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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: hoople on Tuesday 15 November 22 20:14 GMT (UK)

Title: James Family - Hawkers
Post by: hoople on Tuesday 15 November 22 20:14 GMT (UK)
Edward and Jane James had children,

Samuel, 1906 born Louth.
Harriet, 1909 born Tipperary.
Elias, 1910 born Cork.
Edward, 1915 born Cork.
Ishmael, 1917 born Cork.
Arthur, 1918 born Limerick.
Any info. on any of these births would be most welcome. All travelled back and forth from Holyhead, Wales. Cannot find on 1911 census in Ireland or England/Wales.
Title: Re: James Family - Hawkers
Post by: heywood on Tuesday 15 November 22 22:50 GMT (UK)
This would be the site to search
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/

However, I cannot see any registrations. I see the birthplaces in the 1921 census though.
Do you have Jane’s maiden name or their marriage details?
Edward shows as born Anglesey in 1874 and Jane in Shropshire in 1882.

The index shows the 1915 birth as Edith not Edward. Is that right?
Title: Re: James Family - Hawkers
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 16 November 22 11:53 GMT (UK)
On RootsIreland (subscription)
Harriet baptised 1 Aug 1909, Methodist in Cloughjordon, home address Whitechurch.
Mother Jane's surname not recorded
Father Edward

Can't find any of the others.
Title: Re: James Family - Hawkers
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 16 November 22 13:31 GMT (UK)
Doubt this is the correct couple as no children shown

There is a 1900 marriage Atcham - Edward John James & Jane Medlicott

Freebmd has a Jane Medlicott b Atcham 1877.  1891 shows birthplace Dorrington

1901 Jane James 23 married b Dorrington working as a general servant in Shropshire
1911 Jane James 33 married b Dorrington - housekeeper

Title: Re: James Family - Hawkers
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 16 November 22 16:40 GMT (UK)
On RootsIreland (subscription)
Harriet baptised 1 Aug 1909, Methodist in Cloughjordon, home address Whitechurch.
Mother Jane's surname not recorded
Father Edward

Can't find any of the others.

That’s good Sinann but no birth or mother’s name.  :(
At least the birthplace matches the 1921 census.
Title: Re: James Family - Hawkers
Post by: hoople on Wednesday 16 November 22 19:50 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all the replies.

Heywood,  I saw the 1921 census entry and I've tried the Irishgeneology website, no luck. The 1915 birth is Edward.
Carole,  I don't think Jane is the Medlicott marriage; as you say, there are no children listed. There is another marriage in 1901, in Cardigan, to a Jane Evans. It is a possibility, as the first two children were born there.
Sinann,  That is great. At least one of the offspring found. Could I ask you, do you think the residence of Whitechurch is the one in Co. Cork, or could it be Whitchurch in Shropshire?

Thanks to all once again.
Title: Re: James Family - Hawkers
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 16 November 22 19:58 GMT (UK)
I assumed it was in the area of Cloughjordan Tipperary, but need to have a closer look, there is a Whitechurch in Tipperary but it's quite a distance from Cloughjordan
Title: Re: James Family - Hawkers
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 16 November 22 20:17 GMT (UK)
Can't find a Whitechurch near Cloughjordan, unless it's an unrecorded local name, but if they had already moved to Cork why on earth go all the way to Cloughjordan for the baptism.

RootsIreland records are only transcripts so there is always the danger of errors.
Title: Re: James Family - Hawkers
Post by: heywood on Wednesday 16 November 22 20:22 GMT (UK)
Did they register any children born in England or Wales?
Title: Re: James Family - Hawkers
Post by: hoople on Thursday 17 November 22 01:17 GMT (UK)
Hello everybody, no, they have not registered any children born in England or Wales, as far as I know. Remember, they are Travelling Hawkers and have children baptised when and where they are able. Not necessarily in the place they were born. This has continued up to the present day.
Sinann, it would seem that they moved to Cork from around 1910 to 1917, after Harriet's baptism in Tipperary.
One son, Samuel, b.1906, married in Holyhead in 1933, and a few months later married the same woman, Mary Bernes, in Bray! You can see what I'm up against.     
Title: Re: James Family - Hawkers
Post by: Sinann on Thursday 17 November 22 04:22 GMT (UK)
I see that's a RC marriage, there is a good chance the church record of the marriage has his mother's maiden surname, worth a try.
Title: Re: James Family - Hawkers
Post by: heywood on Thursday 17 November 22 08:16 GMT (UK)
Are these children part of the family (from 1921)?

Jane James abt 1902 b Cardiganshire
John James abt 1904, b Cardiganshire
Title: Re: James Family - Hawkers
Post by: hoople on Thursday 17 November 22 15:37 GMT (UK)
Heywood,  Jane (born 1902) married Samuel Evans in Mullingar, Westmeath, Sept.19th. 1928 (father Edward - no fixed abode). I have not found any other reference to John James, apart from that 1921 census.
The family do not appear in the 1939 Register, so I assume they are still in Ireland.

Sinann,  the church record could be a chance. Obviously, there is no indication on the marriage certificate. I will try to find the Church of Bray register for 1933.
Many thanks to everyone again for your help.
Title: Re: James Family - Hawkers
Post by: hoople on Thursday 17 November 22 15:39 GMT (UK)
Finding the maiden name of Jane James, born c.1882, Shropshire, is the key.
Title: Re: James Family - Hawkers
Post by: heywood on Thursday 17 November 22 15:47 GMT (UK)
Finding the maiden name of Jane James, born c.1882, Shropshire, is the key.

That may be as difficult if she, too, was  from a travelling family. She may not have been registered or included in censuses.

For other researchers, here is Jane’s marriage
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1928/09086/5286925.pdf
Title: Re: James Family - Hawkers
Post by: heywood on Thursday 17 November 22 15:51 GMT (UK)
Harriet’s marriage -Limerick
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1934/08968/5246091.pdf
Title: Re: James Family - Hawkers
Post by: Sinann on Thursday 17 November 22 16:07 GMT (UK)
You won't find the Bray register online and RootsIreland doesn't go that far for marriages, you'll need to contact the church and hope they are willing to help.
You can see here https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633720#page/76/mode/1up that mother's maiden names were recorded. Of course, it depends on the priest on the day and what Samuel told him.
Title: Re: James Family - Hawkers
Post by: hoople on Thursday 17 November 22 16:14 GMT (UK)
Thank you Sinann, I shall endeavour to contact the church with fingers crossed.