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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: pholahan on Monday 07 November 22 19:41 GMT (UK)
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I have a major brick wall with my GGrandfather, George Richard Holahan. He was born between 1858 and 1862 to James Holahan and Ellen Howard, both of whom were Irish born. His death certificate indicates he was born in Manchester, however I am unable to find any record related to him in any Lancashire resource I have used. Any help in breaking through this decades old brick wall would be deeply appreciated.
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To start this off:
- Whom did George marry and when?
- When and where did George die?
- Have you found George and his parents on the census? If so, could you please give details so we know we are looking at the right people.
- What are the names of his siblings (if he had any)?
Queenie :)
I found the answers to these questions on the FamilySearch profile :)
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I see no one responded on your earlier post about this family, so welcome to RootsChat!
I have found your FamilySearch profile for George. In future, it would be helpful to add it to your post, as it shows us what you have already discovered and avoids repetition.
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/about/LRZL-L5Y
For others, his death certificate provides a birth date of 22 June 1857 and gives his parents as James Holahan and Ellen Howard.
Queenie :)
Below is pholahan's previous post:
My 2 Grandmother, Ellen Howard, was born in Clonaslee around 1834 and I have been unable to verify any information on her via birth/baptismal records. She married James Holahan, who may also have been from Clonaslee and again I have not been able to find any record of their marriage. Would there be any local sources that I could explore that might help me discover the information I seek? Any advise is deeply appreciated, as I have been researching these ancestors for many years.
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I see no one responded on your earlier post about this family, so welcome to RootsChat!
I have found your FamilySearch profile for George. In future, it would be helpful to add it to your post, as it shows us what you have already discovered and avoids repetition.
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/about/LRZL-L5Y
For others, his death certificate provides a birth date of 22 June 1857 and gives his parents as James Holahan and Ellen Howard.
Queenie :)
Below is pholahan's previous post:
My 2 Grandmother, Ellen Howard, was born in Clonaslee around 1834 and I have been unable to verify any information on her via birth/baptismal records. She married James Holahan, who may also have been from Clonaslee and again I have not been able to find any record of their marriage. Would there be any local sources that I could explore that might help me discover the information I seek? Any advise is deeply appreciated, as I have been researching these ancestors for many years.
The Family Search profile is generated by the website and is not necessarily accurate in the truest sense. Also, as anyone can edit the profile, the information presented isn't necessarily information that I have found. In my research of George Richard Holahan I have found references to several different years of his birth, i.e., the implied birth years from U.S. Census records: 1858, 1859, 1861, 1862 with some census years indicating a year of birth, not just his age. His certificate of death lists his birth date as 22 June 1857, as you have noted. His death certificate is the only official document I have found that indicates his birth date. If I could locate a birth or baptism record it could help in not only verifying his birth date but possibly give me information on where in Ireland his father is from. As of now I only have anecdotal information.
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Have you tried "Manchester Ancestors" (Manchester & Lancashire Family History Society)?
https://mlfhs.uk
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Have you searched under variants of the surname, including those starting with a different letter, e.g. Olleron, Wholohan?
Have you looked for a birth registration without a forename?
Howard might have been mistaken for the common Lancashire surname Howarth/Haworth, depending on pronunciation.
Did George have any siblings born in England or Ireland?
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There is this marriage in Manchester - register office or registrar attended
June quarter 1857 Manchester vol 8d pg 656
James Horan and Ellen Howard
There is then a birth in Manchester
George Horne with mother Howard
September quarter 1858 Manchester 8d pg 92
I can’t link any of these to 1861 censuses and there are several similar names.
There is also a George Horahan b 1859 with mother Howe.
Also this George at 1861 2964 /131/55
George Horan 2 yrs with parents Thomas and Mary.
I can’t see a marriage in Manchester to check Mary’s surname.
https://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php
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Have you searched under variants of the surname, including those starting with a different letter, e.g. Olleron, Wholohan?
Have you looked for a birth registration without a forename?
Howard might have been mistaken for the common Lancashire surname Howarth/Haworth, depending on pronunciation.
Did George have any siblings born in England or Ireland?
I have searched surname variations, but none that started with a letter other than "H". I have also searched without using a forename. According to a U.S. Census, Ellen had 3 children, of which only 1 was living. Searching FreeBMD I found Sarah Jane Holahan, June 1859, Bolton, Catherine Holahan, March 1862, Bolton, and Ann Holahan, June 1863, W Derby. I did order the certificates for Catherine and Ann and they did not match my ancestors.
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Lancs opc,
St Patrick Collyhurst
Catherine Horan
born 30th October baptised 20th November 1859,
father James
mother Ellen formally Howard,
god parents William Dunn and Ann Bohan,
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Ann Horan
born 27th December 1863
baptised 17th Jan 1864
same parents as above
Godparents Martin and Mary Dun
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Lancashire BMD\James Horan and Ellen Howard marriage \
Manchester Register office or registrar attended 1857
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Lancs opc,
St Patrick Collyhurst
Catherine Horan
born 30th October baptised 20th November 1859,
father James
mother Ellen formally Howard,
god parents William Dunn and Ann Bohan,
-------------------------------------------------
Ann Horan
born 27th December 1863
baptised 17th Jan 1864
same parents as above
Godparents Martin and Mary Dun
Oh my!! You may have helped me break through a brick wall that I've had since I started my research in the mid 1980's! Dunne was a very familiar name in County Laois, Ireland, particularly from Clonaslee, where my 2ggrandmother was born. I cannot thank you enough!
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Good finds Radcliffe.
I mentioned the marriage in reply #6 and a possible birth for George with mmn Howard but as spellings vary so much it is difficult.
I can’t see them as yet in 1861 and had thought they had perhaps already emigrated.
However, the birth of Ann in 1864 changes that.
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1861 2935 /32/25
Martin Dunn 28 yrs Stone Cutter b Queens County, Ireland
Mary Dunn 20 yrs b Kilkenny
Agness Dunn 2 yrs b Manchester
*baptism shows Mary’s maiden name as Rochford
*So there is the Laois connection and I think I recall seeing that James was a stone Mason?
1861 2963 /98/14
William and Bridget Dunn (both b Ireland) with children, George 5 yrs, Mary Ann 3 yrs and William 1 yr.
William Patrick’s baptism (Lancs opc) shows mother as Bridget Horan and Godparents Matthew Horan and Elizabeth Dunn.
The children*s births in GRO register all show Horan so there is the doubt about the surname given that we are looking for Holahan.
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For future reference:
These are some of the names of men who were in Bury Barracks in 1851
88th Regiment
All born Ireland
Joseph Hanolon 27
Patt Halloran 24
Daniel Hourigan 26
James Houlihan 22
Patt Horan 21
George Huffan 24
Stephen Horan 21
George Hanaonk 20
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"George Richard Holahan.......implied birth years from U.S. Census records: 1858, 1859, 1861, 1862 with some census years indicating a year of birth, not just his age. "
For each Census record where you see your George Richard HOLAHAN can you describe the family you see....names, ages, address etc. It would be useful to see these Census records.
There should be one that records naturalisation....yes/no...year of......also year of arrival.
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Manchester Ancestors
This may be a red herring
Ellen ward is noted as mother of
George Holden
Who was baptised St Patrick’s Collyhurst in 1861
On Lancashire OPC
George Holden
Born 16 th April 1861 baptised
28 th
Father James Holden mother Ellen Ward
Godparents Edward Doyle and Sarah Ward
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If this is your George he was born after the 1861 census was taken
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From my earlier post:
There is then a birth in Manchester
George Horne with mother Howard
September quarter 1858 Manchester 8d pg 92
This might be worth following up :-\
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Wivenhoe, here are some records
1880 census
George Holahan 22 yrs
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MZ8V-R92
George R Hoolahan - marriage
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2CN-94WX
George R - death
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WTK-BC4
1900 census George - immigration date 1868
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MSFD-VWP
1900 Ellen and James
Ellen immigration date 1868 - James immigration date 1866
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MSF8-KQX
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There is this marriage in Manchester - register office or registrar attended
June quarter 1857 Manchester vol 8d pg 656
James Horan and Ellen Howard
There is then a birth in Manchester
George Horne with mother Howard
September quarter 1858 Manchester 8d pg 92
I can’t link any of these to 1861 censuses and there are several similar names.
There is also a George Horahan b 1859 with mother Howe.
Also this George at 1861 2964 /131/55
George Horan 2 yrs with parents Thomas and Mary.
I can’t see a marriage in Manchester to check Mary’s surname.
https://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php
Thank you. I have also not found any record of James, with many varied surname spellings, and Ellen in the 1861 census. Wivenhoe, here are some records
1880 census
George Holahan 22 yrs
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MZ8V-R92
George R Hoolahan - marriage
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2CN-94WX
George R - death
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WTK-BC4
1900 census George - immigration date 1868
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MSFD-VWP
1900 Ellen and James
Ellen immigration date 1868 - James immigration date 1866
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MSF8-KQX
Thank you. I already have these records in my Ancestry file.
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If this is your George he was born after the 1861 census was taken
I would think that James and Ellen would be present in the 1861 Census, but I have not found them using many variations of the surname.
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I posted those US records for others who are trying to help. As you see wivenhoe was asking and it helps if we can see other related records.
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If that is your family, baptising children at St Patrick’s, the sponsors are living around Ancoats are so you would hope they were there.
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I posted those US records for others who are trying to help. As you see wivenhoe was asking and it helps if we can see other related records.
Ah, thank you!
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Wivenhoe, here are some records
1880 census
George Holahan 22 yrs
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MZ8V-R92
George R Hoolahan - marriage
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2CN-94WX
George R - death
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WTK-BC4
1900 census George - immigration date 1868
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MSFD-VWP
1900 Ellen and James
Ellen immigration date 1868 - James immigration date 1866
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MSF8-KQX
1870 US Census James, Ellen, and George
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M8KY-SMX
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Good finds Radcliffe.
I mentioned the marriage in reply #6 and a possible birth for George with mmn Howard but as spellings vary so much it is difficult.
I can’t see them as yet in 1861 and had thought they had perhaps already emigrated.
However, the birth of Ann in 1864 changes that.
My records indicate that James emigrated in 1866, with Ellen and George following in 1868.
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Yes I found the same on censuses. Do you have migration records?
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Yes I found the same on censuses. Do you have migration records?
I only have the years that were indicated in 1900 US Census record. Family lore has it that either James or Ellen came to New York on the City of Baltimore, but I have not found them on any passenger list from either that ship or any other ship.
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1861 2935 /32/25
Martin Dunn 28 yrs Stone Cutter b Queens County, Ireland
Mary Dunn 20 yrs b Kilkenny
Agness Dunn 2 yrs b Manchester
*baptism shows Mary’s maiden name as Rochford
*So there is the Laois connection and I think I recall seeing that James was a stone Mason?
1861 2963 /98/14
William and Bridget Dunn (both b Ireland) with children, George 5 yrs, Mary Ann 3 yrs and William 1 yr.
William Patrick’s baptism (Lancs opc) shows mother as Bridget Horan and Godparents Matthew Horan and Elizabeth Dunn.
The children*s births in GRO register all show Horan so there is the doubt about the surname given that we are looking for Holahan.
Can you direct me to the source for the above? I have searched Ancestry, Family Search, and Find My Past and cannot find Martin's record. I have found William and Bridget's record, but not Martin and Mary.
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I can’t see it on Family Search either :-\
Have you tried using the reference on Ancestry - piece 2935, folio 32, page 25.
I just tried that and it works.
Looking at the original, it is poor handwriting and could read ‘Quinn’ perhaps but there is a birth for Agnes with mmn Rochford - Lancs BMD.
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Ancestry Census 1900 USA at Kent Avenue Brooklyn New York City Ward 7
HOLAHAN James b. Mar 1835 age 65 years.......married 42 years
Born Ireland......father born Ireland......mother born Ireland....occupation stone mason
Arrived 1866.......years in USA 36 can read...can write
Children born....3 children living....1
HOLAHAN Ellen b. Aug 1834 age 65 years.....married 42 years
born Ireland.....father born Ireland......mother born Ireland
Arrived 1868.......years in USA 34 can read...can write
Children born....3 children living....1
There should be two children, additional to George Richard, born before 1866 in......England?...Ireland?
or....born New York?....after 1868?
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Lancs opc,
St Patrick Collyhurst
Catherine Horan
born 30th October baptised 20th November 1859,
father James
mother Ellen formally Howard,
god parents William Dunn and Ann Bohan,
-------------------------------------------------
Ann Horan
born 27th December 1863
baptised 17th Jan 1864
same parents as above
Godparents Martin and Mary Dun
I posted this birth earlier
1858 George Horne mmn Howard , Ancoats district, Manchester
I can’t spot a birth for Catherine, above, but there is this birth for Ann.
Lancs BMD
1864 Hanora Horan Mmn Howard St George district , Manchester
Free BMD Manchester 1864 March quarter 8d 271
There are two deaths in 1864 - St George
Catherine Horan 5 yrs
Hanora Horan 0 yrs
The only way to see if these are Holohan children would be birth certificates, I think.