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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: djocam on Tuesday 11 October 22 23:52 BST (UK)
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August Kraulodat & Anna Palogad married in this church on the 24th Jan 1875 according to their GRO marriage cert.
Both signed with an x, residence for both was 2 Homley St, Liverpool.
I read with interest another query from 2013 where someone else received some awesome help from another member about their family that the church register had and the marriage document didn't have.
I am hoping that there is a possibility that I might be able to find out more information from the church register about this couple. Where they came from etc. I note on the marriage certificate their parents names and occupations but we have literally nothing else to go on with where they actually came from.
August & Anna had a daughter (named Anna) sometime in 1876 (no birth registration has ever been found for her) and by July 13th 1876 they had set sail for New Zealand onboard the Orari where they settled and changed their name to Crowder.
Naturalisation for August "Crowder" in 1896 had no clues about their homeland other than to say they were Polish. Death certs in NZ have variations of their surnames and no place listed for their birth other than Poland.
The nearest DNA matches to the family (Anna's side) are by the name Pallokat and we think that this line are from a brother of Anna which emigrated to New York. This family has German origins.
If there is anyone out there who is able to look in the church register and tell me more that would be wonderful. It's also likely there may be a baptism for their daughter Anna also.
I am unable to visit in person as I'm in NZ.
Thank you
Jo
:)
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Marriage certs/register entries do not have any details of the couples origins
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I assume this is the thread you mentioned.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=430735
Maybe if you post a reply to that thread asking for a lookup of the possible baptism, "liverpool church" will receive notification of your post (if she still has the same email address). The thread does have her name - I see googling her name comes up with an address in Liverpool - you could try contacting her. She is the archivist of the German Church Liverpool. Unfortunately she only made 2 posts, so you probably can't contact her through the private message system.
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The Anglo-German Family History Society may be able to advise you - https://www.agfhs.com
They also now have a Facebook page.
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The "archivar"'s phone number is at the bottom of this document:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTS7oxrZX5FG7fu5d09fQIOW8U_75746J8MlutEylVoMAI34UIjeyr5skjq3FLwZL8jGPFeTCJPNhNJ/pub
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Hi
Suggestion on their entry on Find a Grave that the couple come from Poland.
Her maiden name Poloykart
possible baptism for August Kraulodat
August Krauledat
Gender: Männlich (Male)
Event Type: Taufe (Baptism)
Birth Date: 25. Jun 1859 (25 Jun 1859)
Baptism Date: 26. Jun 1859 (26 Jun 1859)
Baptism Place: Mehlkehmen, Stallupönen, Ostpreussen, Deutschland (Germany)
Father:
Christian Krauledat
Mother:
Eva Krauledat
Legitimacy: Ehelich
Page number: 129;130
Author: Evangelische Kirche Mehlkehmen (Kr. Stallupönen)
City or District: Mehlkehmen
It is now Kallinino which is just in Russia -that detached bit near Kallingrad.
As you know Augus Wilhelm Kraulodat was born 1852 according to his gravestone so it is a bit out.
Otherwise there is this in Danzig
Danzig-Westpr, Neu Paleschken, Koscierzyna u Nowe Polaszki, , Deutschland
Birth Date
30 Jan 1853
Father's Name
August Carlotzartowicz
Mother's Name Auguste
Mother's Alias Baska
There is also a family tree on Ancestry gives his parents as August Kraulodat and Ann Myers.
Anna's father is John.
Anna Plokarz Possen 14.1.1851 d of Joannes and Catharina Uzarek could be her
Ciderdrinker
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I assume this is the thread you mentioned.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=430735
Maybe if you post a reply to that thread asking for a lookup of the possible baptism, "liverpool church" will receive notification of your post (if she still has the same email address). The thread does have her name - I see googling her name comes up with an address in Liverpool - you could try contacting her. She is the archivist of the German Church Liverpool. Unfortunately she only made 2 posts, so you probably can't contact her through the private message system.
Thank you yes this is the thread, I've messaged her so I've got my fingers crossed for a similar outcome. :)
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Hi
Suggestion on their entry on Find a Grave that the couple come from Poland.
Her maiden name Poloykart
possible baptism for August Kraulodat
August Krauledat
Gender: Männlich (Male)
Event Type: Taufe (Baptism)
Birth Date: 25. Jun 1859 (25 Jun 1859)
Baptism Date: 26. Jun 1859 (26 Jun 1859)
Baptism Place: Mehlkehmen, Stallupönen, Ostpreussen, Deutschland (Germany)
Father:
Christian Krauledat
Mother:
Eva Krauledat
Legitimacy: Ehelich
Page number: 129;130
Author: Evangelische Kirche Mehlkehmen (Kr. Stallupönen)
City or District: Mehlkehmen
It is now Kallinino which is just in Russia -that detached bit near Kallingrad.
As you know Augus Wilhelm Kraulodat was born 1852 according to his gravestone so it is a bit out.
Otherwise there is this in Danzig
Danzig-Westpr, Neu Paleschken, Koscierzyna u Nowe Polaszki, , Deutschland
Birth Date
30 Jan 1853
Father's Name
August Carlotzartowicz
Mother's Name Auguste
Mother's Alias Baska
There is also a family tree on Ancestry gives his parents as August Kraulodat and Ann Myers.
Anna's father is John.
Anna Plokarz Possen 14.1.1851 d of Joannes and Catharina Uzarek could be her
Ciderdrinker
Thank you, August's death cert has the same name as his marriage cert so I'm fairly sure that August Kraulodat & Annie Myers are his parents. It's Annie's name that I've seen spelt numerous ways. On her death cert it names her father as John but it's either Hans or Hoins on the marriage cert.
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The Anglo-German Family History Society may be able to advise you - https://www.agfhs.com
They also now have a Facebook page.
Thank you I'll give them a go!
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The "archivar"'s phone number is at the bottom of this document:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTS7oxrZX5FG7fu5d09fQIOW8U_75746J8MlutEylVoMAI34UIjeyr5skjq3FLwZL8jGPFeTCJPNhNJ/pub
Thank you
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I see that you now have the information you require, but others may like to know that there were a couple of churches catering for Germanic people who came to live in Liverpool. If ancestors were Catholics, then they would attend normal Catholic churches in the UK, but the usual Germanic religion was Ev. Lutheran who kept better records than the Scots, and definitely better than most English church records.
I discovered the German village where my ancestor came from by finding my Yorkshire grandmother's Ev. Lutheran church baptism, which stated she'd been named after her paternal grandmother, who still lived in a specific German village. Unlike the English Church marriage record of her parents, the Lutheran record gave full names of all grandparents, both partners' full names plus full names and places of witnesses and occupations of everyone.
I see there were two churches in Liverpool catering for non-English parishioners. One being a German Lutheran Church in Mill Street, with christening records for 1830-1845
.... and the other was a Brunswick/Braunschweig church in Moss Street, (Brunswick/Braunschweig is an area in Germany). with christening records for the period; C 1814-1836-7.
https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/media/898326/L.pdf
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I see that you now have the information you require, but others may like to know that there were a couple of churches catering for Germanic people who came to live in Liverpool. If ancestors were Catholics, then they would attend normal Catholic churches in the UK, but the usual Germanic religion was Ev. Lutheran who kept better records than the Scots, and definitely better than most English church records.
I discovered the German village where my ancestor came from by finding my Yorkshire grandmother's Ev. Lutheran church baptism, which stated she'd been named after her paternal grandmother, who still lived in a specific German village. Unlike the English Church marriage record of her parents, the Lutheran record gave full names of all grandparents, both partners' full names plus full names and places of witnesses and occupations of everyone.
I see there were two churches in Liverpool catering for non-English parishioners. One being a German Lutheran Church in Mill Street, with christening records for 1830-1845
.... and the other was a Brunswick/Braunschweig church in Moss Street, (Brunswick/Braunschweig is an area in Germany). with christening records for the period; C 1814-1836-7.
https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/media/898326/L.pdf
Thanks for that information! I'm hoping to get some answers to this mystery :)
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Update: For a small donation to the German Church in Liverpool IIlona Ziessler is going to search the registers for me.
I emailed the church and they responded back promptly which I've over the moon about.
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That's great, please let us know if you receive any further information. I'm interested in the child Anna, definitely on the ship with them, but not born on the voyage (as per newspaper report of the arrival of the Orari). Hoping you find a baptism. :)
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That's great, please let us know if you receive any further information. I'm interested in the child Anna, definitely on the ship with them, but not born on the voyage (as per newspaper report of the arrival of the Orari). Hoping you find a baptism. :)
Sure will, here in NZ she was known as Annie Jessie Crowder who in 1896 married William Archibald TATE. They had 9 children.
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Update: For a small donation to the German Church in Liverpool IIlona Ziessler is going to search the registers for me.
I emailed the church and they responded back promptly which I've over the moon about.
I'm excited for you. I did more or less the same thing when I discovered that the Ev. Lutheran church in England had given the name of the village of my German roots.
Surfing the web gave me the nearest Lutheran church in what is now Germany. I wrote to the Church enclosing a small monetary gift. In my letter I stated the names of the children of my English gt.grandmother and German gt. grandfather.
It wasn't long before I received information from the Ev. Lutheran church that apparently only opened once a week. They listed the full names and dates of birth/baptisms of my Gt.grandfather and his eleven siblings !! With the letter was enclosed a beautiful set of printed pictures of the church and the village (Steinlah).
the list of baptisms also included names of his mother's siblings. I knew that an "Uncle Conrad" had brought my gt. grandfather to England but there wasn't a "Conrad" in the list - I wrote back and asked if a "Conrad" had been squeezed in between a couple of other family baptisms. The church wrote back and agreed that they'd missed off details of a "Conrad". In those days a vicar had to send a list of boys names who had their 20th birthday that year to a specified area office. Those boys would then be drafted into the German navy and Conrad had done a runner and joined a travelling group of musicians. Being part of a group of travelling musicians was how my gt. grandfather came to be in England where he met my gt. grandmother.
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Update: For a small donation to the German Church in Liverpool IIlona Ziessler is going to search the registers for me.
I emailed the church and they responded back promptly which I've over the moon about.
I'm excited for you. I did more or less the same thing when I discovered that the Ev. Lutheran church in England had given the name of the village of my German roots.
Surfing the web gave me the nearest Lutheran church in what is now Germany. I wrote to the Church enclosing a small monetary gift. In my letter I stated the names of the children of my English gt.grandmother and German gt. grandfather.
It wasn't long before I received information from the Ev. Lutheran church that apparently only opened once a week. They listed the full names and dates of birth/baptisms of my Gt.grandfather and his eleven siblings !! With the letter was enclosed a beautiful set of printed pictures of the church and the village (Steinlah).
the list of baptisms also included names of his mother's siblings. I knew that an "Uncle Conrad" had brought my gt. grandfather to England but there wasn't a "Conrad" in the list - I wrote back and asked if a "Conrad" had been squeezed in between a couple of other family baptisms. The church wrote back and agreed that they'd missed off details of a "Conrad". In those days a vicar had to send a list of boys names who had their 20th birthday that year to a specified area office. Those boys would then be drafted into the German navy and Conrad had done a runner and joined a travelling group of musicians. Being part of a group of travelling musicians was how my gt. grandfather came to be in England where he met my gt. grandmother.
Thank Rena, I'm heartened by your story too. From what they have said so far my GG Grandparents were married by the first pastor of the German Church in Liverpool, David Hirsch. The two main occupations of the congregation at that time were seamen and sugar bakers, the latter was my GG Grandfathers occupation on the cert. I have high hopes :)
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So many links already provided, and you have made contact for a search, which is great.
I googled > (archivist of the German Church Liverpool) < and several links show there that might prove useful.
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I often use a "Surname Distribution Map" when I need to determine the origins of a surname and I have now tried more than one distribution map and none recognise the surname "Palogad". Possibly one or more of the vowels and/or the consonants have been mis-transcribed.
https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Surname_Distribution_Maps
http://geogen.stoepel.net/?q=-
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That's great, please let us know if you receive any further information. I'm interested in the child Anna, definitely on the ship with them, but not born on the voyage (as per newspaper report of the arrival of the Orari). Hoping you find a baptism. :)
Hey 🙋♀️ I did find Anna's birth & baptism with the help of the wonderful Ilona, did you still want the information?
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Glad you found the birth and baptism. Yes, I would be interested, let us know. Always nice to get a good result! :D