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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: RobbieCE on Wednesday 02 November 22 19:39 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone,
I have become aware from a family member and an old newspaper clipping I found in some old family photos that my great-grandfather served in the first world war. The newspaper clipping states he served with the South Wales Borderers and survived the battle of the Somme.
I have been searching online for any records but sadly can't find any. I'm aware most service records were lost during the second world war but is it unusual that I can't even locate a medal index card for him?
His name is Wilfred Baker, born 7 September 1894 from Cwmbran - South Wales.
Thanks
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Do you have his service number?
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https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D1132878
Medal card of Baker, Wilfred
Corps Regiment No Rank
Border Regiment 202409 Private
Might be worth paying a small fee to download this record from Nat Archives Uk although I suspect his medals would be those awarded to all soldiers.
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The MRI for that Service number only shows he was awarded the British Medal - not the Victory Medal as well & no Theatre of War is shown. Given the info in the opening post I wonder if this was the same Wilfred Baker.
https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/border-regiment
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https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/units/322/south-wales-borderers
There were a number of battalions in the SW Borderers & looking at the first 8 I can't see anything obvious about the Somme but you may want to read each one as it could help identify which battalion served in the Battle of the Somme
EDIT
A quick Google suggests the 38th
https://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyunits/britishinfantry/swb.htm
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202409 can also be discounted as he was from Manchester area and died at sea 10 1 1917.
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2894235/wilfred-baker/
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Thanks everyone for the inputs. I think one of my best chances now is to possibly book an appointment at my local archives and check the AVL's to see if I can possibly get any hits that way. It has to be worth a go...
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Your grandfather had no other christian names. Looking through the MRI for Wilfred Baker entries and checking if any showed a Theatre of War entry only turns up 2 entries.
Royal Engineers - driver - 2 possible service numbers - 96 & 486227
Theatre of War entered 19.1.1915 - no country shown
RAMC - private - service number 1788 - ToW - 27.2.1915 no country shown but shows (1)
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Thanks everyone for the inputs. I think one of my best chances now is to possibly book an appointment at my local archives and check the AVL's to see if I can possibly get any hits that way. It has to be worth a go...
I can assist with this. What address[es] do you have? Give the parish if you know it.
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1788 Baker has Pension Ledger/Card and has an address of 42 Wroxeter Old Rd, Derby.
96/486227 Baker. These numbers denote a Territorial Force man and that he was No 1 North Midland Field Coy. The low number indicates he was pre-war man, possibly 1908/1909.
486001 488000 1 N Midland Field Coy
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Thanks everyone for the inputs. I think one of my best chances now is to possibly book an appointment at my local archives and check the AVL's to see if I can possibly get any hits that way. It has to be worth a go...
I can assist with this. What address[es] do you have? Give the parish if you know it.
Hi Gwil,
The known address he lived at in 1911 (from the census) would be 8 Brookland Terrace, Cwmbran, Monmouthshire.
It's possible they were then living at 13 Brookland Terrace in 1913 as his brother is living there but not sure if the whole family moved.
by 1922 he was living in 3 woodside terrace according to his marriage certificate.
The 2 service records you have mentioned again don't match I don't think. The first one the address doesn't match. He was a miner before the war from what I know so the second one's service number stating that person was pre-war also doesn't match.
Im really stuck here on this one....
what are your thoughts?
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He and the family are at 13 Brookland Terrace in the 1921 census.
I have looked in the AVL. Wilfred is not at the address. Arthur Baker is though and he is shown as O.S H.M.S Dartmouth.
The AVL I have is Spring 1919 and there are obvious gaps in the numbering, which they have retained from the previous issues. Arthur is entry number 2356. Before him is 2352 and after him is 2360 thus leaving about six entries dropped off from previous issue. It might be worth making contact with the local records office to see if theirs is the 1918 one.
Cwmbran is in Pontypool Division. I have been through all of that Division and not seen him.
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Could you either post the article here or post a transcription of what it says
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He and the family are at 13 Brookland Terrace in the 1921 census.
I have looked in the AVL. Wilfred is not at the address. Arthur Baker is though and he is shown as O.S H.M.S Dartmouth.
The AVL I have is Spring 1919 and there are obvious gaps in the numbering, which they have retained from the previous issues. Arthur is entry number 2356. Before him is 2352 and after him is 2360 thus leaving about six entries dropped off from previous issue. It might be worth making contact with the local records office to see if theirs is the 1918 one.
Cwmbran is in Pontypool Division. I have been through all of that Division and not seen him.
Thank you so much for looking this up for me Gwil, It's a shame there is no record there for him. Do you think there is no record due to one never being filled out for him? Is it possible that he was at another address do you think? I'm starting to wonder how often something like this happens where there appears to be no record of someone who served. Have you ever come across a similar situation? I've emailed the archives already so hopefully they can let me know if they have any copies of the 1918 version of the AVL.
Thanks again for your help, at the very least I have some more info on his brother.
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Could you either post the article here or post a transcription of what it says
Hi Carole, if you mean the newspaper article then sure here it is.
Thanks.
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The article must have been 1972 as he married in 1922. Could the reporter have got the "wrong end of the stick"?
There is no medal card for him which is very strange if he served in France.
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The article must have been 1972 as he married in 1922. Could the reporter have got the "wrong end of the stick"?
There is no medal card for him which is very strange if he served in France.
I have questioned myself if the reporter has the facts straight, but part of me is thinking how could they get this so wrong? It's a big thing to get wrong too isn't it. I'm also thinking that the source for the paper is more than likely my great grandparents themselves surely as they would have obviously been alive and my great nan is quoted in the piece.
On the other hand though why is there no records?
On another forum it has been suggested that maybe it is possible that he joined the war with the south wales borderers but served under a different unit in France, meaning one of the medal index cards could be him but there is no one of linking it for sure. I suppose this is also a possibility?
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Hi everyone,
Just a little update. Today I visited the local archives and searched through the AVL for 1918. I found my great grandfather listed as PTE 49045 3rd SWB. I'm very happy to have found this, but even though I have his regimental number now, I still cannot find any index cards for him online. The mystery continues.
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Hi Robbie,3rd SWB was a reserve battalion as was the case with most regiment's, it never served abroad
but supplied replacements for those that did he could have possibly been with them throughout the war
which could be a reason for the lack of a card,His army number may give a clue to his enlistment dates
some folk's over on the Great war forum seem to have access to them and have helped me in the past.
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Hi Robbie,3rd SWB was a reserve battalion as was the case with most regiment's, it never served abroad
but supplied replacements for those that did he could have possibly been with them throughout the war
which could be a reason for the lack of a card,His army number may give a clue to his enlistment dates
some folk's over on the Great war forum seem to have access to them and have helped me in the past.
Thanks Steve, I am also currently on the great war forum and some people have been very helpful on there. From what I have been told the 2 service numbers next to my great grandfathers (49044 & 49046) both got transferred to different regiments. Impossible to say for sure if thats the case with my great granfather but it's a possiblility. Thank you for the battalion info.