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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cheshire => England => Cheshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Rob - Leicester on Tuesday 25 October 22 21:24 BST (UK)
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Hello Cheshire RootsChatters.
I am helping a friend to research her family and we are looking for information about Samuel Grocott who was born around 1785. There are three possible baptisms in Wybunbury and we are trying to work out which one is 'ours'.
Fortunately the three baptisms are several years apart which does give a clue.
28 Jul 1782 - father = John Grouwcett
17 Sep 1786 - mother = Elizabeth Groucett
20 Apr 1788 - father = Peter Groukett
'Our' Samuel Grocott was married to 'Hannah' (this is from his son's baptism). (the other two Samuel's appear to have married a Lydia and Sarah respectively). Ideally we will eventually pair each Samuel up with his correct parent... but there are a lot of Samuel Grocott's in that area so it may never become clear.
We have found burials for Hannah Grocott (11 Feb 1875 Weston Cheshire) and Samuel Grocott (10 Dec 1878 Englesea Brook Methodist Chapel, Weston - age 92 which fits with the 1786 baptism). Both of these are Cheshire Non-conformist Records. They appear to have been Methodists and on the 'Runcorn Circuit'.
What we cannot on-line see is the original record. We are hoping that it may have additional information (i.e. were these two people actually a married couple? 'wife of Samuel' maybe)
Would anyone know if these records are kept at Cheshire Record Office? Would it be possible for someone there to look them up for us? (If a fee is required that would be OK).
We are currently waiting for death certificates, but hoping that the burial records might throw further clues our way.
Many Thanks
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https://www.rootschat.com/links/01rw4/
You could try this site.
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The original registers are filmed and are on Find my past. They do not mention either as the wife of or widower of etc but I would think it is extremely likely that they were well known to each other.
The chapel is now a Museum about Primitive Methodism. Apparently there is a graveyard attached to the chapel so your Grocotts might just have a gravestone. It might be worth writing to the museum to ask whether they can help. I see there are some Grocott baptisms at the chapel who could be your couple’s grandchildren.
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Children of Samuel and Hannah Groucott baptized at Wybunbury
George 23 March 1817
Dinah 5 December 1819
Alice 5 May 1822
Phoebe 19 September 1824
Catherine 11 February 1827
Samuel 27 September 1829
Sarah 10 March 1833
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Ann 25 November 1835/6 born 25 August 1835 of Samuel Groucott and Hannah Nee Cooper
Primitive Methodist Burland Cheshire. of Shevington Cheshire
Your family seems to be of Wybunbury so this Ann is questionable, although in 1841 census they do have a 6 year old Ann in the family. Keep in mind relationships not given 1841.
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There is a marriage of a Samuel Groucott to Hannah Cooper 20 December 1813 in Burslem Staffordshire.
Possible as this was about 13 miles away from Wybunbury.
If it's correct then there must be more children before 1817
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Also he was a Widower on that Marriage according to FreeREG
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I cannot find the deaths on FreeBMD anyone else?
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There is a death registration - Nantwich RD - December q 1878 - Samuel Grocott aged 84.
Added:
Nantwich RD - March q 1875 - Hannah Grocott aged 67
Both entries from FreeBMD
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Wow - what a great set of replies to find in the morning! Many thanks to you all.
hepburn - I've found that database site and have begun having a play - I had to read the instructions as it's a bit different to the usual search engines we have - but what a useful resource.
Gibel - My friend has an FindMyPast subscription - I'll get her to re-check - she told me previously that she wasn't able to see them.
amondg - I saw Ann (also transcribed as Ame) but she has disappeared by 1851 and she was a work in progress for us! There are other children in the 1851 census but any born after 1840 turned out to be illegitimate children of three of Samuel and Hannah's daughters. This Primitive Methodism theme seems to be a good clue. We have Hannah Cooper in our sights but I'd like to get a little more evidence before adding her (although she's in the research notes for 'our' Hannah and other researchers have gone for her).
trish1120 Great - we suspect that Samuel was previously married to Jane (Williams?) as there are three baptisms in Wybunbury to a Samuel & Jane 1808-1813. I believe Jane died in 1813.
BumbleB - thanks for saving me that search! We have the burials from a FamilySearch tree and they had the birth years spot on - but it looks like they weren't obtained from the actual death record as you have seen the couple are age 84 and 67 which gives birth dates of 1794 for Samuel and 1808 for Hannah - we currently have 1786 & 1793. That's a pity - it was looking good!
I guess we should wait for the Death Certificates to arrive.
Once again thanks - I really appreciate all that work by you late nighters & early birds!
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The problem is that you already have the burial information and the ages you quote in your post are the ones seen in the registers = Samuel aged 92 and Hannah aged 82.
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Many Thanks BumbleBee - I'll go with the church register ages (and not the Civil Registration) as they fit!
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Again many thanks for all the comments and help.
We have now received the two death certificates and I have come to some conclusions. I'll explain the findings and my thoughts in case the information is useful to anybody in the future.
The death certificate for Samuel Grocott has date of death 6 Dec 1878, Weston. Samuel Grocott. Male. 84 Years. Agricultural Labourer. Informant was Kate Lindop (Daughter - present at the death).
Who is Kate Lindop?
Samuel and Hannah had a daughter Catherine.
Baptism Date: 11 Feb 1827
Baptism Place: Wybunbury, Cheshire, England
Father: Samuel Groucott
Mother: Hannah
I cannot find a marriage for her, but I did find a John and Kate Lindop living in Monks Coppenhall in the 1871 census, with two sons. William born 1863 and John born 1868. The civil registrations for their births have mother's Maiden Surname as 'Groncott' and 'Groucott' respectively. This makes me fairly happy that we have the right Samuel. I am not happy however with his age at death = 84. This would give a date of birth = 1794.
I was trying to match him with one of the following Wybunbury baptisms:
28 Jul 1782 - father = John Grouwcett
17 Sep 1786 - mother = Elizabeth Groucett
20 Apr 1788 - father = Peter Groukett
BumbleBee tells me that the BURIAL record for Samuel gives an age of 92. This fits with the 1786 baptism...
Hannah Grocott's death certificate has date of death 7 Feb 1875 Englesea Brook, Weston. Hannah Grocott. Female. 61 (or 67) years. Wife of Samuel Grocott a farm labourer. Jane Taylor present at the death, Englesea Brook Weston.
We believe that Samuel's wife was Hannah Cooper around born around 1792 (average from 3 census returns). Again the age on the death certificate gives a birth year (of 1808) which does not fit, but BumbleBee's burial record age is 82 which gives 1793. Almost perfect.
Going back to the other two Samuels...
I have found a Samuel who married Lydia Lockett. In the 1851 census his age is 63 which gives us a year of birth 1788. So likely to be son of Peter.
Finally there is a Samuel who married Sarah Waste in 1805. They have their family baptised in Wybunbury between 1808-1824. However Sarah is living without Samuel in the 1841 census' at Blakenhall (but with some of their children). In 1851 she is again in Blakenhall as a widow with two grandchildren (more work needed on them). So it looks like her husband Samuel died after the birth of their youngest child Thomas, born 1824.
I have found two burials for a Samuel Grocott. The first one is noted here but I'm sure is not our man :- Samuel Grocott, Age 32, Burial Date 22 Jul 1828, Burial Place Burslem, Staffordshire. This gives a birth in 1796 which is not a good fit to any of the three Samuel's born in Wybunbury. It would also mean that he was age 9 when he married Sarah Waste in 1805.
The second burial is an almost perfect 'fit' : Samuel Growcott, age 50, Burial date 29 May 1833, Burial Place Wybunbury, Cheshire. This gives us a birth in 1783. The image of the record also tells us that Samuel is from Blakenhall.
So the final result is
Samuel Growcott baptised in Wybunbury 28 Jul 1782 - father = John Grouwcett - married Sarah Waste 1805
Samuel Growcott baptised in Wybunbury 17 Sep 1786 - mother = Elizabeth Groucett - married Hannah Cooper 1813
Samuel Growcott baptised in Wybunbury 20 Apr 1788 - father = Peter Groukett - Married Lydia Lockett 1811
Phew!
Addendum.
I forgot to mention - I was wondering why there were three Samuel's in the same village of a similar age and asked myself if maybe John, Peter and Elizabeth were siblings. I found the following series of baptisms all with a father = Samuel Grocott (I've now called him Samuel Grocott the elder... I've already got a junior and a senior!).
John Grocott Baptism 8 Mar 1743 Nantwich, Cheshire (I haven't found a burial so the Nantwich and Wybunbury children could be serarate families)
Richard Grocott Baptism 25 Oct 1745 Nantwich, Cheshire
Thomas Grocott Baptism 11 Jun 1749 Nantwich, Cheshire. Burial 29 Sep 1750 Nantwich, Cheshire
John Grocott Baptism 10 Nov 1754 Wybunbury, Cheshire
Peter Grocott Baptism 17 Apr 1757 Wybunbury, Cheshire
Mary Grocott Baptism 3 Jun 1760 Wybunbury, Cheshire
Elizabeth Grocott Baptism 18 Mar 1764 Wybunbury, Cheshire
Jane Grocott Baptism 13 Aug 1769 Wybunbury, Cheshire
I also found a possible baptism for Samuel the elder : May 27 1719 Wybunbury, Cheshire, father = Stephen Groucott.