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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: jbrowntoros on Wednesday 26 October 22 03:57 BST (UK)
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Hi, first time poster here.
William shows up in England in 1891, in the household with my g-g-grandmother Sarah Jane (nee Isherwood, first/only legal marriage to a Crowther). Besides birth details on Census entries I know nothing of his pre-1891 life. Hence I'm here ;D
1891 - recorded as born 1853 Morecambe. This location seems an aberration. Occ given is Railway Plate Layer.
1901 - born abt 1852, Scotland). Occ: Road Labourer/Highway Watchman. A tick/checkmark is visible in the final (Disability) column of the Census (viewed the image).
1911- born abt 1852 Scotland. Occ: Watch Man, for the Urban District Council. Listed as "Cripple since 1892". Nationality box shows "510" in red ink when viewing the image; this was code for "Edinburgh residents" in this Census. He clearly is not an Edinburgh resident at this point, having been with my g-g-grandmother for at least 20 years in Golborne (Wigan and Leigh, Lancashire).
William dies in late April 1915, recorded age at death 63, so possibly born 1851 I guess.
Sarah Jane dies in 1935 with her death registered under surname CROWTHER (her gravestone also reads Crowther). William and Sarah had three kids together; their oldest son Henry began using Brown-Crowther for a surname at his first son's baptism in 1914.
I have only three Y-DNA (111 markers) matches on FTDNA - almost all of these have the surname Black, and those that have gotten out of the USA in their paternal line research all seem to go back to County Antrim. I have opened contact with all of my living Y-DNA 111 matches with varying degrees of success.
That's what I have! Please and thank you for any help!
jbrowntoros
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A William Brown, Scotland-born (c. 1853/4), cripple and s/o Robert Brown and Jane nee Bays exists on earlier England Censuses (1861 and 1871).
The Scotland, cripple and Robert (my g-grandfather's name) leads made it look so promising, but I've eliminated him based on a very thorough search of all William Brown deaths in the area from 1881 to 1891 (as Wm s/o Robert and Jane seems to disappear) that leads me to conclude that this William died in 1881 in Warrington aged 26.
That was a major let-down given it seemed such a good lead (albeit the 1911 Census image says my William was only crippled/disabled since 1892).
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As he was a plate layer in 1891 and crippled in 1892, I had a look for any reports of railway accidents in Lancashire in 1892. The only mention of a William Brown, plate layer, that I could see is a report in the Fleetwood Chronicle of 30-12-1892: "about seven o'clock on the morning of Christmas Day, a plate layer named William Brown, of Cleveleys, whilst proceeding up the line, made a horrifying discovery, ..." He found a body on the line.
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The birthplace in 1891 is very unclear on the image on Ancestry but somebody surname Brown has notified a correction saying the image on FindMyPast is better quality & clearly shows Morecambe??
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William shows up in England in 1891, in the household with my g-g-grandmother Sarah Jane (nee Isherwood, first/only legal marriage to a Crowther).
Does this mean you have their marriage certificate?
Colin
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Sarah Isherwood married Frederick Crowther Dec qtr 1871
However - her birthyear in 1891 is 1860 so that doesn't tie up. 2 of the children shown as Brown in 1891 are actually surname Crowther
Ellen Crowther 1884 mmn Isherwood - Haslingden
Albert Isherwood Crowther 1887
Son Henry b 1889 was registered as Brown
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Carole beat me to it but I will post anyway.
I guess from the birth registrations below, William & Sarah may not have been married?
1891 Billinge, Ashton, Lancashire
William Brown 38 Head Morecambe
Sarah J Brown 31 Wife Bury, Lancashire
Ellen J Brown 7 Daughter Haslingden Lancashire
Albert Brown 3 Son Ditto
Henry Brown 2 Son Salford, Lancashire
When Henry married in 1913, father not noted.
When Elizabeth Brown married 1917 father William Labourer, not noted as deceased.
Births Mar 1884
CROWTHER Ellen Haslingden 8e 140
Births Dec 1887
Crowther Albert Isherwood Haslingden 8e 132
BROWN, HENRY ISHERWOOD
GRO Reference: 1889 J Quarter in SALFORD Volume 08D Page 177
Colin
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Opening post refers to the Crowther marriage as being the first & only legal marriage
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The birthplace in 1891 is very unclear on the image on Ancestry but somebody surname Brown has notified a correction saying the image on FindMyPast is better quality & clearly shows Morecambe??
Yes that is a thread I started on Ancestry boards. Yes it does show that and all I can really surmise is there was an error by the Census taker or whoever gave that information to them - I'm inclined to trust the Scotland report which appears twice (both in more recent censuses).
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As he was a plate layer in 1891 and crippled in 1892, I had a look for any reports of railway accidents in Lancashire in 1892. The only mention of a William Brown, plate layer, that I could see is a report in the Fleetwood Chronicle of 30-12-1892: "about seven o'clock on the morning of Christmas Day, a plate layer named William Brown, of Cleveleys, whilst proceeding up the line, made a horrifying discovery, ..." He found a body on the line.
Yes I have come across this before too; Cleveleys is close to Fleetwood and a long way from Leigh and I'm guessing this William is not my William.
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William shows up in England in 1891, in the household with my g-g-grandmother Sarah Jane (nee Isherwood, first/only legal marriage to a Crowther).
Does this mean you have their marriage certificate?
Colin
Yes I do; the information on it is summarised here
John Crowther 23 year old Bachelor and Stone Quarryman, and son of Thomas Crowther (Coal Miner) married Sarah Jane Isherwood, a 22 year old Spinster and Cotton Rover, and daughter of John Isherwood (deceased Coal Miner) in on 20 June 1883 in Haslingden, Lancashire, England.
William and Sarah never legally married.
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Sarah Isherwood married Frederick Crowther Dec qtr 1871
However - her birthyear in 1891 is 1860 so that doesn't tie up. 2 of the children shown as Brown in 1891 are actually surname Crowther
Ellen Crowther 1884 mmn Isherwood - Haslingden
Albert Isherwood Crowther 1887
Son Henry b 1889 was registered as Brown
This is all correct except for the marriage in the top line. Her marriage to a John Crowther details are in the post above this one.
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Carole beat me to it but I will post anyway.
I guess from the birth registrations below, William & Sarah may not have been married?
1891 Billinge, Ashton, Lancashire
William Brown 38 Head Morecambe
Sarah J Brown 31 Wife Bury, Lancashire
Ellen J Brown 7 Daughter Haslingden Lancashire
Albert Brown 3 Son Ditto
Henry Brown 2 Son Salford, Lancashire
When Henry married in 1913, father not noted.
When Elizabeth Brown married 1917 father William Labourer, not noted as deceased.
Births Mar 1884
CROWTHER Ellen Haslingden 8e 140
Births Dec 1887
Crowther Albert Isherwood Haslingden 8e 132
BROWN, HENRY ISHERWOOD
GRO Reference: 1889 J Quarter in SALFORD Volume 08D Page 177
Colin
Yes this is the household and you are correct that William and Sarah never legally married.
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Apologies for such late replies. I'm new here and thought, based on experiences in other forums, that I would receive email notifications when replies are given to my post topics. Lesson learned!
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Is this your Elizabeth BROWN marrying Harry CROMPTON, 1917?
George BROWN, labourer, is hardly an unusual name, but Maggie CROPMTON?
Lancashire OPC https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
28 May 1917 St James, Gorton, Lancashire, England
BROWN William 26y, Boiler Maker, bachelor, 65 Taylor St.
Father: BROWN William, Labourer
BRAZENDALE Louie Beardmore 20y, Winder, Spinster, 12 Holly St.
Father: BRAZENDALE Edward James, rail fitter
Witness: John Hine BRAZENDALE Maggie CROMPTON
10 Nov 1917 St Thomas, Golborne, Lancashire, England
CROMPTON Harry 25y, Coal Miner, bachelor, 49 Wigan Rd, Ashton in Makerfield
Father: CROMPTON Henry , Engine Maker
Elizabeth BROWN 22y, spinster, Edge Green Golborne
Father: BROWN William, Labourer
Witness: George SUDWORTH Maggie CROMPTON
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https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
FreeBDM
JunQ 1883 Haslingden Vol 8e Page 220
ISHERWOOD Sarah Jane x CROWTHER John
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Apologies for such late replies. I'm new here and thought, based on experiences in other forums, that I would receive email notifications when replies are given to my post topics. Lesson learned!
It is usually set by default, but stuff happens. You're broken!
You can turn it on from the brown bar up top ...go to Profile >Account Settings
On left menu, choose: Modify Profile --> Email Notifications
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Is this your Elizabeth BROWN marrying Harry CROMPTON, 1917?
George BROWN, labourer, is hardly an unusual name, but Maggie CROPMTON?
Lancashire OPC https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
28 May 1917 St James, Gorton, Lancashire, England
BROWN William 26y, Boiler Maker, bachelor, 65 Taylor St.
Father: BROWN William, Labourer
BRAZENDALE Louie Beardmore 20y, Winder, Spinster, 12 Holly St.
Father: BRAZENDALE Edward James, rail fitter
Witness: John Hine BRAZENDALE Maggie CROMPTON
10 Nov 1917 St Thomas, Golborne, Lancashire, England
CROMPTON Harry 25y, Coal Miner, bachelor, 49 Wigan Rd, Ashton in Makerfield
Father: CROMPTON Henry , Engine Maker
Elizabeth BROWN 22y, spinster, Edge Green Golborne
Father: BROWN William, Labourer
Witness: George SUDWORTH Maggie CROMPTON
Hi, yep that's her. I have one or two Cromptons in my DNA matches but haven't been able to proceed despite that.
The Gorton marriage are not connected. William and Sarah's three children together were Henry, Robert and Elizabeth.