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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Korowe on Thursday 03 November 22 21:39 GMT (UK)
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Hi All,
I'm looking for for the parents or siblings of a Henry Whitlock born circa 1849 in possibly London or Dorset depending on the census records. The earliest census I find him is 1891, then 1901 and 1911, living in central London around the Strand/Covent Garden with occupation Herbalist.
His first "wife" is Mary Ann Meakings (my fathers Great Great Aunt) to which he has 3 sons, Thomas (1875-1926), Walter (1877-1911) and Robert (1879-1956).I've been unable to find a marriage entry in the church records or a civil marriage entry. I have DNA matches confirmed through the family lines of sons Thomas and Robert. Henry goes on to marry a Elizabeth Mary Everett in in 1893, she was previously married to a David George Hinds and they had a son David William. The marriage entry in the church records notes Henry's father as a Thomas Whitlock, a mariner. In one census it indicates he has an adopted daughter an Elizabeth Byard (no birth records on her)
I have not been able to find any Birth Records or Baptism entries for the 3 sons, so I'm not certain they are even his sons. I believe they are the sons of Mary Ann because of my DNA matches. I have not been able to find any census data for Henry or his father Thomas prior to 1891 or any birth/baptism entries. He seems to have appeared out of nowhere!
I've searched MyHeritage, Ancestry, FindMyPast, FREEBMD, any ideas on where I else I can check to find information on this man of mystery!
NOTE: the surname Whitlock is often badly transcribed as "Whillock"
Many thanks
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In one census it indicates he has an adopted daughter an Elizabeth Byard (no birth records on her)
The 1901 census states that she was born St Giles, so yes there is a birth registration.
Birth
BYARD, ELIZABETH
Mother's maiden surname: MULLINS
GRO Reference: 1895 D Quarter in ST GILES Volume 01B Page 626
Marriages Jun 1885
BYARD, Alfred
MULLINS, Matilda Celia
The mother Matilda died in 1897, so probably just a child in need of a home.
Debra :)
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Are you aware of this marriage?
5 Apr 1874 St Saviour, Hoxton
Mary Ann MEAKINS to Thomas VANHACKOVENS
Her father – William, a chair maker
His Father – Thomas, a seaman
Witness - James Serjeant ! :)
Birth registration for three sons:
VANHACKOVENS, THOMAS Mother: MEEKING
GRO Reference: 1874 S Quarter in STRAND Volume 01B Page 615
VANHACKOVENS, WALTER WHITLOCK Mother: MEAKINS
GRO Reference: 1876 S Quarter in STRAND Volume 01B Page 648
VANHACKOVENS, ROBERT Mother: MEAKINS
GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in ST SAVIOUR SURREY Volume 01D Page 85
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Poor school records, 1854 London:
William Vanhackovens age 10 and Thomas Vanhackovens age 4
Father in the Workhouse
Chargeable to Cornhill Parish
(1850, Cornhill is place of birth given for Henry Whitlock in 1901 census)
I suspect (but cannot prove yet) their mother may have been a Whitlock.
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Well done, Neale1961. My guess would be that Thomas is the husband's son, and Walter and Robert are Henry's children.
Henry states "don't know" and "not known" for place of birth in 1891 and 1911, so 1901 might just be where he lived as a child?
...... 1911, living in central London around the Strand/Covent Garden with occupation Herbalist.
In 1891 he is Assistant to Herbalist, in 1901 Herbalist Warehouseman and in 1911 Herbalist's Warehouseman.
Debra :)
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Are you aware of this marriage?
5 Apr 1874 St Saviour, Hoxton
Mary Ann MEAKINS to Thomas VANHACKOVENS
Her father – William, a chair maker
His Father – Thomas, a seaman
Witness - James Serjeant ! :)
Birth registration for three sons:
VANHACKOVENS, THOMAS Mother: MEEKING
GRO Reference: 1874 S Quarter in STRAND Volume 01B Page 615
VANHACKOVENS, WALTER WHITLOCK Mother: MEAKINS
GRO Reference: 1876 S Quarter in STRAND Volume 01B Page 648
VANHACKOVENS, ROBERT Mother: MEAKINS
GRO Reference: 1879 M Quarter in ST SAVIOUR SURREY Volume 01D Page 85
Oh my goodness that is a breakthrough! Thank you so much. So with the reference of "WHITLOCK" the registration for Walter would that mean he is son of Henry she has just given him her married name?
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There is no place on a birth cert for a surname for a registered child, Walter Whitlock are the child's two christian names. When they are indexed the surname used is that of a named father or the mother's surname if the father is not named.
You would need to see the actual certificate to see if a father is named. If he isn't then the mother would be named as Mary Ann VANHACKOVENS formerly MEAKINS.
Having said that, the VANHACKOVENS family are together in 1881 with three named MEAKINS in the same household. It is very difficult to read.
St Giles in the Fields
Piece 323
Folio 68
Page number 62
I am not sure if Neale1961 is following a hunch that Henry WHITLOCK is the same person as Thomas VANHACKOVENS.
Debra :)
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Having said that, the VANHACKOVENS family are together in 1881 with three named MEAKINS in the same household. It is very difficult to read.
I think it might be Mary Ann's brother Robert with his wife Frances (formerly WEBB) and son Thomas.
Debra :)
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Having said that, the VANHACKOVENS family are together in 1881 with three named MEAKINS in the same household. It is very difficult to read.
I think it might be Mary Ann's brother Robert with his wife Frances (formerly WEBB) and son Thomas.
Debra :)
Thank you very much Debra, this information has blown me away! I've found the census records and your correct, very difficult to read. I was just trying to work out which sibling it was with the 2 children and it makes sense its Robert.
Now to find out if Mr Whitlock is in fact Mr Vanhackovens. The names sounds very Dutch and has been badly anglicised.
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1881 census Little Wild St, St Giles in the Fields (my transcription)
? Thos? Vanhackovens head 31 labourer
M.Anne Vanhackovens wife 41
Wm Vanhackovens son 7 scholar
Walter Vanhackovens Son 4 scholar
Rbt Vanhackovens Son 1
- Meakins 30 Chair maker (married lodger) – I think this is Robert Meakins
F(rances)? Meakins Wife age?
Thos? Meakins Son 3
Yes I was thinking that Thomas Vanhackovens and Henry Whitlock could be the same person.
He was possibly named Thomas Henry, and took on the name Henry to avoid confusion with his father, Thomas. My theory - One parent was named Vanhackovens and the other was named Whitlock.
Very difficult to find much on Vanhackovens in London.
The 2 boys seem to have been in the poor school from about 1854 to 1861. Not surprising that Thomas/ Henry did not know where he was born. Possibly not born in England, but had some childhood memories of Cornhill parish in London.
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Another child – died the same year as born
VANHACKONENS, CAROLINE Mother: MEAKINS
GRO Reference: born 1881 S Quarter in ST. GILES Volume 01B Page 643
And her twin, died in 1883:
VANHACKONENS, ESTHER Mother: MEAKINS
GRO Reference: born 1881 S Quarter in ST. GILES Volume 01B Page 643
And another:
VAN HACKOVENS, LUCY Mother: MEAKINS
GRO Reference: born 1883 D Quarter in ST GILES Volume 01B Page 626
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Sorry, repeating.
Debra :)
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Death for Mary Ann
VANHACKOVENS, MARY ANN Age 52
GRO Reference: 1892 J Quarter in MARYLEBONE Volume 01A Page 392
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Mary Ann's mother was Caroline, so Henry/Thomas' might be Esther?
Debra :)
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Caroline and Esther were twins - Caroline death Sept.1881 and Esther death Jun.1883.
Cannot see a death for Lucy born Dec.1883 so what became of her?
Annette
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1881 census Little Wild St, St Giles in the Fields (my transcription)
? Thos? Vanhackovens head 31 labourer
M.Anne Vanhackovens wife 41
Wm Vanhackovens son 7 scholar
Walter Vanhackovens Son 4 scholar
Rbt Vanhackovens Son 1
- Meakins 30 Chair maker (married lodger) – I think this is Robert Meakins
F(rances)? Meakins Wife age?
Thos? Meakins Son 3
Yes I was thinking that Thomas Vanhackovens and Henry Whitlock could be the same person.
He was possibly named Thomas Henry, and took on the name Henry to avoid confusion with his father, Thomas. My theory - One parent was named Vanhackovens and the other was named Whitlock.
Very difficult to find much on Vanhackovens in London.
The 2 boys seem to have been in the poor school from about 1854 to 1861. Not surprising that Thomas/ Henry did not know where he was born. Possibly not born in England, but had some childhood memories of Cornhill parish in London.
Thank you so much for all of this, I'm blown away. I think the Meakins that are living with the Vanhackovens are Robert and 2 of his children Fanny Elizabeth age 7 and son Thomas age 3. The other children and his first wife Frances must of died. He married his second wife Catherine Cusick in 1897. I have to agree it is possible that they changed the family name to Whitlock, as Vanhackovens may have been too difficult to pronounce/spell, it sounds like a Dutch name to me. So maybe the mariner Thomas Vanhackovens married a lady by the name of Whitlock. And our Henry Whitlock changed his name to avoid confusion with his father, if his original name was Thomas Henry.
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Caroline and Esther were twins - Caroline death Sept.1881 and Esther death Jun.1883.
Cannot see a death for Lucy born Dec.1883 so what became of her?
Annette
Thank you Annette, that is very possible as Mary Ann had a mother named Caroline and also a younger sister.
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Another child – died the same year as born
VANHACKONENS, CAROLINE Mother: MEAKINS
GRO Reference: born 1881 S Quarter in ST. GILES Volume 01B Page 643
And her twin, died in 1883:
VANHACKONENS, ESTHER Mother: MEAKINS
GRO Reference: born 1881 S Quarter in ST. GILES Volume 01B Page 643
And another:
VAN HACKOVENS, LUCY Mother: MEAKINS
GRO Reference: born 1883 D Quarter in ST GILES Volume 01B Page 626
Mary has 2 younger sisters a Caroline who married James Serjeant and also a Esther who died as a baby 1855-1856) so she must of named the twins after her sisters.
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A little more has come to light on this. It seems that WHITLOCKs have a strong Dutch contingent of WITLOCs or WITLOXs so it may well be that Thomas married an indigenous WITLOC(X) in Holland and Thomas/Henry and William (and possibly others) were born there. A Dutch contact tells me that often the "Van" part is separate in Holland, but connected in Belgium, so there may be 2 Low Countries in which to search - and of course we may well have the anglicisied spelling of the Dutch name to contend with as well!
Robert Whitlock (nee Vanhackovens) was my maternal grandfather and spent much of his life in and around Tulse Hill in south London. Wounded in WW1 he had kept a day-by-day diary of 6 weeks in the trenches (complete with shrapnel hole) - an almost dispassionate record of survival in conditions that are hard to comprehend. Wounded again later on, he survived the war and died in 1956, having never really recovered from what we now recognise as PTSD. I only ever met him once but will hopefully publish the diary (once I've managed to interpret the minute handwiting) as a memorial of a man who was "just another piece of cannon-fodder".
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Thomas whitlock,Roberts brother was my ggrandfather he married Esther Burdett.and their daughter ester mary whitlock my nan married John foreman I sure I have seen a note where Robert got a letter from Thomas when he was in the trenches telling him of his marriage.
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Thomas whitlock,Roberts brother was my ggrandfather he married Esther Burdett.and their daughter ester mary whitlock my nan married John foreman I sure I have seen a note where Robert got a letter from Thomas when he was in the trenches telling him of his marriage.
Oh wow I've been talking to relatives of yours from the same line as Ester Mary Whitlock and also Robert's daughter Dorothy, we connected over DNA matches and have been exchanging emails for some time now. I'm more than happy to share my research with you and show you the family tree.
The actual surname for the family is "Ovens". The "Whitlock" name was actually the second Christian name given to Walter, the brother of Thomas and Robert. All three boys were born with the surname Vanhackovens and it is their father Thomas that married my 3 x great aunt Mary Ann Meakins. I then discovered that this Thomas Vanhackovens, was actually baptised as Thomas Van-hack, with the surname Ovens. His parents are James Ovens and Margaret Gray.
If you would like to get in touch just send me a personal message and I can share my email address and link to my Ancestry family tree.
Cheers
Julie
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Julie - while not questioning the actual research I'm still inclined to suspend judgement over what exactly WAS the original name and where ultimately it originated, let alone where the WHITLOCK came into the picture and why the three boys adopted it eventually. I wonder if there may be some credence to my mother's "family myth" of a Dutch ancestor - although its entirely possible that this was based on her being told that Robert changed his name from Vanhackovens! There was also a mythical "the Whitlocks came from Hampshire" which I'd forgotten about!
Do you have anything positve to connect Thomas Van-Hack Ovens to Thomas Vanhackovens apart from the obvious? I hate coincidences - and I absolutely dont believe something just because its in writing so when there's an oddity I look for as much confirming evidence as pssible - have you found anything more to tie this down?
DNA is still likely to be our best bet to sort things out of course - and since I'm a generation behind most everone looking at this and therefore closer to the people we are interested in, I need to do more on my own stuff - including getting an Ancestry test done!
Its all fascinating, even if it does take me away from my primary research - even though nobody on my side will be interested since I've no offsrping, at least someone will benefit from the knowledge! :-)
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As this is related to my family,It's hard to understand why Thomas my 2x grandfather and his brothers Walter and Robert,changed their surnames to whitlock,as their father is Henry Whitlock,with all three working in Covent Garden market,also I have found a note saying that Thomas's mother was Mary ann whillock.and they are living in 52great wild street in 1891.
Henry 42
Mary ann 37
Thomas 16
Walter 14
Robert 12. As I am not on any genioligy sites my research is limited.thanks
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Regarding the origins of the name VANHACKOVENS: To me it looks like a combination of two names.
Vanhack & Ovens.
There are quite a few births, marriages and deaths with the surname VANHACK in London as far back as the 1600s. Also spelling variations VANHECKE and Van HICK. The original (Dutch) name may have been VAN EYK.
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Thomas Vanhack OVENS (the son of James Ovens) married Mary Ann LYNHAM in Newport, on the Isle of Wight, Hampshire on 9 Nov 1863.
As far as we know Thomas was a sailor, and this would explain the marriage in Newport
Possibly 2 children born to this couple -
Frances Ann OVENS born 1865 Isle of Wight; died 1868 in Bristol age 2 ½
Alfred Ovens 1868 in Clifton (Bristol area).
It might be worth having a look at this marriage record. This might be the mythical Hampshire link that Ainsley-ons mentioned in reply #21
Henry Whitlock (who does not seem to know where he was born) may have been an illegitimate son of Thomas, before he married in 1863.
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The surname Vanhack is most common in France,if Ovens is the real family name,maybe Vanhack was a female line maiden name,as it was a common practice to keep family names going.
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Hi all looking at Mary ann lynham date of birth 1838 she would have only been a child when William and Thomas were born in 1844and1849.
If so how would their realmother be found.Also How can the whitlocks and the Vanhackovens be on to different census records at the same time circa 1881? Maybe I am misreading the evidence presented,the Whitlock family web site shows them as being whitlocks seems strange,maybe the person who added them knew.thanks
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I doubt Mary Ann Lynham is the mother of William and Thomas. I’m still searching Baptism records. I have a possibility for William but I need to look further into it.
I’m not sure what you mean by the census records. The Vanhackovens are the right family and there were other Whitlock family’s with similar names. I don’t have all my research to hand at the moment as I’m away on holiday but will follow up on my return home.
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I bow to you research knowledge and efforts J you know what it's like when you are reading the info and can't wait for the next instalment.R
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In Johnstones London commercial guide 1818, living ar number 23 Birchin lane cornhill London,is James Orvens dealer in turtle,yet another spelling variation.
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In regards to Thomas son of (Henry whitlock) born 1873 his death on here is given 1926 or 1929.if you look at his daughter Esther Mary whitlocks marriage to John foreman in 1921.she put her father Thomas as dead.???