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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => England => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: scottsinclair on Saturday 12 November 22 11:05 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I'm unable to find my ancestor John Henry Greaves, born 1844 in the 1861 census.
In 1851 he was in Edward Street / Union Street (sic), and in 1871 he was in Collier Street. A birth record from 1870 suggests he was in Brook street at that time.
I can't for the life of me find him in 1861 which is really frustrating. To make it a bit more complex, his father was also called John Greaves / Graves and his son was also John Henry Greaves, so of course the birth year is all we really have to distinguish him at that point.
Any ideas?
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Exactly where is he in 1851 and 1871?
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Exactly where is he in 1851 and 1871?
1851: 7 Union Street / Edward Street, Sculcoates, Yorkshire, England
1871: 18 collier street, providence place, Hull, Yorkshire, England
Thanks
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Thanks
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You quote this address in 1871
1871: 18 collier street, providence place, Hull, Yorkshire, England.
At this address is
John GRAVES aged 30 born Hull
Elizabeth Graves aged 22 born Hull
Ada Graves aged 0 born Hull
GRAVES, ADA mmn YOUNG
GRO Reference: 1870 D Quarter in HULL Volume 09D Page 203
Marriages Jun 1870
Graves John Hull 9d 305
Rogerson William Hull 9d 305
WILSON Mary Jane Hull 9d 305
YOUNG Ann Elizabeth Hull 9d 305
3 records, 3 Graves no Greaves.
John
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Just an observation, John was born 1840 not 1844 as per your opening post. He is aged 9 in 1851 census, aged 30 in 1871, 38 in 1881(in Prison). He dies aged 72 in 1912.
John
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You quote this address in 1871
1871: 18 collier street, providence place, Hull, Yorkshire, England.
At this address is
John GRAVES aged 30 born Hull
Elizabeth Graves aged 22 born Hull
Ada Graves aged 0 born Hull
GRAVES, ADA mmn YOUNG
GRO Reference: 1870 D Quarter in HULL Volume 09D Page 203
Marriages Jun 1870
Graves John Hull 9d 305
Rogerson William Hull 9d 305
WILSON Mary Jane Hull 9d 305
YOUNG Ann Elizabeth Hull 9d 305
3 records, 3 Graves no Greaves.
John
Hi, yes that's right. The name only seems to have settled as "Greaves" spelling in the late 1800s.
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1851 census 7 Union Street
John Graves 30 Shipwright
Dorothy 28
John 9
Catherine 8
Sarah Ann 3
Robert 14 months
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John Graves married Dorothy Lee 1845 in Hull, so the first 2 children have a different mother.
GRO index
Graves Joseph* Graves no mother's maiden name 1840 registered Sculcoates
Graves Catherine Graves no mother's maiden name 1843 registered Sculcoates
Graves, Sarah Ann 1848 mother's maiden name LEE
Graves, Robert 1849 mother's maiden name LEE
ADDED
There is a John Graves who married Dorothy Graves 26 November 1838 at Kirby Wharf witness Joseph Graves and Ann Graves.
Re possibilty first 2 children
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John Graves who married Dorothy Lee 14 January 1845, Holy Trinity Kingston Upon Hull
Father is ROBERT GRAVES
Her father Francis LEE
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1841 Edward Street Kingston Upon Hull
Catherine "Greens" 45 (sp) ink is smudged transcribed as
John 20 Shipwright
both born in county
Next door is a John Railey age 90 corn maker born in County
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Robert Graves married Catherine Reyler 13 September 1818 Holy Trinity Kingston Upon Hull
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1861 census- 16 Charles Square, Sculcoates, Kingston Upon Hull
John Graves 38 Shipwright born Hull
Catherine Graves 68 mother /widowed
Catherine 17 Milliner
Robert 11 scholar
Maria 7 scholar
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amondg, I too thought John & Catherine had a different mother. However the poster has a tree on anc* with Catherine's birth cert shown and mother is recorded as Dorothy Lee.
John
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John Graves (Lee) with mother Dorothy in 1841.
Piece: 1231
Book: 5
Folio: 18
Page number: 29
Household Members (Name) Age
Dorothy Lee 49
Ellenor Lee 21
Dorothy Lee 19
George Lee 10
John Lee 1 Month
Elizabeth Hutchergh 22
A possible birth for John as he is aged only 1 month in 1841
LEE, JOHN LEONARD PEARSON mmn CRO...
GRO Reference: 1841 J Quarter in SCULCOATES Volume 22 Page 499
added: forget this birth as he dies 1907
John
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1841 Edward Street Kingston Upon Hull
Catherine "Greens" 45 (sp) ink is smudged transcribed as
John 20 Shipwright
both born in county
Next door is a John Railey age 90 corn maker born in County
I like this one; looking at my tree I was unable to locate his mother Catherine in the 1841 census, this would fit in terms of age, occupation, and her marital status. Of course in 1851 John was also on Edward Street. This also provides a location for John Reylar (spelling all over the place in records for this surname), who I otherwise would have presumed to be dead.
slight amendment: The occupation would match that of his father (Shipwright); it's possible he started out in this though. I'm wondering to compare the neighbours either side on the census with those in 1851 which would confirm.
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1861 census- 16 Charles Square, Sculcoates, Kingston Upon Hull
John Graves 38 Shipwright born Hull
Catherine Graves 68 mother /widowed
Catherine 17 Milliner
Robert 11 scholar
Maria 7 scholar
Hi, yes this one is his father. It's nice they have 3 generations with the same name, it's also confusing when some were alive at the same time.
Thanks
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Rule 1 in family history never trust another's tree, always verify.
To know for sure who Catherine's mother is order the birth certificate proof is better than supposition
Graves, Catherine Graves, March Quarter 1843 registration Sculcoates Vol. 22 page 528
It will give you the mother's maiden name and the address where they were living at the time.
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Amongst, rule 2 is to read the post fully and correctly. The actual birth cert image for Catherine can be viewed on posters tree on ancestry
John
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A possibility in 1861 is in a Reformatory in Malton - RG9/3628/58/24
J G aged 19? Labourer b Hull
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johnhood. Point taken.
In my defense I don't look at ancestry trees as they are usually wrong.