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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Revolution on Sunday 23 October 22 14:10 BST (UK)
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Hi!
Im helping my cousin find his fathers family. My cousin has DNA tested on ancestry and has good 400cM matches to the descendants of Francis (Frank) Rivier.
Its an odd surname in New Zealand name and I think its a made up one. His life from 1914 onwards is fairly well documented but I cant find a trace of him in England. IN his WWI war record in New Zealand he names a Eugene Cobri/Covri as an uncle who lived in England
Attached is the reference. Can anyone read the surname as I cant find anyone named with the variants I have typed above?
Thanks in advance!
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Hi....
I have found a Eugene CORRI who is a stockbroker in 1911 ......possible misspelling on the paper.
Tazzie
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1862 - 1933
Surprise at funeral for Eugene Corri
The Daily Telegraph London, Greater London, England
28 Dec 1933, Thu Page 5
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/111841898/the-daily-telegraph/
1911 census Prittlewell, Southend On Sea, Essex (given by tazzie above)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWN3-Z18
Sandra
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He was brought up in charges of firstly manslaughter then murder due to the death of a boxer whilst Eugene was the Time Keeper in 1901. Fighter was Billy Smith.
Then another case in 1898 for the manslaughter of Thomas Turner.
Tazzie
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From what Tazzie has found, and Sandra's FS link, this is a family tree showing on FS www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/GWFL-ST7
So, to fit with the uncle ref, Eugene looks to have had at least 5 sisters. So which one married a Rivier man?
Monica
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Can't see any possible marriage in England to fit these names www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Looking at online trees (which as always need verification ::)), Eugune's sisters do not look to have married a Rivier man.
Just from trees:
Eleanor b. 1846 married Douglas Gade
Bessie b. 1854 married Robert Jarvis
Mary b. 1857 married Charles Lord
Josephine b. 1858 married Sam Bright
Alice b. 1860 married Charles Ironmonger
A lot of family researchers for them all online.
What was Frank Rivier's birth year? Added: Just seen 25-02-1892 on his form which is his birth? Any clues as to where he was born?
Monica
PS: Hope you find the connection. The Corri family look to be an interesting family to research!
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The Uncle ref for Eugene could also some from a sister to partner/wife to Eugene Corri. He seemed to have been linked with a Madeline Sidney Hussey and Edna A Warendorph.
Monica
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Repeat of some of above which have been posted while I was searching.
In 1901 Eugene CORRI was tried for the manslaughter of Murray LIVINGSTONE aka Billy SMITH at the Old Bailey - verdict - No Agreement. Bill SMITH of Philadelphia died of injuries in a boxing fight.
1898 there was some case involving a Thomas TURNER.
London Gazette 1915 Firm of Stockbrokers E. O. LLOYD, Harold HARDY, Eugene CORRI & Francis Edward HALSEY was dissolved.
London Gazette 1921 Bankruptcy order for CORRI, Eugene a Member of the National Sporting Club, Covent Garden, London
Marriage 16 Apr 1891 Eugene Alfred CORRI age 28 father Patriceus Constantine CORRI & Madeline Sidney HUSSEY age 22 father Henry Nesbitt HUSSEY. Place Hammersmith.
Birth q3 1862 Eugene Alfred CORRI mmn WOULDS Shoreditch 1c 184.
Birth q3 1873 Madeline Sidney HUSSEY 2a 257 Kingston.
Baptism at Wimbledon 26 Oct 1873 Madeline Sidney HUSSEY daur of Henry James Nesbitt HUSSEY, occupation Clerk, mother Augustus Bloomfield HUSSEY
Marriage q4 1872 Lambeth 1d 554 - Henry James N HUSSEY & Augusta Bloomfield SIDNEY
marriage q2 1844 Pat~~ Constantine CORRI & ? Kings Norton 18 505
1891 census, Rowan Road Hammersmith Eugene and Madeline CORRI. Stock Broker Agent
1871 census has Patricuis C CORRI age 49 born Ireland and his wife is Mary j age 49 Born Somerset. Child Eugene A is age 8.
1861 census has Pats birth in Dublin.
So none of that explains why Frank RIVIES was a nephew of Eugene Alfred CORRI but Eugene had about ten brothers and sisters.
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Has your cousin checked what is written on Frank's marriage registration?
1916/1263 - Beatrice Milne and Francis Rivier
https://bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search
Monica
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Birth date also showing here:
Musician Frank Rivier attested in the New Zealand Expeditionary Force at Invercargill, 17th August 1914. He had already served 3 years in the 2nd Life Guards. His overseas service lasted 331 days from 16th October 1914 to 11th September 1915. He was discharged with a ruptured hernia September 1915 having returned to N.Z. on the S.S. Tahiti.
It appears he re-enlisted, despite being declared permanently unfit, in October 1917 into the Military Police and served 108 in that unit being finally discharged 28th March 1918.
Frank Rivier, born in London, 25th July 1892, died in Auckland 19th May 1969, his next of kin, Mrs Rivier, living at Arawa Street, Orakei.
www.medalsandmemorabilia.com/product/nz-infantry-gallipoli-landings-medal-group/
Note on his records showed birth month as February rather than July.
Monica
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There is a family called La Riviere at Prittlewell, same place as Eugene was in 1911, which seems a bit of a coincidence.
They have a son Frank Gerald too, of about the right age, who seems to have got into a spot of bother when he was 20, and served a prison term. He seems to have gone to Australia and called himself Gerald Riviere when he married there in 1916. This Francis Gerald was born 6 Aug 1893, according to the death registration back in the UK. This fits with his birth registration in England.
Could someone have stolen his name and gone on to New Zealand, but perhaps used their own date of birth? New Zealand Frank seems unsure of his birth year, varies from 1890 to 1892 from attestation docs, but the date seems to stay the same.Or could there be a case of bigamy? Or is it just a massive coincidence?
It would be interesting to see if there are any DNA links to the La Riviere family.
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/sources/L2LD-FYY
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Interesting possibilities there :)
Wonder if Frank's marriage cert includes anything definitive.
Certainly there is a connection to Throgmorton Street and Eugene Corri in the right time frame www.boxingnewsonline.net/the-king-of-boxing-referees/ Can't yet find a listing showing the street number for his firm as 6 Throgmorton Street but the street is correct.
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Many thanks everyone!
DNA matches to the Hussey family (50cM) -could be coincidence but hes a descendant of Wm Hayter Hussey
My cousin is related to me through his mums side. Hes in his 70s and was told some fascinating stories by his father who I think was an illegitimate son of Frank Rivier.
My cousins father told him many stories. He changed his name at least once - possibly from Howard Adcock to Howard Stratton. He told his son to NEVER to go Melbourne and his son who lives in Queensland after moving from New Zealand has never gone there. His father knew a New Zealand politician Mabel Howard. His father had an argument with Mabel and she never came to the house again.
When passports started between Australia and NZ his father had to change his name to Stratton from whatever it was previously.
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No DNA matches to the La Rivier family.
My cousin hasnt purchased the marriage as he knew nothing about this line
113cM DNA match to Tom Haydn Corri Brown descendant but only a 13 cM to a Corri family shared with another descendant of Frank Rivier
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William Hayter Hussey was the paternal grandfather of Madeline Sidney Hussey, first wife of Eugene Corri.
William Hayter Hussey and wife Sarah Ann Hill had at least 5 children. One of them, Henry James nesbit Hussey, was Madeline's father.
So there we have a ref to the Hussey family and Eugene Corri being described as Uncle potentially. However, I think Madeline only seems to have had one sister, Marian Rosamond Nesbitt Hussey b. 1876. Too young you would think to be mother to Francis.
Monica
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Ive just purchased the marriage of Frank to Beatrice Milne
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Good plan ;)
Marion Rosamond Hussey, spinster aged 21, married in London in 1897 to Charles Brandon. Eugene Corri was a witness to the marriage.
Monica
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Were your cousin's parents married? This would help you with working out names. I can't see an early NZ ref to a Howard Adcock. There is one for a Harold Adcock, with a marriage in 1930 (bride's maiden name Sangster).
Monica
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My cousins mother was Dorothy Joyce Douglas. Ive asked my cousin if his parents were married and when.
My cousin was told the stories about his father by his sister. He said they kept the family history from him.
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Im speculating that Howard Stratton also known as Eric Adcock/Stratton was the illegitimate son of Francis Rivier. Perhaps adopted by George Henry AdCock and Adelaide Ellen Howard.
I searched the New Zealand BDM site for Eric Adcock and Eric Stratton turned up
Coincidence?
DNA isnt showing me any good Howard matches in a scenario where Francis had a child With Adelaide
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It seems to be more than a coincidence. The politician I mentioned earlier was born in Bowden, South Australia and emigrated to Christchurch, New Zealand as did Adelaide Ellen Howard who married George Henry Adcock
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There is a Dennis Roughton Corri born in 1892. Mother is a Madeline Sidney Hussey. He was in the household cavalry. Similar feature set
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Frank
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Similar tattoo - 1910 Canada
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Good possibility Ive made a bad link - Denis Corri-Veau in Canada.
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See where you are going with Dennis and Frank here...
This is a clip from the newspaper the Sport (Dublin) 10 July 1915:
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An older thread on the family for further background www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=837305.0
Monica
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Someone has a brief family tree for Adelaide Howard with these details:
Adelaide Ellen Howard
18921919
Birth 20 JUN 1892 Bowden, South Australia, Australia
Death 2 JUL 1919 Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand
Monica
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Musician Frank Rivier attested in the New Zealand Expeditionary Force at Invercargill, 17th August 1914. He had already served 3 years in the 2nd Life Guards. His overseas service lasted 331 days from 16th October 1914 to 11th September 1915. He was discharged with a ruptured hernia September 1915 having returned to N.Z. on the S.S. Tahiti.
It appears he re-enlisted, despite being declared permanently unfit, in October 1917 into the Military Police and served 108 in that unit being finally discharged 28th March 1918.
Frank Rivier, born in London, 25th July 1892, died in Auckland 19th May 1969, his next of kin, Mrs Rivier, living at Arawa Street, Orakei.
www.medalsandmemorabilia.com/product/nz-infantry-gallipoli-landings-medal-group/
I keep on going back to this short bio of Frank Rivierr's military life.
Timing fits well with what we are building up for Dennis Corri...
Dennis's attested with the 2nd Life Guards on 2 April 1909. See, from the notes above for Frank Rivier, we have a further ref to this regiment: He had already served 3 years in the 2nd Life Guards. Again, timings would work.
Did Dennis change his identity in NZ? The big question is of course why? What happened in his life to make him take this action? Speculation for now isn't it ;D
Monica
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Just fascinating! Thank you
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Howard Reynolds Adcock changed his name to Eric Stratton via Deed Poll after 1954. His birth 24 November 1917.
Eric died in 1982.
What does the DNA show? At this stage not one Adcock family member and not one Howard family or any Goring family members.
One scenario is that the Adcocks adopted him shortly before Adelaide died.
Another is that no Adcocks or closer cousins have DNA tested
Some of the matches dont have family trees and are low level matches and I havent yet found a link
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Understand better the reference to surnames Howard and Goring from here https://teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/5h38/howard-mabel-bowden
So it was Mabel's sister, Adelaide, who married George Henry Adcock in 1911 and potentially adopted Howard (Eric) prior to her death in 1919.
With the birth date you have for Howard Adcock aka Eric Stratton in November 1917, this would be the year after Frank Riviers married Beatrice Milne.
Monica
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I am not confident when researching in NZ as it is not something I do often ;D So, from the birth index you posted earlier (adding here too), I am right to guess that the birth index has been amended to show the change of name by deed poll, from Howard to Eric?
What does the reference for this entry mean do you think? 1918/5242, what does this mean I wonder. Is this linked to Howard/Eric's original birth entry under whatever name? Although, you search for Howard Adcock, it is the entry with Eric that shows.
Have you considered ordering this cert to see what shows on this?
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My cousin who is significantly better than I am with genealogical research sent me the following.
He has changed his name to Eric Stratton.
His death is registered as Eric Stratton in 1982/ 30523 with DOB 24 Nov 1917
The microfiche for the births 1918 shows the following
ADCOCK Howard Reynolds Folio 1255
Underneath in hand writing is: STRATTON Eric, Folio 1255
Folio 1255 is Linwood Christchurch, March Qtr which would tie in with date of birth of 24 Nov 1917
I have looked at the name of Stratton on the birth indexes and very interesting is his name of Eric Stratton is written in handwriting, and guess what in the side is a D.P. standing for Deed Poll
So now we know he did it himself via Deed Poll.
Re the certificate. Not yet.
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Musician Frank Rivier attested in the New Zealand Expeditionary Force at Invercargill, 17th August 1914. He had already served 3 years in the 2nd Life Guards. His overseas service lasted 331 days from 16th October 1914 to 11th September 1915. He was discharged with a ruptured hernia September 1915 having returned to N.Z. on the S.S. Tahiti.
It appears he re-enlisted, despite being declared permanently unfit, in October 1917 into the Military Police and served 108 in that unit being finally discharged 28th March 1918.
Frank Rivier, born in London, 25th July 1892, died in Auckland 19th May 1969, his next of kin, Mrs Rivier, living at Arawa Street, Orakei.
www.medalsandmemorabilia.com/product/nz-infantry-gallipoli-landings-medal-group/
I keep on going back to this short bio of Frank Rivierr's military life.
Timing fits well with what we are building up for Dennis Corri...
Dennis's attested with the 2nd Life Guards on 2 April 1909. See, from the notes above for Frank Rivier, we have a further ref to this regiment: He had already served 3 years in the 2nd Life Guards. Again, timings would work.
Did Dennis change his identity in NZ? The big question is of course why? What happened in his life to make him take this action? Speculation for now isn't it ;D
Monica
Dennis Corri lasted a mere 242 days : 2 Apr 1909 - 30 November 1909 with a note in his record 'Unsuitable for the Household Cavalry' . The following year, August 1910 he headed for Seattle crossing the Border at St Albans Canada. Rivier a French sounding name. Did he come across the name there?
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Francis marriage certificate was just emailed to me
Francis Rivier age 23 Pianist -son of Eugene Rivier - stockbroker and Edna River (Adendoph)
Marriage dissolved 26 May 1938
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Francis marriage certificate was just emailed to me
Francis Rivier age 23 Pianist -son of Eugene Rivier - stockbroker and Edna River (Adendoph)
Marriage dissolved 26 May 1938
Interesting. Denis Corri's father, Eugene Alfred Corri was a Stockbroker and famous Boxing referee. His step-mother's name was Edna Warendorph (not far phonetically from Adendoph). And one of Eugene Alfred Corri's ancestors was Domenico Corri a music composer who migrated from Rome -Edinburgh - London
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I think Dennis has given the game away by listing those names for his parents on the marriage reg ::) The only way to confirm further would likely be through DNA testing now.
I can see this tree www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/51422557/person/152427139170/facts You likely have seen this or be connected with it?
Monica
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chinapaddy, am I right in thinking that Dennis's grandfather, Patrick Constantine Corri, was also a noted Vocalist?
Monica
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I can see this tree www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/51422557/person/152427139170/facts You likely have seen this or be connected with it?
Monica
I don't have a Paid account with Ancestry so I can't view the Person you have linked
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Sorry, that is pain when you need a subs to view info :-\
Monica
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chinapaddy, am I right in thinking that Dennis's grandfather, Patrick Constantine Corri, was also a noted Vocalist?
Monica
in 1871 UK Census, Patrick Constantine Corri lists his occupation as 'Professor of Music'. I see Francis Rivier lists his occupation as 'Pianist'. Dennis's Great Grandfather Haydn Joseph Lewis Corri was Organist at Dublin's Pro Cathedral for more 30 years. My Profile pic is a Portrait of Dennis's GGgrandfather Domenico Corri
Dennis Corri is my 2nd cousin twice removed
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Have you come across this info here https://collections.ed.ac.uk/art/record/19684?highlight=*
Always good to see images of who you are researching I think.
Certainly a musical dynasty it seems.
Monica
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Your avatar, is this Domenico Corri (father of Hayden, grandfather to Patrick Constantine)?
Added: Sorry, see you have made a note on this above.
What a talented and fascinating life they have must led :)
Monica
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Have you come across this info here https://collections.ed.ac.uk/art/record/19684?highlight=*
Always good to see images of who you are researching I think.
Certainly a musical dynasty it seems.
Monica
https://www.historyscotland.com/history/italian-musicians-domenico-corri-and-his-wife-la-miniatrice-arrived-i/
Indeed. Haydn Corri was son of Domenico (my Portrait pic).
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Fascinating history :) You must have enjoyed researching their lives.
Monica
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Dennis Corri wasn't new to changing his name. He was born Dennis Roughton Corri but when he enlisted in The Household Cavalry he gives his middle name as 'Ralph'. Perhaps he just didn't like the name 'Roughton'.
Dennis's Father Eugene Corri says in one of his books 'My father changed his surname from Corry to Corri to make it appear more Italian in the hopes of furthering his singing career.' Which is a strange quotation as his father Patricius Corri was never born Corry.
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The freedom to be able to change what they wanted!
I wonder why Dennis didn't give his mother's name on his Rivier marriage cert but instead gave the name of his father's second partner, Edna.
Wonder where and when Madeline Hussey died. Eugene and Edna never married did they? Likely because Madeline was still alive and no divorce had taken place?
Monica
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Yes Ive created a family tree for my cousin. His DNA matches are all nicely fitting into the tree. There are Corri only family lines he matches to as well as Frank Rivier daughters.
When Ive done a bit more work Ill get a second opinion on it.
Next step is to find my cousins fathers mother who Frank had an affair with.
I have also been wondering about this!
I wonder why Dennis didn't give his mother's name on his Rivier marriage cert but instead gave the name of his father's second partner, Edna.
Wonder where and when Madeline Hussey died. Eugene and Edna never married did they? Likely because Madeline was still alive and no divorce had taken place?
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I have also been wondering about this!
I wonder why Dennis didn't give his mother's name on his Rivier marriage cert but instead gave the name of his father's second partner, Edna.
Wonder where and when Madeline Hussey died. Eugene and Edna never married did they? Likely because Madeline was still alive and no divorce had taken place?
Dennis may have subsequently had a falling out his step-mother.
The Scotsman 28 December 1933 report ends: 'Only Mrs Corri was with her husband when he died. Mr Corri leaves three sons.
Eugene Corri had four sons with Edna, one had died in WWI. So including Dennis he left four sons.
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Dennis was 9 in 1901 so new who is mother was. Did he want to dissociate from her?
Did she have a mental breakdown?
His fathers first child with his stepmother was born remarkably quickly after the census
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Dennis was 9 in 1901 so new who is mother was. Did he want to dissociate from her?
Did she have a mental breakdown?
His fathers first child with his stepmother was born remarkably quickly after the census
Dennis's stepmother was born in Minnesota to Norwegian parents Edvard Wardcudorph and Anna Olsen.
1901 UK Census Edna Warendorph is single and living in Lambeth. (same area as Eugene Corri)
As well as being a Stockbroker. Eugene Corri was also a well-known boxing referee in the UK and USA and travelled many times to US where he likely met Edna.
The first three sons of Eugene and Edna are born with name of Warendorph and in 1909 youngest boy John Edward Krone is born Corri with MMN as Warendorph
1911 Uk Census All boys have the Corri surname and Edna is listed as 'Wife'. UK/USA/ Norway perhaps there is a marriage for Eugene and Edna somewhere. I haven't discovered it yet.
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As a by and by...
I think Dennis has been included in family household entry for 1901 in error.
There is this alternative entry which I think is likely him:
Dennis Corri, 9 b. London, boarder
www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9F1-F5K
He shows in a listing of boys at Thanet Hall College, St Peters Footpath, Margate. www.margatelocalhistory.co.uk/HotSpotViewer/OS_1907_Pics/St%20Peters%20Footpath.html
Monica
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The last mention I can find so far of Madeline Sidney Hussey is this entry here https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/7eab0c0c-673d-4295-a664-a99e51a7e2a1
At this time, the 1905 electoral Rolls shows Eugene as residing 50 Great Cumberland Place.
Monica
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The last mention I can find so far of Madeline Sidney Hussey is this entry here https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/7eab0c0c-673d-4295-a664-a99e51a7e2a1
At this time, the 1905 electoral Rolls shows Eugene as residing 50 Great Cumberland Place.
Monica
Madeline is mentioned in the deeds of her g/mother Sarah Ann Hussey in November 1906 .
1 Madeline Sidney Corri of 12 Edith Grove South Kensington Middlesex, wife of Eugine Alfred Corri
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/7eab0c0c-673d-4295-a664-a99e51a7e2a1
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I still havent found who Frank had a child with but have found a small DNA 24-71cM connection to 3 descendants of George Henry Adcock and Adelaide Ellen Howard.
My theory is that Frank had a brief affair with Adelaide and the DNA is from that relationship. Theres a tiny amount of shared matches. No Goring or broader Howards I can link. No Adcocks at all
More work to do.
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Thanks for update :)
Have you managed to make any contact with the descendants of Frank? I wonder what if anything they know of Frank's early years in Australia. Wonder also whether any of them have done or have considered doing a DNA test.
Monica
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I have indeed. Descendants of Frank's two daughters. High shared cM - 417, 410, 203, 183, 138cM. No one knows about Frank or his parents. The mystery ancestor for most
I've ordered the death certificate for Eric Stratton, death of Francis Rivier and marriage of Eric Stratton in 1941.
I wonder if Eric/Howard was a war avoider?
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Francis Rivier death
19 May 1969 5 Te Arawa Street, Orakei, Auckland, New Zealand
Parents listed as Eugene Rivier and Agnes Warendolph. Born London, England. Parents were actually Eugene Alfred Corri and Madeline Sidney Hussey. Agnes was his stepmother.
Howard Reynolds Adcock listed in the New Zealand Police Gazette in 1936. Suspected of lying about his age to get the unemployment benefit. They thought he was employed as a seaman.
Eric Stratton World War II ballot list. Living at 34 Austin St, Wellington. May 1941
Eric Stratton marriage
16 Jun 1941 Registrar's Office, Auckland, Auckland, New Zealand
Witnesses: M.W Lother (spinster) and Richard G Osburn. Eric says his father is George Henry Stratton and mother is Maud Howard.
Eric Stratton death
24 Jan 1982 Mater Private Hospital, Epsom, Auckland, New Zealand
On his death certificate Erics parents are listed as George Henry Stratton and Maud Howard. Erics birth is listed under parents George Henry Adcock and Adelaide Ellen Howard.
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You certainly seem to have a full collection there :) All more or less connects with what you have been building up for background.
Can I ask, I am right to think the only missing cert for Alfred Eric is his natural birth cert? Adoption record is indexed as 1917?
Monica
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Great to have nearly all of it confirmed via DNA.
My original assumption was that Howard Reynolds Adcock was adopted by Adcock/Howard family but there are DNA matches to that family. I need more proof but Francis Rivier may have gotten Adelaide Adcock nee Howard pregnant. Very unusual because she was actively having children during this time.
The DNA matches to Francis known children are very very good.
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So that 1917 birth entry, you think it might be the original birth cert? Showing Adelaide and husband as parents?
Monica
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On a side line, just checking if you have seen Edna Warendorph's US Passport application from 1896?
She sounds an intrepid soul :)
www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/1236258:1174?tid=&pid=&queryId=a29707a73e0f13eb8ab4f3ede0b0eef5&_phsrc=owm530&_phstart=successSource
Likely she came to the UK not long after this?
Monica
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Yes indeed. Ive just ordered it.
I had not seen Ednas passport before. Fascinating.
Thank you
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Howard Reynolds Adcock
Born 24 Nov 1917 at 69 Mile Road, Avonside, Christchurch
Father George Henry Adcock. Occupation holderup NZ Rifles. Married 7 Oct 1911 in Christchurch.
One male age 5 and one female age 4 born previously.
Mother Adelaide Ellen Adcock nee Howard age 25 years born Adelaide, South Australia
Informant was Maud Adcock. Authorised by mother. Address 69 Mile road.
Registered 21 January 1918
Change of name to Eric Stratton in 1976.
So Eric used his name without it being official.
New theory is that perhaps of of Adelaide sisters was the mother. Why? Erics son is a DNA match to the Howards/Adcock line but the DNA match for 1st cousin twice removed is 47 to 72cM. There is a 2% chance that is accurate according to the Shared cM calculator. There are no Adcock matches from Georges parents or grandparents but there are from Adelaides grandparents.
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.... His father knew a New Zealand politician Mabel Howard. His father had an argument with Mabel and she never came to the house again.
Adelaide only had two sisters didn't she, Mabel and Elsie.
Mabel we had discussed earlier (guessing she is the Mabel Howard you mentioned at the begining, as showing above) www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/79848457/flashback-mabel-howard-becomes-first-nz-woman-cabinet-minister She never married.
What do you know about Elsie? Born 1897, when did she marry?
Added: Did Elsie marry Thomas Victor Lamont I wonder in 1923. www.wikitree.com/wiki/Lamont-659
So, either sister would have been around to perhaps be 'mother'.
Monica
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Thomas Victor Lamont (1897-1972)
born in Rakaia, Canterbury to Thomas Laurence Lamont & Martha Jane Morgan
married Elsie Howard in 1923
Press, 25 Oct 1923 - WOMEN'S CORNER
Miss M. Howard was hostess at a linen shower evening last Saturday given in honour of her sister Miss Elsie Howard, whose marriage to Mr T. Lamont takes place next week. Some beautiful presents of linen were received and an enjoyable evening was spent in games and dancing. Those present included Mr and Mrs Leader, Misses M. and E. Howard, M. Carter, W. Adcock, E. Lawrence, E. Lighfoot, M. Halliday, G. Welsh, G. Thompson and I. Sutherland. Messrs T. Lamont, E. Nuttall, A. Midgeley, J. Birss, W. and D. Taylor, C. Gordon, W. Lester, E. Brightling and F. Regerson
www.familytreecircles.com/u/ngairedith/?sort=alpha&%3Bnext=1911&next=2151
Monica
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There is something not right with Elsie Elizabeth's memorial :-\
This is the image for her, next to her sister www.flickr.com/photos/porkynz/3949460797 at the foot of her father's memorial. This shows her death date as 1973, aged 93. However, she was born in late 1897.
Find a Grave gives year as 1993 www.findagrave.com/memorial/156707806/elsie-elizabeth-lamont which fits with the death index entry for her (although her birth year is wrong here, so she would have been 96 at death really?):
1993/43301 Lamont Elsie Elizabeth 29 December 1900
Main memorial for their father, Edwin John "Ted" www.flickr.com/photos/porkynz/3949460587/in/photostream/
Again, I add these here in case you haven't come across them before.
Monica
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Name Elsie Elizabeth Howard
Birth Date 29 Dec 1897
Birth Place Adelaide
Registration Place Adelaide, South Australia, Australia
Father Edwin John Howard
Mother Harriet Goring
Page number 205
Volume Number 615
So clearly lied about her age back then? She married at age 26 which was up there for the time. She dies age 95 but I guess if you modify the facts it makes it hard for others to track it.