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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: Nennefer on Monday 31 October 22 12:37 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone advise on how i might progress with my 3 times G grandfather.
I have just discovered he may have been born at St.Andrews, Fife, but i'm not convinced. The only evidence i have is his merchant seaman's ticket, dated 1845 which gives the following details:
John Pringle born December 1801 St. Andrews, Fife. He was a carpenter and first went to sea in 1822.
when not working he live in Wapping and later Tower Hamlets, London where he had a wife and children.
I have researched the London area and have all i can from there. I haven't been able to find anything on his birth or any family he may have had in Fife. I would love to strengthen the connection with Scotland if the details are true. Any suggestions on where i might try from here.
I must add research in Scotland is totally new to me and i am struggling with this a little.
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According to the OPRs (Old Parish Registers) there were no John Pringles baptised in Fife between 1799 and 1803 (although there was a James and an Alexander in St Andrews).
There are John Pringles baptised elsewhere in Scotland, but without his parents' names there's no real way of confirming (or otherwise).
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Thank you for checking that for me Ostler.
I suspected the search was futile but thought i would ask, not coming from the area i wasn't sure if i was missing something that might progress me further. I shall just have to be content with what i have.
for over 30 years it has been my wish to trace my Pringle name back to its origins up north. I have at least achieved that.
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There is an 1804 baptism for a John Pringle at St Andrews:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XBJ1-4XX
And there is this seaman's ticket record from 1838:
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I guess this is the family you refer to?
John Pringle married Ann Brook 1832 Wapping
Children.
James 1833, not on census returns 1841/51
Mary Ann 1839, George 1842
Elizabeth 1845 died 1845, Frederick 1847
From the census returns it looks like Ann is a widow by 1851, although the census is not too clear. John is not with Ann & Mary on the 1841 census, maybe at sea?
Acxcording to a tree on Ancestry James died 1841 but no GRO record and they state this is John below?
PRINGLE John St Geo Southk 4 818
There were two baptisms around that time in Fife, plus one has been posted already.
PRINGLE JAMES ALEXANDER PRINGLE LEAH MYLES 28/04/1800 St Andrews and St Leonards
PRINGLE JAMES DAVID PRINGLE 18/12/1803 Collessie
Colin
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There is an 1804 baptism for a John Pringle at St Andrews:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XBJ1-4XX
And there is this seaman's ticket record from 1838:
Oh wow ShaunJ, what a find. That could very well be my John Pringle the only date of birth i have for him is on the ticket i posted above, the day looks wrong but the month is correct.
The parents names on the christening are James and Elizabeth. I know its not evidence but Johns Eldest child was named James and he also had a daughter Elizabeth that died in infancy.
i will go hunt out that seaman's ticket too as i've not seen that one. I thought i had searched them all. Is it on FindMyPast?
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I guess this is the family you refer to?
John Pringle married Ann Brook 1832 Wapping
Children.
James 1833, not on census returns 1841/51
Mary Ann 1839, George 1842
Elizabeth 1845 died 1845, Frederick 1847
From the census returns it looks like Ann is a widow by 1851, although the census is not too clear. John is not with Ann & Mary on the 1841 census, maybe at sea?
Acxcording to a tree on Ancestry James died 1841 but no GRO record and they state this is John below?
PRINGLE John St Geo Southk 4 818
There were two baptisms around that time in Fife, plus one has been posted already.
PRINGLE JAMES ALEXANDER PRINGLE LEAH MYLES 28/04/1800 St Andrews and St Leonards
PRINGLE JAMES DAVID PRINGLE 18/12/1803 Collessie
Colin
Yes Colin thats the family, these are the children i have for them;
Children:
James Pringle. Baptised 21 Sep 1833, Wapping home address 5 Newmarket Street Wapping.
John George Pringle. Baptised 5 July 1835, Wapping home address 5 Newmarket Street Wapping.
Mary Ann Pringle. Baptised 7 July 1839, Marmaduke Street.
George John Pringle. Baptised 28 Oct 1842, Cannon Street.
Elizabeth Pringle. Baptised 9 Nov 1845, Marmaduke Street.
Frederick Pringle. Baptised 1 Dec 1847, 15 Cannon Street Road.
You are correct Ann was a widow by 1851 as John died on 5 Dec 1847 whilst on a trip attached to the above merchant seaman's ticket in my original post. I have not been able to decipher the place name of his death on the document, so can not discover where he may have been buried.
sorry Im not good at cropping the image but if you can download it i assume you can view the righthand column giving details of place and date he died.
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Is it on FindMyPast?
Yes it is. They have its date as 1835.
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I am beyond excited, Thank you all.
ShawnJ, i found the ticket and based on the information on it i am convinced this is my John. Under the ticket number is the code 64 my research tells me this represents the port of London and is the port John worked out of. It states his age at the time was 34 in 1838, giving a year of birth of 1804
This matches the information given on the christening record for St. Andrews.
Well done, i'm so so pleased
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Hello again, Nennefer,
ShaunJ has just given you the 1835 record I referred to earlier and there-you-go!!! another piece of information. He was aboard the vessel BALTIC MERCHANT which was, quite probably, registered at London.
With a vessel name and a date, I suggest that you try the old newspapers now.
Cheers,
Westoe
EDIT:
This could be the one:
http://www.teesbuiltships.co.uk/view.php?a1PageSize=5&year_built=&builder=&a1Order=Sorter_ship_list_bld_ref&a1Dir=DESC&a1Page=5&ref=171416&vessel=BALTIC+MERCHANT (http://www.teesbuiltships.co.uk/view.php?a1PageSize=5&year_built=&builder=&a1Order=Sorter_ship_list_bld_ref&a1Dir=DESC&a1Page=5&ref=171416&vessel=BALTIC+MERCHANT)
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Westoe
You folks have been awesome and i'm feeling a tad overwhelmed. 30+ years i have been waiting and trying to discover the origins and fate of John.
I think i must be being dence though. What would i gain from looking for the Baltic Merchant in the newspapers?
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Well ..... erm ... family history is about more than names and dates. It's also about life experiences; where he travelled, what his work experience was etc.etc.
Anyway, perhaps the newspaper suggestion is premature, because there were, no doubt, multiple vessels of that name in this period. I've got a bit more on the specific one to which I posted a link in the last post.
That BALTIC MERCHANT was registered in London in 1811 and probably a few years beyond that, but from 1819 until her loss in 1842, she was registered on the River Tyne as per the reference book "Dictionary of Tyne Sailing Ships" by Richard Keys. In 1835 she was in the timber trade, mostly to Canada.
Cheers,
Westoe
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That is so interesting. I will do some more research on it. Such a shame they didn't include the name of the ship on which he died. Still in time more info may come to light. Thank you.
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Hi Nennefer, great finds on John Pringle from others on this forum.
I am going to add some more information for you to consider -
John Pringle was born in 1804 in St Andrews to James Pringle and Elizabeth Carstairs that fact we have established.
His parents James and Elizabeth were married on 24/5/1799 in St Andrews.
Elizabeth died in 1860 aged 89 in St Andrews. A widow.
There is a birth for Elizabeth Carstairs on 3/8/1771 with parents William Carstairs and Isabella Brown same as on her death certificate.
These are from scotlandspeople and are original entries in the Old Parish Registers.
Not having any luck so far with finding a birth or death record for James Pringle but I will continue searching and see if anything relevant can be found.
Dorrie
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Hello Dorrie,
Thank you so much, I can't say how nice it is to have some help with this. Of all my families the Pringles have been my nemesis over the years so it feels good to make some progress at last.
I have managed to find the marriage of James to Elizabeth Carstairs, but all the rest is new to me.
I am new to using FindMyPast so a little slow on getting my head around it. Does scotlandspeople require a subscription? I will take a look.
Thank you for the information on the birth and death details for Elizabeth. I will take a look at those.
I have found with this family the men tend to be very elusive and hard to trace.
Jenny
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Hello Jenny. Sites such as Find My Past and others are very good but the Scottish Records are transcriptions not the original hand written entries. Sometimes you get that little bit extra information on the originals.These are only found on scotlandspeople. It is not a subscription site but you register and then buy batches of credits. It costs £7.50 for 30 credits and £10 for 40 credits. For each record you look at you use 6 credits. Not expensive really. You can download the record. Hope I have explained this properly.
On John's Birth Entry in 1804 his father James is a hairdresser and on Elizabeth's Death Certificate she is the widow of a barber. Hence the connection I made.
I have sent you a personal message regarding the information I found and if you reply to me through the PM's we can take it from there.
Best wishes,
Dorrie
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Scotland's People is a pay-per-view site, not a subscription site.
You may wish to check out the following St Andrews records, all available to view on Scotland's People at a modest cost.
Death of James Pringle (Hairdresser) on 26 January 1832
Birth of James Pringle, son of John Pringle (Barber & Perriwig Maker) and Elizabeth Wright on 14 March 1764
Marriage of John Pringle and Elzabeth Wright in September 1760
Margow
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I hope you all know what a wonderful bunch you are.
I have purchased some credits on ScotlandsPeople and am downloading copies as fast as i can. I am astounded at the detail included on the Scotish records, It's just wonderful. :D
Im so excited i can't tell you.
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I can only apologise for not being any help and originally dashing your hopes. That was not my intention.
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Scotland's People is a pay-per-view site, not a subscription site.
You may wish to check out the following St Andrews records, all available to view on Scotland's People at a modest cost.
Death of James Pringle (Hairdresser) on 26 January 1832
Birth of James Pringle, son of John Pringle (Barber & Perriwig Maker) and Elizabeth Wright on 14 March 1764
Marriage of John Pringle and Elzabeth Wright in September 1760
Margow
Margow
Thank you so much for those, would you believe it i trained as a hairdresser at the age of 16 and made wigs at college in the traditional manner. I was the best in class, maybe now i know why ;D
Jenny
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I can only apologise for not being any help and originally dashing your hopes. That was not my intention.
Oh no don't worry, i was of the same mind as you. I didn't expect for one moment to find out all these wonderful details. I had no idea the Scottish records would be so detailed and complete.
i have been on the hunt for this family for 34 years and am in total disbelief.
The moral of this tale is never give up hope. :D
Jenny
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You are correct Ann was a widow by 1851 as John died on 5 Dec 1847 whilst on a trip attached to the above merchant seaman's ticket in my original post. I have not been able to decipher the place name of his death on the document, so can not discover where he may have been buried.
Could it possibly be Berbice? It's a region in Guyana, formerly British Guiana, on the northern coast of South America.
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Thank you Forfarian
It certainly could be. There are the suggestions i've had so far:
Burtree (near Darlington)
Burtree, Wallonia, Belgium.
Kirkee
Berbice, British Guiana.
Buckie, Scotland.
Berbice seems to be the most popular choice so far, although, i must confess i had hoped it would be Buckie, at least there would have been a chance of tracing his burial or maybe a record of it if it had been on home ground.
If he died in foreign parts i fear there is no hope to be had of finding him.
I cannot even trace an official record that he died, where would i even begin to look?
They must have notified Ann, possibly paid her his wages and returned his effects, if any. I would have thought a record would be with the shipping company but without a ships name or a ships log somewhere. I've no idea really.
jenny