eventually.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Friday 18 November 22 20:56 GMT (UK)
I’m having trouble (no surprise there).  I will try again when it is quiet in the house and when I can concentrate.  Thank you both again for your replies and suggestions.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Erato on Friday 18 November 22 21:04 GMT (UK)
If you've got Microsoft Office, then use it to open the photo.  Select 'edit image' and then 'change size.'  You can specify the width and height you want or reduce the image by x%.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 18 November 22 21:07 GMT (UK)
Hopefully you can get the photo posted here but in the meantime I suggest the mystery item might be almost any item which was found in the ruins of the family home.
My cousin Thomas had a stone which was handed down from our great-grandmother. When she was leaving the family home in Ireland her brother Thomas picked up a pebble and threw it into the carriage for her to remember home. Fortunately there was also a note explaining the story and one of Tommy's children has it now (almost 150 years late).
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Friday 18 November 22 23:26 GMT (UK)
Erato, I do not have Microsoft Office.  But, thank you for suggesting the idea and explaining how I would edit it!
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Saturday 19 November 22 00:12 GMT (UK)
aghadowey, that is such a sweet story.  I would imagine that the stone is one of the family’s most treasured items. I am very sentimental so I think your stone story is amazing.

While looking around my living room for any special family items, I saw the mantel clock that my parents received as a wedding gift from my dad’s parents.  It’s not the prettiest clock to begin with, it is missing a rather prominent trim piece and hasn’t kept time for years, but it means the world to me.

Regarding the metal item, I don’t believe the grandfather was well off and most likely was living in a (divided) house with other families. Due to the ravaged burn area, I would think that it would be more likely that the item was in his daughter’s house. However, it could have been found anywhere: on a road, in the park where they had to live after the earthquake and fire, a work mate could have given it to him, it might not even be from the 1906 fire.  However, it is a rather odd looking piece.  If I eventually figure out how to post the photos, others might agree (about it being odd).  Thank you for sharing, aghadowey.  I love your story.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Neale1961 on Saturday 19 November 22 00:16 GMT (UK)
Lisa, does this help?
https://www.howtogeek.com/726913/how-to-resize-or-reduce-photo-size-on-iphone-and-ipad/
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Saturday 19 November 22 00:18 GMT (UK)
Neale1961, I will look at it now. Thank you!
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Saturday 19 November 22 00:56 GMT (UK)
Lisa, does this help?
https://www.howtogeek.com/726913/how-to-resize-or-reduce-photo-size-on-iphone-and-ipad/

I think I missed a step as I can’t finish the process.  Family should be home soon. Hopefully, I can get help to figure out what I missed. 
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Thursday 24 November 22 16:41 GMT (UK)
…After a relative passed away, we found in her family keepsake box what appears to be a small melted metal object. There is no one left in the family to ask questions about the object.

…next to the object was a burned coin wrapped in paper with the words “from the earthquake” (or similar words).  The family lived in San Francisco and they were there during the 1906 earthquake.  At some point, the grandfather left his residence to help his daughter’s family flee their neighbourhood. His neighbourhood was ultimately destroyed during the fire…

I am wondering if there are any suggestions of what this could have been before it melted/burned, please, as it seems to have a shape rather than a solid mass. It must have been important as it has possibly been in the family for 100+ years.

Note: the colours in the photo are a bit off. The object is actually a darker brown and doesn’t have the colour variations. 
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Thursday 24 November 22 16:45 GMT (UK)
I have one more photo, of the “back” of the object but it is too large (522 kb) to post.  I can have my son reduce it (this week) if it will help seeing both sides.

Apologies about the large size of the above photo, I know that it is difficult to view but I didn’t know how to make it more compact. The actual object doesn’t look as scary.  ;)
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Erato on Thursday 24 November 22 18:06 GMT (UK)
Maybe a skeleton key?
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Thursday 24 November 22 20:08 GMT (UK)
Hi Erato.  That’s an interesting suggestion.  While the object is too heavy to be one skeleton key, it certainly could be a few keys melted together.  Looking at antique skeleton key images online, some are identical in colour and “texture” to my object.

Thank you for your suggestion.  It’s certainly something to think about and much better than my option of jewellery.   ;D
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Erato on Thursday 24 November 22 21:47 GMT (UK)
I was thinking it might be a big, heavy key for, say, a stable or a warehouse or something like that.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Thursday 24 November 22 22:52 GMT (UK)
I’ve led a sheltered life - I’ve never seen a large key before.  ;D  Looking online, there are images for church keys, gas keys, large skeleton keys, etc.  Our object certainly could be just one key.

The photo doesn’t adequately show the object.  It is mostly flat on one side except for the top part where it is still flat but appears to have been twisted down a wee bit.  The bottom half is of course more solid, wider and it is “thicker” than the top half.

It may not even be a family item. Perhaps it was found in San Francisco’s Golden Gate Park where one ancestor worked or found by another relative who was a motorman in San Francisco. Maybe originally the item had a note with it or maybe everyone in the extended families knew where it came from so no note was needed.

Thank you again for your advice, Erato.  It is very helpful.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Erato on Thursday 24 November 22 23:02 GMT (UK)
It could be flattened because it was lying on a flat surface when it melted.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Thursday 24 November 22 23:11 GMT (UK)
Yes, we thought the same thing.  It isn’t totally flat and solid on the bottom, but flat enough that it must have been on a flat surface.  Perhaps it was picked up before it was totally cool; it was on top of something that allowed the uppermost “arm” to bend down; or, someone tried to move/bend the top and bent the upper part before it hardened.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Erato on Friday 25 November 22 05:11 GMT (UK)
You might want to contact these folks:

https://sfmuseum.org/1906/06.html

"In response to repeated requests through our website we are setting out to compile a new and more accurate account of those affected by the 1906 earthquake. We want information on everyone who was here at the time, both survivors and those who perished. Click on the 1906 Earthquake Great Register to find out how to submit your information."

If you click on the Great Register, there is link to contact staff about artifacts.

My grandmother's cousin was there and survived the quake.  I know this from a newspaper article that shellyesq found for me years ago.  Maybe I will submit her data to the museum.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Friday 25 November 22 07:58 GMT (UK)
Oh wow, thank you for mentioning the site!  I’ve visited the site in the past but didn’t know anything about their quest.

I’m sure they would be interested in your family, especially if you know a bit about her.

I am going to try to find the coin I mentioned earlier.  I would like to see the mint date and read the note again.

Thank you for recommending the site.  I wonder if they might even have suggestions about my object. 
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 25 November 22 08:12 GMT (UK)
Hope this works - here's the photos of the object, Lisa can explain more about the views if necessary :D
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Mike in Cumbria on Friday 25 November 22 08:31 GMT (UK)
Contents of a cutlery drawer?
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Friday 25 November 22 08:58 GMT (UK)
Contents of a cutlery drawer?

Perhaps!  The person who was most likely to save it/find and save it was born in Ireland, supposedly orphaned at some point and finally settled in California.  Possibly he had some family cutlery that meant something to him, no matter the appearance.  Or, perhaps it was just found in debris and the person thought it unique.  I also am not sure it was from the earthquake and fire; there could be some unrelated reason why it was kept.

Thank you for the suggestion, Mike.  :)
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Friday 25 November 22 09:09 GMT (UK)
Thank you for helping me, maddys52!  The item is much easier to view now.  Thank you for posting the other images as well.

The first photo is what I’m describing as the top of the object. The second photo is the object turned upside down, showing the flat (bottom) side. The third photo is a side view, which also shows the slight twist, where it doesn’t lay flat.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: youngtug on Friday 25 November 22 09:41 GMT (UK)
Do you know what metal the object is, I am not sure that a house fire would reach an high enough temperature to melt steel or iron.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: ThrelfallYorky on Friday 25 November 22 09:45 GMT (UK)
I must admit I'd thought cutlery, too. My father as a child had his own little decorated silver set of knife ( very blunt) fork and spoon, which even came to England with him, and was given on to me. I'm sure his mum would have grabbed something like that, if they'd ever been in an earthquake!
TY
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Friday 25 November 22 10:10 GMT (UK)
Do you know what metal the object is, I am not sure that a house fire would reach an high enough temperature to melt steel or iron.

Hmm.  Hadn’t thought of that.

It is not magnetic.  It is fairly heavy, given the size of the object.  There is one tiny piece that possibly could be removed, but of course I won’t try that.  The metal is very hard.  It is not as colourful as the photo shows…I don’t know how the camera picked up the colour variation.  There are tiny specks of colour on it, too orange to be brass.  Moving it around with overhead lights on makes very small parts of the object sparkle.

Thank you for your interest, youngtug.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Friday 25 November 22 10:16 GMT (UK)
I must admit I'd thought cutlery, too. My father as a child had his own little decorated silver set of knife ( very blunt) fork and spoon, which even came to England with him, and was given on to me. I'm sure his mum would have grabbed something like that, if they'd ever been in an earthquake!
TY

We actually had small folks for our boys, but they were inexpensive items (and still have them).  ;)  You are fortunate to have the cutlery set. I’m sure it is treasured.

Thank you for your thoughts, ThrelfallYorky.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Friday 25 November 22 10:21 GMT (UK)
I wonder if it could have any copper in it?
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: youngtug on Friday 25 November 22 18:31 GMT (UK)
Copper is pink when newly abraded, it will grow verdigris,ie; go green when exposed to air and moisture.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Friday 25 November 22 18:55 GMT (UK)
Thank you, youngtug.  I have seen green copper things (copper bottom saucepans can be so insightful).  ;) I didn’t know that air and moisture caused the reaction.

There definitely isn’t any green on the item.

Thank you for the explanation, youngtug. I thoroughly enjoy learning new things; I’ve always been inquisitive.  (When I was in college, I took required courses and deviated from my major to also take unrelated classes, eventually earning a degree and two certificates.  Apparently, I had too much time on my hands.)  ;D

Update: insightful should be delightful.  Autocorrect can be irritating at times.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: youngtug on Friday 25 November 22 19:56 GMT (UK)
It is the presence of acid that causes the green, without it the oxide film would be brown.

Melting temp for iron and steel varies but starts just above 2,000f. Copper is slightly below that and bronze and brass are lower, although above 1650f.   Gold, silver and aluminium are lower [in that order]
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Footo on Friday 25 November 22 20:22 GMT (UK)
A door knocker perhaps?
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: youngtug on Friday 25 November 22 21:35 GMT (UK)
It looks like there may be a couple of spoons in the object. It reminds me of something I saw once, did any family members visit Japan after/during WW2
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: harrywrag on Friday 25 November 22 21:39 GMT (UK)
you mentioned that a relitive was a motorman was this on the cable cars  (tramcars ) of san francisco im mentioning this because on the last day of tramcars in glasgow lots of people put objects coins ect on the tram rails the tram passed over them flattening them could this have happened to the object you have

                                                   harrywrag
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Friday 25 November 22 21:47 GMT (UK)
It is the presence of acid that causes the green, without it the oxide film would be brown.

Melting temp for iron and steel varies but starts just above 2,000f. Copper is slightly below that and bronze and brass are lower, although above 16650f.   Gold, silver and aluminium are lower [in that order]

Got it.  Thank you for the additional details. My saucepan bottoms actually have quite a bit more brown when they aren’t polished but do occasionally have a bit of green.  I will keep the melting points in mind; they may come in handy.  Thank you again, youngtug!
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Friday 25 November 22 22:00 GMT (UK)
A door knocker perhaps?

I know there are several suggestions for cutlery but (a special) door knocker is something that I could envision the family having and wanting to keep.  It is also just about the right weight for a door knocker.

Thank you for your idea, Footo!
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Friday 25 November 22 22:09 GMT (UK)
It looks like there may be a couple of spoons in the object. It reminds me of something I saw once, did any family members visit Japan after/during WW2

I don’t believe anyone left California. There were only a few family members who would have had the object as a couple and their two children settled in California c1880.  I don’t believe they knew anyone who travelled.

Thank you for continuing to offer suggestions, youngtug.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Friday 25 November 22 22:27 GMT (UK)
you mentioned that a relitive was a motorman was this on the cable cars  (tramcars ) of san francisco im mentioning this because on the last day of tramcars in glasgow lots of people put objects coins ect on the tram rails the tram passed over them flattening them could this have happened to the object you have

                                                   harrywrag

What an interesting story, harrywrag!  I lived in San Francisco when the cable cars were shut down for two years.  I remember a few of my workmates going outside and having photos taken near a cable car.  I like your story more, though.  What a clever thing to do to mark the occasion.

Perhaps a family member found the object in the rails when he went back to work?  Thank you for your idea, harrywrag.

PS We have a photo of the son-in-law while he was at work.  I believe he was posing in front of a streetcar (which ran on rails). I will search for the photo tomorrow as I’m curious what he operated.

All of the ideas have been excellent and very much appreciated.
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: maddys52 on Saturday 26 November 22 07:56 GMT (UK)
I like the suggestion of a door knocker. Maybe it could also be the house number?

(I mentioned this thread to my OH who suggested it might be a neuralyzer.  :P )
Title: Re: Melted metal object - original use?
Post by: Lisa in California on Saturday 26 November 22 08:59 GMT (UK)
I like the suggestion of a door knocker. Maybe it could also be the house number?

(I mentioned this thread to my OH who suggested it might be a neuralyzer.  :P )

I like door knocker as well but I think that’s because we had an antique English door knocker for our last house (I guess it is still packed away) and we have an Irish one for our new house.  So, I’m biased.   ;)

A fancy house number could be a possibility.  I will check out where family members lived in the early 1900s.  (Since it was packed with the coin, I think it came from the same decade, but I could be incorrect.)

I had to look up neuralyzer…his reply is similar to what my brother would suggest…same sense of humour.  Unfortunately, I don’t have the same quick sense of humour, so I can’t offer a comeback.

Thank you, maddys52