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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: the fisherman on Saturday 22 October 22 17:02 BST (UK)
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I would appreciate any help to progress the family tree of one of my grandfathers sisters.
Elizabeth Hilton was born in 1872 in Ince, the daughter of John Hilton and Susannah Hilton (nee Unsworth). If I am correct Elizabeth married William James Wright (b1872) at St. Peters in Hindley in 1896. The 1901 census shows them living at 16, Lord St. Hindley, with a daughter Hannah aged 1, and Ann aged 75, who I assume is Williams mother.
The 1911 census shows Elizabeth living at 5,Back Granby St. Hindley with three children, Hannah aged 11, James aged 5, and Nellie aged 2. William is not shown on the census so it is possible he died between the birth of Nellie and the 1901 census. I have looked for a death for him on Lancashire BMD and LancsOPC but I can't find one.
It is also possible that Elizabeth remarried, but I don't know how to find that information.
Thank you for any help.
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Elizabeth is shown as married on the 1911 entry - not widowed
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There are 3 Wright children reg Wigan 1913/1915/1920 with mmn as Hilton.
Maybe try 1921 Register.
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Children
Hannah 1899 registered Wigan
Emily 1901 died 1902 Age 0 registered Wigan (baptized twice 22 December 1901 and 6 March 1902 St Peter's Hindley)
James registered 1905 Wigan
Nellie registered 1908 Wigan
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When looking at Wright/Hilton births - Joseph Wright married Ann Hilton 1903 Wigan.
Apart from the children listed in 1901 & 1911 there is a possibility any others from 1911 onwards could belong to a different family
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That is possible, thanks CaroleW :)
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When William James Wright married Elizabeth Hilton in 1896 he records his father as William Wright,deceased. Believe this to be incorrect.. He appears in 1881 census as below.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27G-33G5
Mary Garside is nee' Wright, married William Garside dq 1871 Wigan
Ellen Wright
WRIGHT, ELLEN mmn HESKETH
GRO Reference: 1855 S Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 51
William James,
WRIGHT, WILLIAM JAMES mmn HESKETH
GRO Reference: 1872 M Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 49
When William James was baptised 25th February 1872 his dob is recorded as 16th January 1872 and his parents James & Ann, (believe their marriage jq 1847 Wigan)
The 1939 register does record a William J Wright with this dob living in Radclffe.
Possible death
WRIGHT, WILLIAM JAMES 82
GRO Reference: 1954 M Quarter in HEYWOOD Volume 10C Page 499. (This registration district includes Radcliffe)
John
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This would be the Ellen in the census attached
Ellen Wright registered June quarter 1866 Wigan 08C page 25 mmn Hesketh
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Quote from opening post,
"Elizabeth Hilton was born in 1872 in Ince, the daughter of John Hilton and Susannah Hilton (nee Unsworth)"
Birth
HILTON, ELIZABETH UNSWORTH
GRO Reference: 1871 D Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 82
Do you have her birth certificate giving exact dob. If so was it the 8th November 1871.
John
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Again a quote from opening post
"Elizabeth Hilton was born in 1872 in Ince,
Is it possible she married James Johnson 3.2. 1894 Wigan. Father recorded as John Hilton -occ Collier.
1901.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9GG-7LZ
1911 ref 23029 458 14
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The Elizabeth Wright you found in 1901/11 was born in Hindley
John
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CaroleW, Thank you for that information. I didn't think to check the census for her marital status.
trish1120, I am a complete novice when it comes to family history. When you say there are three Wright children reg Wigan with mmn as Hilton can you tell me which register you mean.
amondg, I would love to know how you found out that there was another child, Emily b1901 d1902.
Also is there any reason why the other three childrens ages are all 1 year different from the census.?
johnhood, I clicked your link for familysearch but it is asking me to log in. I will have to see about creating an account so I can follow your link. Also I do not have the birth certificate of Elizabeth Hilton, I only have the census. I do have a copy of a marriage certificate which I believe is from the St Peter register of marriages book, page 121. It gives her address as 94, Platt Lane and her age as 24 years.
It is perfectly possible I have the wrong marriage for Elizabeth, I will have to try and follow up on the marriage you have suggested , to James Johnson. As for Elizabeths place of birth, on the 1871 census for Ince her parents lived at 143 Petticoat Lane Ince and on the 1881 census they lived at 268 Petticoat Lane Ince. I have just looked at the 1901 and 1911 census's again and you are quite right, that Elizabeth is shown as being born in Hindley. Looks like it might be back to the drawing board. Thank you very much for all that information.
And thank you very much to everyone else for their help.
Maybe some kind person will be able to definately confirm if I have or have not, got the correct marriage. :)
the fisherman
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Children found using the GRO index.
There are a number of children with surname Wright and mother Hilton born in Wigan.
I used the census entries to find known children listed and then looked for baptisms.
That's how I found Emily.
St. Peter's Hindley
Hannah born 1 August 1899 bap. 14 September - address Lord's Street father overlooker
Emily as above GRO Index for her death
James born 2 October 1905 bap. 26 October --Atherton Road
Nellie born 1 July 1908 bap. 30 August -Atherton Road
The age difference depended if the child had a birthday before or after the census was taken.
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To know if you have the correct marriage go back to your last known factual evidence.
You say you are looking for your grandfather's sister.
Who is he and what have you found so far.
When and where did he die. Who was his father on his marriage certificate. How old was he when he died.
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Lancashire OPC https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
Marriage: 29 Feb 1896 St Peter, Hindley, Lancashire, England
William James WRIGHT 24y, Overlooker in Mill, Bachelor, 5 Albert Street
Father: William WRIGHT dec collier
Elizabeth HILTON - 24, Spinster, 94 Platt Lane
Father: John HILTON collier
Witness: Robert Israel DARBYSHIRE Annie HILTON
Ancestry England Census 1891 78 Walther Lane Hindley Lancashire
DARBYSHIRE Thomas 58y coalminer b. Kitt Green Lancashire
DARBYSHIRE Sarah 58y b. Ince Lancashire
DARBYSHIRE Thomas 23y coalminer b. Hindley Lancashire
DARBYSHIRE Robert 19y striker blacksmith b. Hindley Lancashire
DARBYSHIRE Mary 17y b. Hindley Lancashire
DARBYSHIRE Peter 13y coalminer b. Hindley Lancashire
HILTON John 7y g.son b. Hindley Lancashire
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Hi,
There are the following entries on findagrave,com which may be Elizabeth's parents -
At Ince in Makerfield Cemetery, Wigan
Susannah Hilton - Birth 1847 Death 30 October 1895 age 48 - notes say Petticoat Lane wife of John C429 RC.
and a MAYBE for John Hilton - Birth 1845 Death 27 April 1910 age 65 - notes say Union Workshop, Wigan C1608 CofE
Worth exploring?
Alan
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As she was b 1871 she could have married any time from 1891 onwards. There are at least 8 Elizabeth Hilton marriages in the Wigan RD from 1891-1901 - how did you arrive at the 1896 marriage being hers?
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To know if you have the correct marriage go back to your last known factual evidence.
You say you are looking for your grandfather's sister.
Who is he and what have you found so far.
When and where did he die. Who was his father on his marriage certificate. How old was he when he died.
I'm been following the brother's of Elizabeth who had a mother's maiden name Unsworth.
Joseph born 1869, married mq 1891 Mary Ann Hulock
John William born 1877 died 1906 aged 27
Thomas born 25.4.1892, died 1972 married Ann Gore dq 1914, died.
Are either Joseph or Thomas your family line.
John
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Children found using the GRO index.
There are a number of children with surname Wright and mother Hilton born in Wigan.
I used the census entries to find known children listed and then looked for baptisms.
That's how I found Emily.
St. Peter's Hindley
Hannah born 1 August 1899 bap. 14 September - address Lord's Street father overlooker
Emily as above GRO Index for her death
James born 2 October 1905 bap. 26 October --Atherton Road
Nellie born 1 July 1908 bap. 30 August -Atherton Road
The age difference depended if the child had a birthday before or after the census was taken.
with the dates of birth provided by amondg, James and Hannah appear in 1939 with these dates. Also with them is mother Elizabeth with a dob 14.7.1871 all living in Stockport. A contender for her death
Deaths Mar 1940
Wright Elizabeth aged 68 Stockport 8a 180
John
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That 1939 birthdate does not match a birth registration in December qtr 1871 with mmn Unsworth.
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the fisherman, other's may want to check out but the Elizabeth Hilton who married William James Wright is NOT the daughter of John Hilton & Susanna Unsworth.
Her parents are John Hilton & Hannah Hotchkiss/Hutchkiss. They married mq 1869 Wigan and had the following children:
Esther 1869
Elizabeth 1871
HILTON, ELIZABETH mmn HUTCHKISS (this allows for dob 14.7.1871 as per 1939 register )
GRO Reference: 1871 S Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 71
Annie 1873
William 1875
Emily 1877
John 1880
William 1882
John & Hannah appear in 1871/1881.
Hannah died dq 1882 aged 34 in Wigan.
John remarried Mary Oakes mq 1883 Wigan.
1891 census ref 3058 71A 41 (on Findmy past transcribed as surname Willton) and living at 94 Platt Lane Hindley as per marriage address of Elizabeth.
Strongly believe "your" Elizabeth married James Johnson 3.2.1894 in Wigan.
John
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amondg. Thank you for the information about how you found the children although I am no wiser as to what the GRO index means. You ask who my grandfather is. I don't have his marriage certificate to quote who his father is but I have his death certificate. Thomas Hilton b1892 at 74, Petticoat Lane, Ince, d1972 at 9, Engineer St. Ince. I do have the marriage certificate of his parents, John Hilton and Susannah Unsworth. Married 4th Nov 1867 at St. Patrick's, Wigan. John was 22 and Susannah was 21. Both resided in Petticoat Lane, Ince. Both fathers, John Hilton and William Unsworth were miners.
wivenhoe, Thank you for that marriage, I will follow that up.
Tall Al, those deaths are correct, Susannah Hilton and her son John Willie and I believe her father William Unsworth are all buried together in the one grave. There is also a two day old son of my grandparents Thomas and Ann Hilton in the same grave. John Willie died in a mining accident at what I believe is the Spring Pit in Hindley. I have a report of the inquest from the Wigan Examiner dated 20th Jan 1906. The cemetery index's for Wigan, Ince, and Hindley are available on the "Wiganworld" website.
johnhood Those three names are in my family tree.Thomas was my grandfather and Joseph and John Willie were his two brothers. See my answer to amondg for your other answers. Thank you for the information as to how you found Emily. Also for your info that the Elizabeth Hilton who married William James Wright is not John Hilton and Susannah Unsworths daughter. Must check on the possible marriage to James Johnson in 1894.
CaroleW The person who is helping me with my family tree and has access to Ancestry came up with that marriage. I did say in my request for help with my family tree " If I am correct........". It looks like I might not be correct.
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GRO is the General Registry Office Index it is free but you do have to register. It gives the mother's maiden name prior to 1910
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Fisherman, Info only,
Having followed your grandfather Thomas Hilton born 25.4.1892. Can confirm his parents John & Susannah were at 74, Petticoat Lane on the 1891 & at 213 Manchester Road, Ince in 1901 census, John the father with his new wife Mary. Thomas went on to marry as you will know Ann Gore in 1914 and had 5 children between 1915-1927. He appears with Ann in 1939 war register with 4 of his children, the son who died being John 1924-24.
On a precautionary note do not follow the ancestral trees on Ancestry as they are incorrect.
With regard to Elizabeth Hilton 1871 who married James Johnson, by 1911 they had had 6 children, 2 died 4 living.
James and Elizabeth appear together in 1921 census in Wigan, one son being John.
JOHNSON, JAMES HILTON
GRO Reference: 1908 S Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 85
In 1939 war register Elizabeth is with her son James and his wife (Ann Cockburn) married 1933 Wigan.
Elizabeth died aged 79 as below.
Death Edited as per post from tall al below
James her husband died between 1921-39. Possible death below
Deaths Sep 1928
Johnson James age 57 Wigan 8c 97
John
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Hi,
The latest information from john looks very promising indeed.
Two things arising - Elizabeth's death looks to me like June Qtr 1941 age 69 in the Biggleswade District Vol 3b Page 836 (not Bedford as suggested age 79 in 1942) and a date of birth as 8 November 1871 which fits the bill.
James (husband) could have died Sept Qtr 1928 age 57 Wigan District Vol 8c Page 97 - Lancs BMD show this to be in Orrel sub district.
Alan
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johnhood, the 1881 census shows two Elizabeth Hiltons, one b1871 in Ince, the other b1872 in Pemberton. Ancestry gives clues to help find your ancestors in other situations, ie Suggested Marriages. Both of these Elizabeths are given as marrying the same person, James Johnson.
I have a copy of the record from St Peter marriage register for the Elizabeth born in Ince and she married William James Wright on 29th Feb 1896.
amondg Thank you for explaining what the GRO index is.
the fisherman
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"I do have the marriage certificate of his parents, John Hilton and Susannah Unsworth. Married 4th Nov 1867 at St. Patrick's, Wigan."
Can you list all the information on the certificate please.....everything please.
How have you identified them to be the parents of your grandfather Thomas HILTON, died 1972?
My addition -
FreeBDM death Ince Vol 10c page 1106
HILTON Thomas born 25 Apr 1892 died JunQ 1972
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Hi
It is very confusing when you have the same names cropping up but in order to seek clarity look at the 1891 censuses and marriage certificates in 1894 and 1896.
Firstly the 1891 census shows Elizabeth (daughter of John and Susannah) is living with her parents at 74 Petticoat Lane, and whilst the 1891 census for Elizabeth (daughter of John and Hannah) is very hard to read - she is living at 94 Platt Lane.
The 1894 marriage of Elizabeth to James Johnson (a Collier) on 3 February shows her age 22 - Father John Hilton a Collier, her address at the time showing as Whelley.
The 1896 marriage on 29 February shows that Elizabeth age 24 as living at 94 Platt Lane - She married William James Wright (a Mill Worker) so it is logical to say that her parents were John and Hannah and not the daughter of John and Susannah.
Also, the birth date of John and Susannah's Elizabeth (mother's maiden name Unsworth)) was Dec Otr 1871 and this does not match up with the Elizabeth that married William Wright.
There are 10 or more Elizabeth Hilton marriages in and around the Wigan area (see Lancs BMD) between 1890 and 1900 and there is no guarantee that we have found the right one yet but to my mind the marriage to James Johnson looks very promising.
You may need to buy some birth and marriage certificates to rule out other possibilities.
Alan
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From reply #19 -
"1891 census ref 3058 71A 41 (on Findmy past transcribed as surname Willton) and living at 94 Platt Lane Hindley as per marriage address of Elizabeth."
Can you please describe the family you see at 94 Platt Lane....names....ages....birthplaces please.
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Hi,
A further thought about the 1881 censuses referred to - these show there are 3 Elizabeth Hiltons in the immediate area -
My thoughts are as follows -
At Hindley - daughter of John and Hannah - she married William Wright 1896 at St Peters Church Hindley
At Ince - daughter of John and Susannah - married James Johnson 1894 at St Georges Church Wigan - both bride and groom address shown as Whelley (about 1 mile from Ince) so it looks like she had left home, and they were living together pre marriage at that time.
At Pemberton - daughter of John and Elizabeth - this one is still single in 1901 age 28 and still at home with her parents.
Ancestry always makes various "suggestions" for them all but when you follow them through some are right but also many of their suggestions are wrong.
Alan
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Hi,
It might be more readable on "Find My Past" but on Ancestry it is very faint, and I don't have a Find My Past subscription.
However, you can just about read the address and Elizabeths age 19 - Lancashire Hindley, All, District 10, Page 42 of 49.
Have a look and see if you can decipher it.
Alan
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Fisherman, firstly I appreciate all your comments you have posted, and can see why you need to be fully convinced of what I and other's have posted in reply.
The "2" 1891 census record's do record both Elizabeth's at separate addresses with their respective parents.
You know "your" Elizabeth born 1871 was born in "Ince" the daughter of John and Susannah.
The "2" Elizabeth's by 1901 census are both married, and appear with respective husbands.
1. Elizabeth Wright born "Hindley"
2. Elizabeth Johnson born "Ince"
by 1911 census
1 Elizabeth Wright is with 3 children but no William James Wright
2 Elizabeth Johnson is with James and 4 children.
I do not feel I can add any more "ideas" to your post and wish you well in your research,
John
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johnhood, Tall Al, wivenhoe, It will take me a couple of days to get my head round all that information and try to find someone who has access to Find My Past.
wivenhoe, here is the information from the marriage certificate.
Marriage at St. Patricks Church in the district of Wigan on 4th November 1867.
John Hilton aged 22 years, bachelor, coal miner, Petticoat Lane, Ince in Makerfield. Father John Hilton, coal miner.
Susanna Unsworth aged 21 years, spinster, cotton factory worker, Petticoat Lane Ince in Makerfield. Father William Unsworth, coal miner.
In the presence of, the mark of Rueben Townall (the first letter of the surname looks like a "T")
In the presence of, the mark of Mary Unsworth.
James Jolley Registrar.
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If you do not already have it, I think you need to see this marriage certificate.
FreeBDM DecQ 1914
GORE Ann marr HILTON Thomas Wigan Vol 8c page 152
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Hi,
Just to reinforce the situation -
1901 census at 16 Lord Street. Hindley are -
Wm Jas Wright age 29 Mill Worker born Wigan
Elizabeth Wright wife age 29 born Hindley
Hannah Wright daughter age 1 born Hindley (presumably named after Elizabeth's mother Hannah)
AND at Stank Lane Whiston -
James Johnson age 30 Coal Miner born Ince
Elizabeth Johnson wife age 29 born Ince
Alice Johnson daughter age 6 born Ince
William Johnson son age 1 born Whiston
Alan
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wivenhoe, I must be a right idiot because all I can see when I go to the vol and page numbers you have quoted is a whole sheet of different marriages. There is an entry under "Names of Persons Married" for Hilton Thomas and Gore and under District it says Wigan and then the same vol and page numbers that you have quoted, but I can't find a way to view a marriage certificate. How do I get to see it please.???
Tall Al Thanks I will go and check that information.
the fisherman
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The page you are seeing at FreeBDM is an index of marriages, as recorded by the government, for each quarter of the year.
You need to buy an image of the marriage record, which will be posted to you.
At this site -
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
You create an account for yourself. Then you log in, and identify the event....marriage....and reference details.....names .........place...year...quarter.....
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Hi,
As an option to using the GRO you can order the certificate from Lancs BMD - lancashirebmd.org.uk
Their reference is ROW/134/106.
I think I am right in saying it isn't available to view on-line because it is a register office rather than a church wedding,
Alan
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It looks like my original thoughts that Elizabeth Hilton married William James Wright have been well and truly shot down. johnhood and Tall Al have said all along that it was James Johnson she married and from what I have discovered they have been proved correct. On Ancestry there is a Public Member Tree called "Fillingham Family Tree" and pretty much all the same information I have been given here is on there. The icing on the cake though to finally convince me is the fact that I have now got a Death Certificate for Elizabeth. My cousin has been looking through a box of old photo's and post cards that belonged to my grandfather and she found it there. Tall Al was spot on when he said she could have died in 1941 in the Biggleswade district. She died 9th May 1941 at Three Counties Emergency Hospital in Stotfold. Her daughter-in-law Ann Johnson was present at her death. It also shows the address that Ann lived in, in Arlesey, but I don't know if I am allowed to give that information on this site. All I have to do now is find out which son married Ann and I can progress my tree some more. Any Takers?? ;D
Thanks everyone
the fisherman
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Hi,
You will find this has already been answered by John in his reply on 27 October -
"In 1939 war register Elizabeth is with her son James and his wife (Ann Cockburn) married 1933 Wigan"
Alan
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the fisherman, I am so pleased for you. Onwards and upwards as they say.
John
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Tall Al, I remember reading that now that you have pointed it out, but there was that much information coming at the time it just slipped my mind. Thank you
johnhood, Thank you.
I have learned a lot about how to go about doing family history through this post, which sites to visit for information and records etc. I just hope I can put all that information to good use.
Thanks to everyone who posted
the fisherman