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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northamptonshire => Topic started by: djw on Friday 21 October 22 09:20 BST (UK)
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I would be grateful for any advice or pointers on pre 1837 research. I have been successful in tracing my family back through BMD, census and local newspapers but I am now trying to get my head round parish registers. It all seems a bit like guesswork and I’m unsure how you can verify you’ve found the right person in PRs.
My eldest relative I have located is a Joseph Ward who consistently gives his birth place as Brixworth in the census returns. His date of birth based on census returns suggest 1793. I also know that he is married to Ann who is born around 1799 in Overstone. I know that their the eldest child shown on the census is also Joseph Ward and his birthdate would be around 1823 and that he was born in Ravensthorpe.
A search of the PR indexes show a Joseph Ward baptised at Brixworth on 30/6/1793 to parents Thomas and Elizabeth. There are four other Joseph Wards baptised in 1794 that are in other Northants parishes - am I correct to assume that the one in Brixworth is my man?
I know that Joseph’s eldest son is born around 1823 in Ravensthoroe so his marriage is likely to be before this. There is a marriage of a Joseph to Ann at Ravensthorpe in 1820. Is it right to assume this is him based on the date and the fact his eldest son is born in that parish? The record states that the groom is Of this Parish - would it show that if he was originally from Brixworth or could it just reflect that he was now a permanent resident of Ravensthorpe?
The only information I have on his parents are the name Thomas and Elizabeth. There is no marriage at Brixworth for them and whilst there are other Wards baptised in Brixworth, none of them were to Parents called Thomas and Elizabeth. There are various marriages of a Thomas Ward to an Elizabeth within the county but I can see no way of finding out which one (if any) is the right one.
I’ve not used the parish records before so would be grateful for any advice on whether I’m going about it correctly or if there are other factors/information I should consider.
Thanks
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Parishes mentioned on a marriage (or "of this parish") refers to the place of abode at the time of the marriage.
I.E. the parish where the banns will be called.
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Thanks - that’s useful to know and keeps the Ravensthorpe marriage theory alive.
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I posted this on the one of the main threads before I discovered this Northants thread. Some local knowledge might help….
I would be grateful for any advice or pointers on pre 1837 research. I have been successful in tracing my family back through BMD, census and local newspapers but I am now trying to get my head round parish registers. It all seems a bit like guesswork and I’m unsure how you can verify you’ve found the right person in PRs.
My eldest relative I have located is a Joseph Ward who consistently gives his birth place as Brixworth in the census returns. His date of birth based on census returns suggest 1793. I also know that he is married to Ann who is born around 1799 in Overstone. I know that their the eldest child shown on the census is also Joseph Ward and his birthdate would be around 1823 and that he was born in Ravensthorpe.
A search of the PR indexes show a Joseph Ward baptised at Brixworth on 30/6/1793 to parents Thomas and Elizabeth. There are four other Joseph Wards baptised in 1794 that are in other Northants parishes - am I correct to assume that the one in Brixworth is my man?
I know that Joseph’s eldest son is born around 1823 in Ravensthoroe so his marriage is likely to be before this. There is a marriage of a Joseph to Ann at Ravensthorpe in 1820. Is it right to assume this is him based on the date and the fact his eldest son is born in that parish?
The only information I have on his parents are the name Thomas and Elizabeth. There is no marriage at Brixworth for them and whilst there are other Wards baptised in Brixworth, none of them were to Parents called Thomas and Elizabeth. There are various marriages of a Thomas Ward to an Elizabeth within the county but I can see no way of finding out which one (if any) is the right one.
I’ve not used the parish records before so would be grateful for any advice on whether I’m going about it correctly or if there are other factors/information I should consider.
Thanks
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When Joseph Ward married Ann Woodford 17 Oct 1820 Ravensthorpe, Northamptonshire,
both signed, witnesses John Hollowell & what looks like Mary Ward.
If Mary & Joseph are related that might prove a link?
Colin
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Although I can see Joseph born about 1823 on census returns, I cannot find a baptism for him at Ravensthorpe or elsewhere in the County, even though they are on Ancestry.
I do note in 1851 Joseph Ward senior 57 wife Ann Ward 52 and Susanna Ward 16 born Kingsthorpe, Northamptonshire
Susannah Ward
Mother Ann Ward
Father Joseph Ward
Birth Abt 1835
Baptism 22 Feb 1835 Kingsthorpe
Her baptism states her father was a Carpenter, abode Kinsthorpe.
Colin
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This might help.
1841 - Kingsthorpe
Joseph Ward 45
Ann Ward 40
Joseph Ward 16
Emma Ward 8
Susannah Ward 6
Colin
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There is a THOMAS Ward buried 21 Jun 1819 Ravensthorpe age 60
+ a MARY Ward married Charles BUSWELL there 26 Mar 1822
Both on FreeREG
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Hi Colin - thanks for your interest.
Yes, that's the right family in the census records.
I had seen the witness of Mary at the wedding in Ravensthorpe but not sure yet how I can use that information - I assume she must be a sibling. Would you agree that the marriage in Ravensthorpe is likely to me my man?
I haven't been able to find a baptism for Joseph around 1822 or his sister Emma around 1832 but there is one for the younger sister Susannah on 22/2/35. I would assume that if the younger child was baptised then you would expect the older children to be baptised as well. Maybe they moved out of the county for a while?
I hadn't found the Thomas Ward burial or the subsequent marriage of a Mary Ward to Buswell. The index i'm looking at shows Mary Ward as a spinster rather than a widow.
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What I posted is on FreeREG;
www.freereg.org.uk
Trish :)
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Sorry - Thanks to you too Trish
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I tried to find Charles/Mary Buswell without anything conclusive being found.
Yes I knew she was a spinster but was hoping on Census her pob/dob would make her the sister of Joseph.
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If Joseph was born 1793 Brixworth, he seems to be the only one around that time. Another possible burial for his father, sadly no details.
Thomas Ward Burial 24 Aug 1803 Brixworth
1861 Kingsthorpe
Joseph Ward 67 Head
Ann Ward 62 Wife
By 1871 Ann 72 is a widow living with her daughter Susanna & husband Thomas Jeffs.
WARD, JOSEPH 73
GRO Reference: 1866 S Quarter in NORTHAMPTON UNION Volume 03B Page 44
Colin
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Yes - That's definitely her in the census records. I couldn't find any other children born to Thomas and Eliz in Brixworth around that time either.
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Hi,
When Joseph Ward = Ann Woodford 17.10.1820 at Ravensthorpe a witness is Mary Ward.
Have you considered that this may be some relation.
There is a bpt 18.12.1699 Brixworth
John & Mary twins of Thomas & Elizabeth ward
Brixworth & Ravensthorpe are only six miles apart, have you considered that Thomas Ward may have originated from Ravensthorpe.
There is a marriage Northampton, St Sepulchre
Parish Registers
1566-1723
14.6.1696
Thomas ward of Brixworth = Elizabeth Lawndon of P ?
If you have access to Ancestry it is Third item down on left hand side of page
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/9198/images/100430833_00135?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=UDG1&_phstart=successSource&pId=1596888
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Thanks I'll look into that. To be honest i'm still not certain that the marriage of Joseph Ward to Ann Woodford is the correct marriage. Later on when we reach the period covered by census, Ann consistently gives her place of birth as Overstone and a birth year of 1799. I can only find records of two Ann Woodfords baptised in Northamptonshire in the right period. They are both baptised in the same parish that their parents were married in, which suggests to me that they were probably born in that parish, and neither is near Overstone.
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To be honest i'm still not certain that the marriage of Joseph Ward to Ann Woodford is the correct marriage. Later on when we reach the period covered by census, Ann consistently gives her place of birth as Overstone and a birth year of 1799. I can only find records of two Ann Woodfords baptised in Northamptonshire in the right period. They are both baptised in the same parish that their parents were married in, which suggests to me that they were probably born in that parish, and neither is near Overstone.
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Joseph WARD, born ~ 1793 Brixworth Northamptonshire is your direct ancestor.
Joseph WARD has children with Ann, born ~ 1799 Overstone, Northamptonshire.
Through which of their sons/daughters are you descended?
Can you give marriage, children details for this close ancestor?
What other children, additional to those recorded in census records, 1841+, have you identified as children of Joseph WARD and Ann?
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Hi All.
There is a baptism for an Ann Woodford on the 28 05 1798 at Kilsby which is very close to Ravensthorpe, parents John and Elizabeth. Might be worth looking at. Sandy
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Charles Buswell (of Clipston) and Mary Ward married by license in 1822 noted on Anc* Ravensthorpe
Parish Registers 1813-1838 on page 16. Sandy
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There does not seem to be a burial for Joseph or Ann in Kingsthorpe C of E or in the Local Cemetery in Northampton. Northampton Registration District covers all these areas. https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/northampton.html
There are 2 trees on Anc* and both have Joseph marrying Ann Smith at Boughton which is close to Brixworth.
Therefore I think it will be hard to prove who is the correct Ann at marriage of Joseph born in 1793 i.m.o.
Sandy
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When Joseph Ward married Ann Smith in Broughton 1831, no marital status recorded, Joseph signed but it does not match earlier marriages to Ann.
The tree on Ancestry for Ann Smith has Susanna as their only daughter but there is this baptism below.
Emma Ward baptism 13 Apr 1827 Boughton Joseph Ward and Ann Ward
Joseph is a Butcher, Susanna’s father was a Carpenter. Then just to confuse the issue further we have this.
Amy Warde Baptism 6 Nov 1831 Boughton, Northamptonshire, Mother Ann Warde, Joseph Warde, Baker
As far as I can see these are the only three baptisms for a Joseph and Ann in the County 1825 +/- 10 years, on Ancetry
Colin
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His marriage to Ann Gibbs in Rugby 1849 names his father as Joseph Carpenter
Joseph Ward Age in 1911: 87 (1824) 28 Cowper St Northampton
Birth Place: Ravensthorpe, Northamptonshire
Widowed, Late Bricklayer
In 1901 there a number of Ward’s in Cowper St Northampton, including Joseph and his wife Ann,
All the males were Bricklayers.
This is the family in 1861 Northampton St Andrew
Joseph Ward 38 Head
Ann Ward 30 Wife Rugby, Warwickshire.
James Ward 12 Son
Ann Ward 9 Daughter
Emma Ward 5 Daughter
Rose Ellen Ward 2 Daughter
Jose Ward 1 Son
Colin
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Thanks for your input as well Sandy.
Yes, I had the Kilsby Ann as the most likely one but couldn’t understand why in all the census she gave her place of birth as Overstone.
I haven’t seen these trees on Ancestry, I’ll try and work out how they came to the conclusion that it was Ann Smith in Boughton. Maybe I’m missing something, as I say I’ve got very little experience with PR’s and it feels like a minefield at the moment!
Joseph died on 23/7/1866 in Kingsthorpe (possibly 202 High Street, Kingsthorpe, which was his address in the 1861 census).
Ann died on 2/4/1876 also in Kingsthorpe (in the 1871 census she is living with her daughter in Welford Road).
I haven’t tried to locate their graves yet but I would like to. I haven’t any experience of locating graves in Northampton - I don’t even know where all the cemeteries are yet. Do you have any advice on where they might have been buried if they weren’t buried in Kingsthorpe?
My experience of locating graves has all been in east northants and I know it’s not easy especially with unmarked graves. Are there any online records for Northampton? Are the original records held centrally or are they in different places?
Thanks again to everyone for the advice
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Hi djw.
As ColC mentions above the son Joseph (1823) and Ann was at 28, Cowper Street in 1901.
There is burial below for Ann, sadly no remaining headstone.
Billing Road Cemetery
Ann Ward aged 76 years of 28, Cowper Street, died 6th August 1907 and was buried on 9th August in Sec 40-3-2 grave A2 1880.
Most of this area was bombed in WW2.
Sandy
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That then lead me to Joseph's death in the same grave in the same Cemetery.
Billing Road Cemetery
Joseph Ward aged 89 years of 28, Cowper Street, died 14th November 1912 and was buried on 19th November in Sec 40-3-2 grave A2 1880.
Sandy
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Thanks Sandy - that’s great to know where they are buried. Can I access these records or is it a private source? Have you experience of locating graves with the local cemetery office?
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Hi again. A private source of mine although you can always ask on the web link as I no long have contact with them, my choice. I have experience with a few Northamptonshire Cemetery Offices. If you wish for anymore that you are not able to get the information for I can always have a look.
Best of luck.
https://www.northampton.gov.uk/info/406/our-town/16/a-guide-to-cemeteries
Sandy
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Joseph WARD, married Ann GIBBS 1849, is your direct ancestor?
Researching the origins of your Joseph WARD, you are considering him to be 16 year old in this family, Census 1841, here at reply #3?
1841 - Kingsthorpe
Joseph Ward 45
Ann Ward 40
Joseph Ward 16
Emma Ward 8
Susannah Ward 6
Ancestry Warwickshire Church of England marriages 1754-1910
Parish Church Rugby 16 May 1849
WARD Joseph full age bachelor bricklayer residence Rugby
Father: Joseph WARD carpenter
GIBBS Ann minor spinster
Father: * GIBBS labourer
Witnesses: * BARNETT/BARRETT (?) Elizabeth GIBBS all parties sign
and Susanna WARD, 6 years old at the 1841 Census is this marriage?
Ancestry Northamptonshire Church of England marriages 1754-1912
Parish Church Kingsthorpe 26 Jan 1860
JEFFS Thomas 20y bachelor shoe-maker residence Kingsthorpe
Father: Joseph JEFFS labourer
WARD Susanna 25y spinster residence Kingsthorpe (X)
Father: Joseph WARD carpenter
Witnesses: John WHITSEY Mary BILLING (X)
Joseph WARD, at marriage 1849, signs the register.
Susanna WARD, at marriage 1860, does not sign.
If Joseph WARD is literate, you might expect to see his younger siblings to also be literate?
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There is also a topic on the same question here.
topics merged
Sandy
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Joseph & Ann ward had three children that I am aware of Joseph Ward born approx 1823, Emma Ward born approx 1832 and Susannah Ward born approx 1834 and baptised on 22/2/1835 (I have only been able to find a batism for the youngest child. Emma I have very little on other than an entry in the 1841 census. Susannah married in 1860 to a Thomas Jeffs and they have children Joseph, Alfred, William and Ernest.
My line of descent is through Joseph, and he married Ann Gibbs on 10/4/1849 in Rugby and they went on to have children, James 1849, Ann 1852, Emma in 1856, Rose Ellen in 1858, Joe in 1859, Alfred 1863, Minnie in 1865, and Kate in 1866. I think it likely that there was also a Betsy born in 1854 but died in 1855 but I am yet to confirm this.
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Joseph & Ann ward had three children that I am aware of Joseph Ward born approx 1823, Emma Ward born approx 1832 and Susannah Ward born approx 1834 and baptised on 22/2/1835 (I have only been able to find a batism for the youngest child. Emma I have very little on other than an entry in the 1841 census. Susannah married in 1860 to a Thomas Jeffs and they have children Joseph, Alfred, William and Ernest.
My line of descent is through Joseph, and he married Ann Gibbs on 10/4/1849 in Rugby and they went on to have children, James 1849, Ann 1852, Emma in 1856, Rose Ellen in 1858, Joe in 1859, Alfred 1863, Minnie in 1865, and Kate in 1866. I think it likely that there was also a Betsy born in 1854 but died in 1855 but I am yet to confirm this. Emma is shown as born in Rugby but there is no record of a baptism in Rugby and Rose Ellen is shown as born in Northampton so I assume they moved to back to Northampton around 1857.
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Hi again.
I have looked through the Monumental Inscriptions for Kingsthorpe and can't see any surviving stones for Ward (if there had been any).
Also the 1861 Census saying that Joseph and Ann lived at 202 High Street is not entirely true as there is no such number. On the front sheet of Enu District 4, although the Enumerator has it noted as such, he has started at the beginning of the village noting the household from 1 starting at Cock Lane, Duck Lane, Hopes Place, Church End, Knights Lane, and then the High Street.
Sandy
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Hi Sandy, thanks for taking the time to check the memorial inscriptions, it’s a shame it didn’t produce anything although I’m not surprised. Most of the relatives graves that I’ve tracked down have been in unmarked graves until we reach the latter half of the 20th century.
That’s interesting to learn there is no 202 High Street. I haven’t got round to trying to track down all of the addresses in the census records yet. You have certainly saved me some trouble in trying to locate an address that doesn’t exist. It’s not a case of it being demolished in the intervening years - just that the enumerator didn’t record the correct house numbers?
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That’s interesting to learn there is no 202 High Street. I haven’t got round to trying to track down all of the addresses in the census records yet. You have certainly saved me some trouble in trying to locate an address that doesn’t exist. It’s not a case of it being demolished in the intervening years - just that the enumerator didn’t record the correct house numbers?
It's probably somebody looking at the Schedule Number, and thinking it was a house number?
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Hi djw sorry not to have replied earlier. I do not always get an e-mail to say there is a reply to a topic I am on.
The census in 1861 clearly stated Sch 240. Joseph noted as living at 202 High Street as attached.
Sandy .
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djw have you had any luck with the Cemetery Office as folk say they are slow in responding.
Sandy
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Hi djw thank you for your P.M.
The answer you got is normal nowadays. :)
I do have maps of the cemetery so could send you the area you were asking for in an e-mail if you would like.
Sandy
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Thanks Sandy - that would be great I’ll pm you my email address.
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Okay it will take a while as I will have to blank out the names of all the other people so I don't break any copyright. I will send as soon as able. Sandy
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Hi Dave.
I have now sent you some more information by e-mail.
Maybe of interest to others you can view on Micro-Film all the Northampton Cemeteries
holdings listed on the web site here.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01rwp/
Sandy