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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: unilove18 on Friday 28 October 22 09:50 BST (UK)
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Hey everyone, Hopefully someone could help me here. I have recently got a DNA match on ancestry with this person being labelled as a 2nd cousin. So to me that means, they would be a grandchild of one of my Grandmothers siblings. With us sharing the same great grandparents. Now, according to this DNA match her Grandmother has the same name as mine, date of birth the same, only with a different year!! And then her great grandfather listed as the same name as mine! (Proof of name being in her marriage cert)....NOT PROOF THEY ARE THE SAME PEOPLE.
I have gone 2 generations back and although there is ones with the same names, the dates just dont allow for this matches grandmother to be born with the date they have. Now i obviously now her grandmother isnt mine, as the DNA match wouldnt be a 2nd cousin. But i just cant seem to find the link here.
If any one would be willing to help me i can forward all the information i have. This DNA match's grandmother has deceased! So no issue there.
Thank you
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2nd cousin level is not necessarily 2nd cousin could be half first cousin so sharing 1 grandparent rather than 2 great grandparents
If your match has taken the date from one source and you have the date from another it could still be the same person .
Which records do you both have . ?
Have you looked at the shared matches you have with them .?
If this hypothesis is correct they will all be connected to this grandmother but not to her husband and will not connect to your bio grandfather
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DNA relationships are merely estimates but cannot really be exact unless very closely related. Use DNA Painter to get a better idea of other possibilities-
https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4
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Thanks for both replying.
Yes that's why i went back a few generations to follow her names that she has. But her names are my names, and my direct links. So for example there isn't 2 kids in each generation with the same name. So i am baffled!
There is actually no records connecting us just the names. But the date of birth is throwing me slightly of our grandmothers, all thats different is the year. However i cannot find a birth record at groni for her grandmother.
So my grandmother was Sarah McDowell born 28th sept 1899
Her grandmother was Sarah McDowell born 28th sept 1909 ( according to her marriage) Cannot find this birth.
Both their fathers are William McDowell
So with the time frame of 1909, and the name sarah, and fathers name William. I can also my direct links.
So if the dna match was off a little would it be possible that her grandmother is infact my grandmother??
Sorry for being so confusing. Im confused myself lol
Thanks
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All her shared matches i can account for and have been in touch with.
I Share 214cm with her
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If the only difference is in the year and all other details are the same, it sounds like she is the same woman. One of you could easily have the wrong year.
Do you have your grandmother’s birth certificate?
Also keep in mind that there are many inaccuracies in many trees, so if you are certain your research is correct and the other person has some information that doesn’t tally with yours, then it is quite possible they are wrong.
I’ve read of many instances where someone’s ancestor celebrated their birthday on the wrong date, or claimed to be a year older or younger than they were - nothing untoward about it, but mistakes can happen.
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Yes i have my grandmothers birth certificate. However im not saying my tree is 100% i could have missed a child along the way. She can only go up to her great grandfather where as i have researched right back to my 3 x great grandfather. But i assume thats cause she cant find her grandmothers birth. Only marriage. So because i have the extended tree i was trying to place her but its not possible. Only thing i can think of is, that i have maybe missed a child that my 3 x great grandfather has had? I was pretty sure i had them all. But thats the only place possible where i branch could start, for her line to begin.
I know ancestry dna is not 100% but i think if this match was my half 1st cousin the dna would be closer??
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Exactly how many centimorgans do you and this match share?
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i share 214cm with this match
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i share 214cm with this match
In that case there are quite a few other possibilities to consider-
https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4
49% Half GG-Aunt / Uncle 2C Half 1C1R 1C2R Half GG-Niece / Nephew
40% Half 2C 2C1R Half 1C2R 1C3R
6% Great-Great-Aunt / Uncle Half Great-Aunt / Uncle Half 1C 1C1R Half Great-Niece / Nephew Great-Great-Niece / Nephew
5% Half 1C3R † Half 2C1R † 3C 2C2R
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Do you have an idea of age range compared to you could she be a generation or two older or younger than you .
You have to trace down as well as up .maybe she has traced parentage from an adoption that you don't know about of a cousin or aunt / uncles child .
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Do you have an idea of age range compared to you could she be a generation or two older or younger than you .
Age range isn't really any indication of generation.
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It depends how many generations separate you . But usually if the mutual matches are over 80 and under 20 its unlikely to be same generation especially if you have mutual matches which you can link to a particular generation
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Hey brigid yes shes in her early 80s so of the age of my father. She herself was adopted she is trying to trace it back. Our other shared matches are my 1st cousins 1x removed or 2nd cousins. There isnt alot of them. Im in my 50s
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can you ask your cousins + their children how high their cm match is to her .
that might help
as she was adopted more likely to be a half relationship than a full one
how many siblings and cousins did your father have and what was their birth year range .
your match could be a generation removed down from your father if he had older cousins or same generation as you if he had younger cousins .
have any other generations in your or her line tested ..it does help . for example my nephew has matches that i dont have even tho im a generation closer to them .
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Ive literally just sent my top match which is a 1st cousin 1xremoved a message to ask what percentage she shares.....sorry that was a bit confusing, i meant she was adopted and is now tracing her birth family. Which is my family. Thing is my father was also adopted, and ive had to do the same thin, ive had to follow the paper trail. Which i think would lead us both to only being half anyway.
So im unaware if my father has had any siblings. This is why its so confusing. And how im so sure on my line. If her Grandmother had of had a different name id have said id missed an uncle or aunt of my father. But with the same names 2 generations back from that its hard to see where she fits in.
Do you have ancestry yourself Brigid? I could add you as a guest to my tree it might be easier to explain and see
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Yes I'm on Ancestry ..
manage several people's DNA results or trees
Send a private message
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Sent thank you so much xx
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Re reply 3 where did you get the proof of birth year from ?
Death record could be mistake by informant 1940 wedding she could have lied about her age as her husband was only* 24 b1914
She stated 30 so born ABT 1910 but if she was actually b 1899 she might not have wanted the registrar to notice .
Also she could have lied about having a father
Could she actually be daughter of a single woman step father's first name could have been used or sometimes people recorded grandfather's name .
Have you found the couple in 1911 ? Or 1939 to see what ages are given then .was your father and your matches parent born in Ballymartin too ?
Another thing worth checking is your ethnicity and compare with your cousins and your matches . The mystery birth father may have more Scottish or English or something else .
Goodnight .I.ll take another look tomorrow
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I see the problem from ancestry trees
people are mixing up two sarah mcdonells
so you have a baptism but is it the right one , ? the fact that your match has a record with same birth date but different year could mean they have copied from a different document or tree
there are other topics about Sarah mcdowell i will read them first before looking for more facts
im not very good at Irish research but have a good understanding of dna results
so Sadie 1 is daughter of mary ann wife of stonemason
no sign of husband in 1901 or 1911
shes roman catholic and cant read
with mary ellen + sarah in 1901
1911 the 2 girls in industrial school (#correction orphanage there is another Mcdowell girl there too margaret age 13 ..only seen transcript might not be same family )
1911 mother mary ann had 6 children living with her are james william goerge and annie
sarah sadie 2
is daughter of presbytarian #farmer william who is with the family and his mother in 1911 wife listed as mary 42
mary jane 14
ellen 13
sarah 11 ( one tree has married name TRAINOR ) so worth checking if your dna matches anyone with that surname
jemima 10
john 6
william robert 2
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wow there are a whole lot of Sarah Mcdowells
your dna matches from other adoptees could easily have followed wrong ones
regarding dna matches : start with a few name searches in your shared matches to the people you believe are sarah + williams parents . look for anyone whose connections are further back
ignore the ones who may have copied names from trees but look for descendants of siblings
thats better proof of a connection .
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Some of this might be easier to sort out than you think. Forget about the DNA bit for a minute and concentrate on documentation.
Starting with some questions (you may not know all the answers but don't worry and feel free to not post details you'd rather not)
What religion was your Sarah McDowell?
Do you have any documentation for your father to give his mother's residence or other details about her?
The Sarah McDowell who is your other match's grandmother-
What is her father's occupation from the 1952 marriage?
Do you know what religion she was?
I have lots more details on various possibilities but best to take things step by step.
A few things I will correct to census details brigidmac posted earlier-
"so Sadie 1 is daughter of mary ann wife of stonemason"
Mary Ann is wife of stonecutter. Daughter Sarah McDowell's birth registration also lists this as her father's occupation an her birthdate was 23 Sept.1899- birthplace Ballyhanwood matches the location of family in 1911.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1899/02022/1776081.pdf
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Ballymaglaff/Ballyhanwood/262539/ (Presbyterian)
Ballyhanwood is between Belfast & Comber-
https://www.townlands.ie/down/castlereagh-lower/comber-castlereagh-lower-portion/ballymaglaff/ballyhanwood/
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So i know my grandmother is correct, because on my fathers baptism she lists her name and gives her mothers maiden name, age and Ballyhanwood, ballymartin, as my grandmother was unmarried. I assume this had to be given. My fathers baptism took place in belfast. In a roman catholic church. So according to census forms and my fathers baptism i believe she was roman catholic. The trail for my grandmother stops there! She was living as a boarder in belfast.
Before that Yes my grandmother and her sister mary ellen where in an orphange in 1911. Yet her
mother was at home with other children. My great grandfather william doesnt seem to be about much, but enough to have the children. Possibly worked away alot considering he was a stonemason and the area they lived in, the mourne mountain area with many of the handbuilt walls, I think tied in well. The few close DNA matches i have all back this up that i have the correct people in my tree.
A builder and contractor William was listed as on the other sarah mcdowells marriage cert but no religion was given.
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Oh boy have you gone off on the wrong track! Still searching and putting together details before I post more information which will hopefully sort out things.
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Oh god im afraid to ask!!!! Look forward to this next message
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sorry I made my notes too fast yes Stone cutter
so surely if sarahs mother was not married ..mothers Maiden name would have been McDowell
or Sarah would have been baptised under a different maiden name before the mother married later
becoming known as sarah Mcdowell
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A few bits to clarify-
So i know my grandmother is correct, because on my fathers baptism she lists her name and gives her mothers maiden name, age and Ballyhanwood, ballymartin, as my grandmother was unmarried.
Sarah's mother's maiden name?
Ballyhanwood and Ballymartin are 2 entirely different places (more on both later)
Before that Yes my grandmother and her sister mary ellen where in an orphange in 1911. Yet her mother was at home with other children.
Do you know that your grandmother Sarah McDowell had a sister Mary Ellen or is this merely based on the census records?
Note: it was orphanage run by Sisters of Mercy in Downpatrick not an industrial school.
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from a tree
Her sister Mary Ellen also had a child 1917 who was adopted and one in 1918 no information
it would definitely help to look at baptisms of all these children ive not seen irish baptisms it s very useful if they list grandmothers maiden name .
i.ll wait for agha to sort out paper work , your Davy matches have definitely mixed up families and have 10 siblings for Sarah
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Sorry rechecked notes. My fathers Baptism Actually states Moneydarraghmore for place of birth for sarah.
I was going off the census records at the beginning until i got a dna match for mary ellens grandson. my 2nd cousin. So that confirmed that. And i have another DNA match for a grandadughter of mary ellens other child. Both these 2 children where adopted. Both them sisters in belfast at the time. My father also adopted. Yes i was aware it was an orphanage
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Sorry rechecked notes. My fathers Baptism Actually states Moneydarraghmore for place of birth for sarah.
I was going off the census records at the beginning until i got a dna match for mary ellens grandson. my 2nd cousin. So that confirmed that. And i have another DNA match for a grandadughter of mary ellens other child. Both these 2 children where adopted. Both them sisters in belfast at the time. My father also adopted. Yes i was aware it was an orphanage
It was brigidmas that said it was an industrial school.
Moneydaraghmore makes much more sense. I also asked about Sarah's mother's maiden name which you said is mentioned on your father's baptism. I've never seen one which would list that detail.
Her sister Mary Ellen also had a child 1917 who was adopted and one in 1918 no information
I found one, possibly 2 children, born in Belfast. However, neither lists mother as Mary Ellen McDowell, so I'm not sure if I am missing something here.
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Yes it was given in the notes section. Possibly because they knew that my dad was going for adoption as ive always been told it was through the church that this happened. I think i said the name philiips to him and he said yes that would be right from what i can see in the notes. So maybe was he telling me what i wanted to hear?? To make a puzzle fit?
Mary ellens 2 children, where doreen (25 aug 1918) and agnes anna Mcdowell (10 jun 1917), born belfast. I have a dna match for doreens son and a dna match for agnes, granddaughter
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Okay, most everything fitting together nicely.
Starting with your father's mother, Sarah McDowell-
Sarah McDowell (28 Sept.1899 Moneydaraghmore)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1899/02022/1775881.pdf (father- William McDowell, stonecutter; mother- Mary Ann Phillips)
So now her parents-
William McDowell (c1877/c1871-aft.1901), stonecutter, m.(4 Nov.1897) Mary Ann Phillips (c1880/c1877-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1897/10469/5812560.pdf (William McDowell, stonedresser, Moneydaramore. Bride, of Ballymartin,and groom age 20)
Ballymartin is near Kilkeel which is nowhere near Belfast/Comber-
https://www.townlands.ie/down/mourne/kilkeel/ballykeel/ballymartin/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Ballykeel/Ballymartin/1234504/ (R.C., wife of stonecutter)
Here’s William McDowell in 1901- lodging at Clonachullion outside Newcastle- (can’t find in 1911)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Bryansford/Clonachullion/1233510/
https://www.townlands.ie/down/iveagh-upper-lower-half/kilcoo/bryansford/clonachullion/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Ballykeel/Ballymartin/243801/
In 1911 the two older girls are ‘orphans’ in an Orphanage, not an Industrial School, run by the Sisters of Mercy-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Downpatrick/Inish_Street/237274/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002223111/
https://sistersofmercy.ie/2012/08/sisters-of-mercy-downpatrick/
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So this is what i have aghadowey, thank goodness im on the right track. Thought my whole tree was wrong for a minute lol.
I also have dna matches to Sarahs brother william, her sister annie (no birth found yet) and also another sister Evelyn (no birth found as yet)
Sarahs father williams birth is listed as WILLIE MADOLE
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Annie's birth is possibly what you weren't expecting as her mother is listed as Phillips not McDowell-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01596/1641453.pdf (illegitimate, mother Mary Ann Phillips, sewer)
However, a younger illegitimate child is under McDowell- called Patrick Collins and his middle name may or may not be connected to his father
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1918/01283/1531851.pdf (illegitimate, mother Mary Ann McDowell, a sewer)
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well done agha so glad that ties with uni s research
why is mary ann mcdowell listed as formerly a SEWER in the last 2 baptisms
is it surname or profession
the others on page have formerly as maiden names
by the way i noticed a babtism of james henry mcdowell at top of page son of henry Mcdowell with Mary Margaret formerly Hanna as mother .that was 1 of the families previously researched wasnt it?
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oh wow no i wasnt expecting that, I assumed she was williams child!! Thanks for that one!!
Yes i have Patrick in the tree already, assumed myself collins was a nod to the father. What a life this family have led. So we def have the right people agahadowey. But how do we figure out this 2nd sarah mcdowell and where my own grandmother went after having my dad. Any suggestions?
Im assuming its her occupation brigid xx
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When an illegitimate child is registered (because father only named if he also attended registration) then it was common for mother's occupation to be listed. Mary Ann was listed as Phillips or McDowell depending on the information she provided to the registrar. Sewer was her occupation- in other words, she likely took in sewing at home to try and support her family. In any case, she would have struggled to look after all her children.
Reading what I've found so far, William & Mary married in Nov.1897 and daughter Mary Ellen born 2 months later. Daughter Sarah born 1899. In 1901 census William is away from home working. Three sons next born (registered with William McDowell as father). Then Mary Ann has illegitimate daughter Annie (1909). By 1911 it looks like she was unable to care for the whole family and eldest daughters are in orphanage*. Son Patrick born 1918.
*an orphan can be a child who has one or two dead parents. I have not been able to find a death for William McDowell (from 1901-1921) but perhaps the Sisters of Mercy also took in children whose parents were not able to care for them.
There's lots more to come but people in this house do persist in wanting meals ;)
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Apologies also thinking Mary Philips didn't have so many children
As Patrick COLLINS is correct too
From other thread he was born 12 Balmoral street head of household was Eliza McFetridge who was still head in 1932
You.ll be able to pass this information onto the other adoptee descendants too
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yes so after annie, there was an edward, margaret, patrick evelyn and an edna. The last 2 i cant find births for. They are all without a Father registered. So looks like the 3 boys where her last 'mcdowell' children. Im unable to find williams death either agahadowey. But will keep trying.
Ill keep an eye on your posts to come for more information, cant have everyone starving over me and my tree lol. Thanks everyone x
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Out of curiosity does your 2nd cousin show at full 2nd cousin level or more like half 2nd cousin
Re your original question you could be half Cousins at that level but more likely to be half cousins 1 removed
My half C 1R is 191cm to me
+ 192cm to my cousin
336cm to my mother as half cousins
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As Patrick COLLINS is correct too
From other thread he was born 12 Balmoral street head of household was Eliza McFetridge who was still head in 1932
No. Patrick Collins McDowell was born at Ballymartin as per his birth registration-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1918/01283/1531851.pdf
yes so after annie, there was an edward, margaret, patrick evelyn and an edna. The last 2 i cant find births for.
Patrick was born in June 1918. Irish Genealogy only has N.I. vital records up to 1921 & GRONI's online database only shows births less than 100 years old. I did a search on GRONI and in Kilkeel district- no matches after Patrick's birth.
So, a bit more-
Mary Ellen McDowell (8 Jan.1898 Ballymartin-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02099/1799806.pdf (father- William McDowell, stone cutter)
1. ? Agnes Anna McDowell (10 June 1917 at 29 Malone Place, Belfast)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1917/01314/1543292.pdf (illegitimate, mother- Mary McDowell Kilkeel)
2. ? Doreen McDowell (25 Aug.1918 at 51 Lisburn Rd., Belfast)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1918/01274/1528374.pdf (mother Mary McDowell of 56 Townsend St., Belfast)
James McDowell (22 Aug.1901 Ballymartin-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1901/01936/1749125.pdf (father- stone cutter)
William McDowell (24 May 1904 Moneydaraghmore-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1904/01832/1715572.pdf (father- stone cutter)
George McDowell (4 June 1905 Moneydaraghmore-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1905/01788/1702129.pdf (father- stone cutter)
Annie Phillips/McDowell (24 July 1909 Ballymartin-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1909/01596/1641453.pdf (illegitimate, mother Mary Ann Phillips, sewer)
Edward McDowell (1912 Ballymartin)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1912/01476/1601256.pdf (note that Mary Ann also registered the birth following Edward’s)
Margaret McDowell (1914 Ballymartin)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01398/1574920.pdf
Patrick Collins McDowell (1 June 1918 Ballymartin)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1918/01283/1531851.pdf (illegitimate, mother Mary Ann McDowell, a sewer)
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Now for Mary Ann (Phillips) McDowell's sister- perhaps following the Phillips family will help with further DNA matches.
Catherine “Kate” Phillips (21 Feb.1871 Ballymartin) m.(1913) Francis Newell
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03314/2214760.pdf (parents George Phillips & Ellen Fitzpatrick)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Ballykeel/Ballymartin/1234508/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Ballykeel/Ballymartin/243806/
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1913/09896/5595609.pdf
1. Edward Phillips (1892 Ballymartin-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1892/02329/1871923.pdf
Possible marriage in 1913? (father listed as John Phillips)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1913/09888/5592251.pdf
a.? Mary Catherine Phillips (1914 Ballymartin)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1914/01415/1581542.pdf
b.? Ellen Phillips (1915 Ballymartin)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1916/01355/1558996.pdf
c.? Annie Elizabeth Phillips (1917 Ballymartin)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1918/01291/1534787.pdf
d.? Edward Phillips (1919 Ballymartin)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1919/01235/1513656.pdf
2. George Phillips (1900 Ballymartin-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/01989/1765595.pdf
3. Mary Ellen Phillips (1904 Ballymartin-aft.1911)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1904/01832/1715570.pdf
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Now onto the mystery of your DNA match with grandmother also called Sarah McDowell (I'll call her the other Sarah for now) but born possibly 1909. Since this involves another family you may no want to post details here but at least think about the questions and see if there are any further clues there.
Your Sarah was born 1899 and gave birth to a son in 1920 in Belfast. So, when and where did the 'other' Sarah McDowell give birth? Belfast? after 1920? Do they have an address for 'other' Sarah?
If Sarah stayed in Belfast then married in 1940- have you searched for her burial under that married name?
https://online.belfastcity.gov.uk/find-burial-records/
https://myhostedapp.com/fmi/webd/anbc_portal?homeurl=https://www.antrimandnewtownabbey.gov.uk.
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Thanks aghadowey for all them links. I think i had missed one or 2. I do actually have a dna match through the phillips so thats confirmed that side for me. Thank you. Sometimes i think ive looked that hard, im missing things. It really does help having another set of eyes.
So yes the mystery other Sarah McDowell.....I have been given 2 documents relating to her. One her marriage and one death certificate.
Her marriage took place 1st june 1940 in Portsmouth! To a man called Cyril Charles Davey. He is listed as being 21years and she is 30 years old. She is a hotel chambermaid and he is a cook for N.A.A.F.I (NO CLUE) Her address is 22 stone street, Portsmouth. His address is 40 durham street.
His father Thomas Henry Davey and deceased. Hers listed as William McDowell Deceased.
Now her death.....She died 22nd feb 1989 in Portsmouth. Her name is now listed as Sadie Sarah Davey (my grandmother sarah, also was meant to have been known by sadie) Maiden name again listed as McDowell. DATE OF BIRTH LISTED AS 28TH SEPT 1909. (i cannot find from groni this birth) Place of birth northern ireland. Her husbands details again listed as the informant. Both living in Asbury Nursing home.Died of a Cerebral Vascular accident.
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So ok NAAFI is the Navy. Makes sense given its portsmouth
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Sister Evelyn married in Portsmouth too .
Does anything so far rule out that they are actually thesame Sarah who lied about her birth year
Are your strongest level DNA matches to the DAVEY .
See reply 39 +
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Nothing so far that i can see rules it out, other than the dna should say 1st cousin match if it was 100%
My strongest dna match is to the daughter of evelyn. But apparently she only went to portsmouth for the day to marry as her husband was in the army. She returned home the next day
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It's looking more and more like 'your' Sarah & the 'other' Sarah were the same person and that the 'other' shaved 10 years off her age when marrying (not that uncommon especially when bride a bit older than husband).
Since any child of the 'other' Sarah would be half sibling of your father, if the above is correctly, then the DNA results will not be as close as if they had the same father.
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totally agree
.that was my initial theory especially as you match more than one Davey descendant
(I wasnt sure if cyrils age was 21 or 24 from marriage record sent in email)but her father was listed as deceased + builder constructor which fits.
one suggestion is to add Cyril Davey as spouse but dont give death date so he will remain private
thru lines should show up and you can see if the connections tally
you can build your tree to include William mcDowells parents and siblings to see other more distant matches
as there are other adoptees on this line it will help their descendants true lineage .
even Sarahs younger children named as McDowell might have different father as that would be her surname once widowed too .
good luck
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See i think its the same sarah to, however the dna is throwing me. I understand what you are saying about the less percentage due to being half. But my top dna match is my sarahs niece. Shes evelyns daughter. And her dna matches exactly what it should be. 1st cousin 1 x removed. Surely to god, my dads half Niece should be matching to me higher than a 2nd cousin even if only half. I just dont get it.
But because i descend from sarah and then william above that. There cant be 2 brother williams having 2 sister sarahs in the same tree. So im back believing they are the same person. Im going round and round
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Yes Evelyns daughter is your dads half cousin so your half cousin 1R
so you only share thru your great grandparents same as 2nd cousins do
ive just looked at various trees on ancestry ..some great photo ane what a family resemblance between all the Mc Dowell men
.
how strong + how distant are your davey matches
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Ive been searching for my grandmother for most of my adult life i actually cant take it in that this other sarah is more than likely her! This is crazy! So are we def thinking this is her, after seeing the percentages of them 2 matches?? Are we sure haha?
Yes the mcdowells that i have all seen a pic of, are all very very similar.
I do have simones 2 sons on there as a dna match as well ill send them
1st son.....Shared DNA: 59 cM across 3 segments
Unweighted shared DNA: 61 cM
Longest segment: 30 cM
How do we estimate DNA relationships?
Possible DNA relationships
This table shows the percentage of the time people sharing 59 cM have the following relationships:
Percent Relationship
37%
3rd cousin
2nd cousin 2x removed
Half 2nd cousin 1x removed
Half 1st cousin 3x removed
2nd son.....hared DNA: 51 cM across 5 segments
Unweighted shared DNA: 74 cM
Longest segment: 25 cM
How do we estimate DNA relationships?
Possible DNA relationships
This table shows the percentage of the time people sharing 51 cM have the following relationships:
Percent Relationship
37%
3rd cousin
2nd cousin 2x removed
Half 2nd cousin 1x removed
Half 1st cousin 3x removed
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Sorry I don't know how Simone + her son connect on paper as living people you.ll need to put it in private message or email .
You're getting closer to finding her !.
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Unilove18,
I’m not sure if this has already been suggested, but have you uploaded your raw data to any other sites eg My Heritage, FTDNA, Living DNA, Gedmatch ….. ?
I recommend that you pay any fees to unlock the additional features.
Other sites might throw up different matches. Not everyone tests with Ancestry.
Good luck with the search.
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Sarah is mother of # your father H P#
But Cyril is to young to be his birth father father so you have to unlink that relationship .
Any Davey's will be thru half siblings to your father.
You should be half cousins to Cyril's children
And half c1r to his grandchildren
Half C 2R to his great grandchildren
Does that fit with the people who you mentioned.? # I believe it does .
You look too young on profile pic to be a great aunt !