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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Chloebolton22 on Wednesday 16 November 22 22:06 GMT (UK)

Title: Great grandad - MATTHEWS family
Post by: Chloebolton22 on Wednesday 16 November 22 22:06 GMT (UK)
Moderator comment: January 2025 - Three topics have been merged to create this thread.  There may be repeated information as a result.  Hopefully there are not too many - nor too many loose ends!


I’m trying to find more information about Wilfred Mathews so far I’ve found that he died 30th September 1980. Pennington Lane, Ince and that he was born Wilfred Mathews born 3rd June 1907 Wigan and he was married to Ellen Matthew's. If anyone can help find more information that will be great
Title: Re: Great grandad
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 17 November 22 22:09 GMT (UK)
Hi ChloeBolton22

Welcome to RootsChat  :)

Would this happen to be your family tree on Ancestry? www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/184820724/person/322412992184/facts

If so, not sure about the parents you are showing for Wilfred. There is this birth which would fit for Wilfred from what you have mentioned:

MATTHEWS, WILFRED        PLUMB (mother's maiden name)    
GRO Reference: 1907  S Quarter in WIGAN  Volume 08C  Page 118

Have you checked for father's name on Wilfred's marriage registration to Ellen Ralph (1st Qrt 1932 8c/62)?

Failing to see Wilfred on the 1911 census so far. Have you searched for him on this and the 1921 census?  Have you found his 1939 register entry with wife Ellen? Added: Just found them for 1939. He is consistent with a birth date of 3 June 1907.

Monica
Title: Re: Great grandad
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 17 November 22 22:26 GMT (UK)
These are the details for that 1907 birth mentioned above with mother showing as Plumb:

Baptism: 13 Nov 1907 St Mark, Newtown, Pemberton, Lancashire, England
Wilfred Matthews - [Child] of James Henry Matthews & Rose Ann
    Born: 3 Jun 1907
    Abode: 58 Soho Street
    Occupation: Collier
    Baptised by: J. Hunt Newberry
    Register: Baptisms 1901 - 1909, Page 100, Entry 800
    Source: Original register at Wigan Archives

www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

Monica
Title: Re: Great grandad
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 17 November 22 22:28 GMT (UK)
And the marriage from the same site:

Marriage: 2 Jan 1932 Christ Church, Ince, Lancashire, England
Wilfred Matthews - 24, Collier, Bachelor, 212 Warrington Road Abram
Ellen Ralph - 22, Spinster, 13 Bird Street
    Groom's Father: James Henry Matthews, Collier
    Bride's Father: Charles Ralph, Deceased, Collier
    Witness: George Allan; Mary Belshaw
    Married by Banns by: A. Stout Curate
    Register: Marriages 1927 - 1935, Page 140, Entry 280
    Source: Original register at Wigan Archives

Monica
Title: Re: Great grandad
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 17 November 22 22:31 GMT (UK)
And again from www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html you have parents' marriage:

Marriage: 2 Jun 1906 St Mark, Newtown, Pemberton, Lancashire, England
James Henry Matthews - 26, Collier, Bachelor, 20 Sarginson St.
Roseanna Plum - (X), 22, Spinner, Spinster, 7 Soho St.
    Groom's Father: John Matthews, deceased, Collier
    Bride's Father: Joseph Plum, deceased, Ship's Captain
    Witness: James Orme; Margaret Orme
    Married by Banns by: F. C. Shirtcliff Curate
    Register: Marriages 1903 - 1914, Page 63, Entry 125
    Source: Original register at Wigan Archives

Monica
Title: Re: Great grandad
Post by: MonicaL on Thursday 17 November 22 22:39 GMT (UK)
Can't easily see them in 1911 so far.

This looks a possible death for mother Rose Ann:

4th Qrt 1921   
Rose A Matthews 38   Wigan 8c/ 29

With this likely date range for her death, you should hopefully be able to find her with family on the 1921 census.

Monica
Title: Re: Great grandad
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 18 November 22 07:13 GMT (UK)
1921 census free index

Wilfred Mathews b1907 in Newtown, Lancashire, family living Wigan Lancashire

Wilfred, James and Rosaton are on this record.

Spellings as on census index, you would have to view record for full info.

Welcome to Rootschat  :)

Cas
Title: Re: Great grandad
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 18 November 22 10:33 GMT (UK)
Hello & welcome to Rootschat

Searching the address from the marriage details posted for James Henry Mathew there is this James Matthew on 1901 census

20, Sarginson Street, New Town, Pemberton, Wigan

John   Williams   Head   Single               Coal miner hewer Cornwall
Eliza   Matthew   Boarder   Widow      Cornwall
James   Matthew   Boarder   Single    Labourer in coal mine   Pemberton, Lancashire
William   Matthew   Boarder   Single Pemberton, Lancashire

found James & Rose with their child on 1911 census their surname Matthiews
3 children born 1 living 2 died

20 Sargison St Pemberton, Lancashire

Eliza   Head   Widow   1853      Treneleth Mabe
James   Son   Married   1880   Coal miner hewer Wigan Lancs
Rose   Daughter   Married   1884      Lamberhead Green Lancs
Winifred   Daughter      1907      Lancs Pemberton
John   Williams   Boarder   Single 1854   Colliery timberman underground   Cornwall Madron

Added

link to 1911 census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWYD-ZLM - has there been a mistake on the 1911 census naming Wilfred as Winifred - the schedule was signed by John WILLIAMS


another possible child

MATTHEWS, JAMES   mmn PLUM
GRO Reference: 1911  J Quarter in WIGAN  Volume 08C  Page 131   

edit death for a James Matthews age 0 in Wigan Jun 1911

Title: Re: Great grandad
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Friday 18 November 22 14:50 GMT (UK)
Family in 1881 - Pemberton, Lancs
Piece:   3779, Folio:   10, Page Number: 14

John Matthews   46 coal miner,  Devon (states Taunton, which is Somerset?)
Eliza Matthews wife   34 Mabe, Cornwall
John Matthews   son 16 Mountain Ash, Glamorgan, Wales
Pricilla M. Matthews   dau 13 Cornwall
Louisa Matthews dau   11 Mountain Ash
Joseph Matthews   son 9 "
Elizabeth E. Matthews   dau 7 "
Harriet Matthews    dau 5 "
James H. Matthews   son 1 Pemberton, Lancs
John Williams lodger, 26 Madron, Cornwall

Mother's maiden name Opie (Added: not checked all children)

Marriages Mar  Q 1864   same page
Harris    Amelia        Merthyr T.    11a   462    
Hobbs    Henry        Merthyr T    11a   462    
Matthews    John        Merthyr T    11a   462    
Opey    Eliza        Merthyr T    11a   462    

Cas
Title: Re: Great grandad
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 18 November 22 15:08 GMT (UK)
Family in 1881 - Pemberton, Lancs
Piece:   3779, Folio:   10, Page Number: 14

John Matthews   46 coal miner,  Devon (states Taunton, which is Somerset?)
Eliza Matthews wife   34 Mabe, Cornwall
John Matthews   son 16 Mountain Ash, Glamorgan, Wales
Pricilla M. Matthews   dau 13 Cornwall
Louisa Matthews dau   11 Mountain Ash
Joseph Matthews   son 9 "
Elizabeth E. Matthews   dau 7 "
Harriet Matthews    dau 5 "
James H. Matthews   son 1 Pemberton, Lancs
John Williams lodger, 26 Madron, Cornwall

Mother's maiden name Opie

Marriages Mar  Q 1864   same page
Harris    Amelia        Merthyr T.    11a   462    
Hobbs    Henry        Merthyr T    11a   462    
Matthews    John        Merthyr T    11a   462    
Opey    Eliza        Merthyr T    11a   462    

Cas

For info... 1891 census

20 Sarginson Street, Pemberton, Wigan, Lancashire

John   Williams   Head   Married   1854   Cornwall, coal miner
Eliza   Williams dittoed Wife Married   1849   Cornwall
Lina F   Mathews   Stepdaughter 1870   Cotton spinner   Wales
Betsy   Mathews   Stepdaughter 1874   Cotton spinner   Wales
Harriet   Mathews   Stepdaughter 1876   Doffer in cotton mill   Wales
James   Mathews   Stepson   1880    Pemberton, Lancashire
William   Williams   Son          1882      Pemberton

added is this James' birth entry?

MATTHEWS, JAMES  HENRY     mmn HOPEY 
GRO Reference: 1879  D Quarter in WIGAN  Volume 08C  Page 124

and is this William William's  birth entry

MATTHEWS, WILLIAM  HENRY     mmn OPIE 
GRO Reference: 1878  M Quarter in WIGAN  Volume 08C  Page 139

edit 1871 census

Caradoc Street, Llanwonno, Pontypridd, Glamorganshire, Wales

John   MATTHEWS Head   1836   Newton Devon, coal miner
Eliza   Wife   1844 Mabe Cornwall
John   Son   1865 Merthyr Glamorgan, Wales
Prudence   Daughter   1868   St Athens Cornwall
Laura Jane    Daughter   1870   Llanwono Glamorgan, Wales
James OPIE lodger single 1843 St Athens Cornwall, stone mason
George Miles lodger

1873 Bpt Laura Jane https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1R1-2PX
1874 Bpt Elizabeth Ellen https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1R1-G8G
Title: Re: Great grandad
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 18 November 22 18:02 GMT (UK)
 Chloebolton22 - hope the information already posted has been of some help to you.

If Rose Ann Plum(b) is the mother of the Wilfred Matthews you are looking for this might be her on the census.......

1891 24 Broom Street https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7W6M-LMM

1901 24 Broom Street Wigan  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9GB-T75

29 Apr 1874 St Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire

Joseph Plumb born 8 Apr
parents Joseph Plumb occ waterman & Harriet
 
Abode: Scotland Road


18 Aug 1879 All Saints, Wigan, Lancashire

Sarah Ellen Plum born 27 Jul
parents Joseph Plum occ waterman & Harriet

Abode: Lamberhead Green
 

2 Dec 1883 St John the Divine, Pemberton, Lancashire

Roshannah Plumb  born 19 Jun 1882
parents Joseph Plumb Occupation: Waterman & Harriet
Abode: Leader St. Pemberton 
above details from Lancashire OPC  

PLUMB, JOSEPH   mmn PRESCOTT
GRO Reference: 1874  J Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 08B  Page 40   

PLUM, SARAH  ELLEN   mmn PRESCOT
GRO Reference: 1879  S Quarter in WIGAN  Volume 08C  Page 122   

PLUM, ROSANNA   mmn PRESCOTT
GRO Reference: 1883  S Quarter in WIGAN  Volume 08C  Page 115
details from GRO indexes   

1881 census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q272-XRQV
1, Leader Street, Pemberton, Wigan, Lancashire
Joseph   Plumb   Head   Married   1833   Boatman (barge)   Northwich, Cheshire
Harriett   Plumb   Wife   Married   1850   Boatman wife   Widnes, Lancashire
Alice Ann   Plumb   Daughter   Single   1868   Spinner in cotton mill   Liverpool, Lancashire
Mary Elizabeth   Plumb   Daughter   Single   1871   Liverpool, Lancashire
Sarah Ellen   Plumb   Daughter   Single   1880   Pemberton, Lancashire

Burial: 9 Aug 1884 St John the Divine, Pemberton, Lancashire
Joseph Plumb age 51 Abode: Lamberhead Green Pemberton
details from Lancashire OPC

1891 24 Broom Street https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:7W6M-LMM

1901 24 Broom Street Wigan  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9GB-T75

When you are next back online please let us know what you think  :)


Title: Re: Great grandad
Post by: Chloebolton22 on Friday 09 December 22 18:37 GMT (UK)
Thanks everyone
Title: Re: Great grandad
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 09 December 22 23:36 GMT (UK)
So Eliza married the lodger !and had a child with him in 1882 william Williams

So first husband must have died ..or left between 1881 census and 1882
Title: Tracing deceased relatives
Post by: Chloebolton22 on Sunday 14 July 24 20:59 BST (UK)
Hi 👋 I’m tracing to find more on my relatives who are of my nans side of the family

James Henry Matthews
Born 12/08/1880 Pemberton, Lancashire Census 1911 Coal Miner Hewer
Census 1921 Miner (Getter)
Died 24/03/1960 Aged 80
Wigan, Lancashire

Roseanna Plum(b)
Born 19/06/1883 Wigan, Lancashire. Married 02/06/1906 St. Marks, Newtown, Wigan, Lancashire Census 1921 Home Duties
Death Registered Dec Qtr 1921 Aged 38 Wigan, Lancashire

Any information anyone can find of this post. Will be much appreciated and a great help
Title: Re: Tracing deceased relatives
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 14 July 24 21:14 BST (UK)
Transcript of marriage at Lancashire OPC

Marriage: 2 Jun 1906 St Mark, Newtown, Pemberton, Lancashire
James Henry Matthews - 26, Collier, Bachelor, 20 Sarginson St.
Roseanna Plum - (X), 22, Spinner, Spinster, 7 Soho St.
    Groom's Father: John Matthews, deceased, Collier
    Bride's Father: Joseph Plum, deceased, Ship's Captain
    Witnesses: James Orme; Margaret Orme
    Married by Banns by F. C. Shirtcliff Curate
    Register: Marriages 1903 - 1914, Page 63, Entry 125


All the advice on your other posts applicable here for getting further forward or back as you wish.
Title: Re: Tracing deceased relatives
Post by: Chloebolton22 on Sunday 14 July 24 21:37 BST (UK)
Hi, thanks for this information so far.

On the last sense at the bottom what did you mean by going back or forward?
Title: Re: Tracing deceased relatives
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 14 July 24 21:46 BST (UK)
Well, are you trying to find their parents and brothers & sisters.or their children?
So back for ancestors and forward for descendants.

I presume, since you have their exact births that you have their birth certificates.
(If not, where did the birth info come from?)

So you already know their mother’s names?
And can use the GROnsite to find siblings
And use the various name combinations to find them in the census
Title: Re: Tracing deceased relatives
Post by: Chloebolton22 on Sunday 14 July 24 21:57 BST (UK)
Hi,

My Nan has the census of the name that’s how I know this
Title: Re: Tracing deceased relatives
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 14 July 24 22:03 BST (UK)
Hi,

My Nan has the census of the name that’s how I know this

So indeed, you already know more information than you posted.
(A census doesn’t have birth dates on it. It just has believed ages.)

If there is a specific thing you wanted to find out that you have tried and failed to find yourself what is that?  And what have you looked at and ruled out?
Title: Re: Tracing deceased relatives
Post by: Chloebolton22 on Sunday 14 July 24 22:14 BST (UK)
I would like to try to find the family members of jhon matthews along with the plumb family. And their jobs, addresses, weddings or any other places they have lived at or war records
Title: Re: Tracing deceased relatives
Post by: amondg on Sunday 14 July 24 23:23 BST (UK)
James Henry Matthews registered Wigan December quarter 1879 vol. 08C page 124

mother's maiden name Hopey   should be Opie/Opey

John Matthews married Eliza Opey 1864 Merthyr Tydfil

children with mothers maiden name OPIE
John reg. 1865 Merthyr T
Laura Jane reg Merthyr  T 1866  -- died 1868 age 2 reg. Pontypridd
Prudence  cannot find registration, bap. 18 June 1868 Penryn Cornwall (listed as Priscilla 1881)
Laura Jane  reg. 1870 Pontypridd  (Louisa 1881)
Joseph reg Pontypridd 1872
Elizabeth Ellen reg. Pontypridd 1874
Harriet  reg. Pontypridd  1875
William Henry  reg. Wigan 1878  - died 1879 reg. Wigan
James Henry  reg. Wigan 1879 (mmn Hopey)

1871 census Merthyr Tydfil, 6 Carodoc Street.
John Matthews 35 born Newton Devon
Eliza 27   born Male? Cornwall
John  6    born Merthyr T
Prudence 3   born Cornwall
Laura Jane 1   
James Opie 28 Stone mason  - Lodger born Cornwall   (he is possibly Eliza's brother)
Title: Re: Tracing deceased relatives
Post by: amondg on Sunday 14 July 24 23:30 BST (UK)
There is a Jn. Matthews with wife and children under workhouse records 1872-1876 Glamorgan

receiving money for food.
Ref: ancestry
Title: Re: Tracing deceased relatives
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 14 July 24 23:39 BST (UK)
Much information previously found

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=867640.0
Title: Deceased relatives
Post by: Chloebolton22 on Wednesday 01 January 25 12:07 GMT (UK)
Hey 👋 hope you are all well

I’m looking for help to find 2 relatives who are now dead. Just to know where they lived and their families or children if possible. Or anything that you may find

James Henry Matthews
Born 12/08/1880 Pemberton, Lancashire
Census 1911 Coal Miner Hewer
Census 1921 Miner (Getter)
Died 24/03/1960
Wigan, Lancashire

Roseanna Plum(b)
Born 19/06/1883 Wigan, Lancashire.
Married 02/06/1906 St. Marks,
Newtown, Wigan, Lancashire
Census 1921 Home Duties
Death Registered Dec Qtr 1921
Aged 38 Wigan, Lancashire
Title: Re: Deceased relatives
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 01 January 25 15:44 GMT (UK)
There is a grave reference on find a grave but it is transcribed as ‘John Henry Matthews’ with the same death date.
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01tka/
Looking at the photograph though, it is James but born 1884.
His son, Wilfred is also mentioned.ldo you have this information in 1911?
Are you looking for his descendants as you have 1911 and 1921?
Title: Re: Deceased relatives
Post by: louisa maud on Wednesday 01 January 25 15:45 GMT (UK)
You are showing  census dates, you can get  the info you need from  the census.

LM
Title: Re: Deceased relatives
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 01 January 25 15:55 GMT (UK)
In 1911, Wilfred, the son of James and Rosanna, is entered as ‘daughter’ and ‘Winifred’ on the census page. ‘Son’ has been crossed out and overwritten with ‘daughter’.
Title: Re: Deceased relatives
Post by: louisa maud on Wednesday 01 January 25 16:00 GMT (UK)
I think you  made a previous request in July unless I am wrong .

LM
Title: Re: Deceased relatives
Post by: Chloebolton22 on Wednesday 01 January 25 16:04 GMT (UK)
Yes I am looking for his descendants
Title: Re: Deceased relatives
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 01 January 25 16:04 GMT (UK)
I think you  made a previous request in July unless I am wrong .

LM

Here it is LM, with several replies  :)
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=884231.

Moderator comment: topics merged
Title: Re: Deceased relatives
Post by: Chloebolton22 on Wednesday 01 January 25 16:05 GMT (UK)
Yes I looking for his descendants
Title: Re: Deceased relatives
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 01 January 25 16:28 GMT (UK)
People have found information for you on that other post but you have not commented on it to suggest that you need more information on parts of it.  It is not a good idea to start another post on the same topic as it means we spend our time looking for information that you have already been given.
Title: Re: Deceased relatives
Post by: louisa maud on Wednesday 01 January 25 16:34 GMT (UK)
None of us mind helping but it  is double the work if it has already been done,  part of the chase is the thrill of finding these things out yourself once you get a bit if information to go on.
Happy hunting

LM
Title: Re: Deceased relatives
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 01 January 25 16:36 GMT (UK)
Yes I am looking for his descendants

Have you looked for children and marriages and so on?
Title: Re: Deceased relatives
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 01 January 25 16:38 GMT (UK)
In 1911, Wilfred, the son of James and Rosanna, is entered as ‘daughter’ and ‘Winifred’ on the census page. ‘Son’ has been crossed out and overwritten with ‘daughter’.

I also thought the names were familiar - posted a snippet showing son crossed out

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=867640.0

Moderator comment: topics merged
Title: Re: Deceased relativesh
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 01 January 25 17:06 GMT (UK)
Apologies to researchers if this has been posted in the other threads.
As the headstone mentions ‘our’ parent, presumably Wilfred and Ellen had more than one child. I can see at least two in the indexes but we cannot post names as they may still be living.

Chloe, have you looked for them in the records and for any children?

I see you have left the forum now, i was hoping you would reply. It is best to post what you already know and acknowledge information provided. It saves unnecessary searching.
Title: Re: Deceased relatives
Post by: Neale1961 on Wednesday 01 January 25 21:53 GMT (UK)

I’m looking for help to find 2 relatives who are now dead. Just to know where they lived and their families or children if possible. Or anything that you may find

Information about this family was posted for you here
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=884231.msg7572020#msg7572020
 
and a lot more here
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=867640.0

Moderator comments: links no longer valid - topics merged

The information posted for you answers your questions. Census records show you where they lived, and their occupations, and the names of everyone in the family.