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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: rob749 on Tuesday 27 September 22 16:25 BST (UK)
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Hi Everyone
I'm a bit confused about the attached pension ledger entry ( sorry the first one is upside down, couldn't correct it, and second one is chopped off on RH side), for my uncle who died in WW1 in 1918. It has some alterations in black ink, which indicates that my grandmother was deceased. What I can't figure out is what date these alterations were made, so that I can ascertain when my grandmother died. I haven't been able to find any death or birth records for her so far. The problem I think will be the name unfortunately - Ann Jones nee Evans from Penboyr, Carmarthenshire, West Wales ! I'm 99% sure I have their marriage certificate though. It's quite a common name in Wales as you can guess.
It couldn't have been 1918, as my mother was on a census form in 1921 which stated " Mother Alive" when she was 3 years old. Unfortunately my grandmother wasn't on that census form and my grandfather was listed as married not widower.
Anyway do you think that is a date next to 'Father' in black ink, or just a ledger entry number ? Any help on this appreciated or any idea how to move forward. Thanks.
P.S. the form can be rotated in a pdf viewer.
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It looks like the alteration was made on Oct. 5 1938.
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Deaths Sep 1938
JONES Ann 66 Carmarthen
Does this look right?
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Thanks Jim1, are you fairly sure it's a date? I'll try again using that, not even sure where she was living at that time, last known address in 1911 Neath/Port Talbot, can't find further forward.
Mother's maiden name Oliver may be transcribed as Olwer.
1938 is also a possibility, thought it might be Newcastle in Emlyn though, but Carmarthen's not far away. On marriage certificate in 1892 age listed as 19 yrs but according to census' records, she would have been 17 yrs, if so birth was in 1874.
An odd thing i noticed on my grandfather's details was on the pension record his name is Richard John Owen Jones, but on census' forms is just John Owen Jones. Finding it a difficult slog to unravel all these details. Thanks for your replies.
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The alterations & additions are all in black pen including the 5/10/38 date.
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Thanks Jim1, are you fairly sure it's a date?
Quite a usual form of making a date in Govt Depts or on forms where there is not much room.
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1938 is also a possibility, thought it might be Newcastle in Emlyn though, but Carmarthen's not far away.
Newcastle Emlyn was in Carmarthen registration district in 1938
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/carmarthen.html
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EVANS, ANNE
Mother's maiden surname: OLIVER
GRO Reference: 1874 D Quarter in NEWCASTLE IN EMLYN Volume 11B Page 19
Possible death? :-\
Sep 1938 Cardiff 11a 305
Jones, Anne
Age 63
Is there an Emrys Gwyn in the family?
1950 electoral register, Penarth Central Ward (Cardiff)
9 Windsor Arcade
Richard Jones
Emrys Gwyn Jones (service voter)
John Thomas
Glenys Megan Thomas
But in 1951 (it is now 9a Windsor Arcade), Richard has gone, and replaced by two Smiths.
Death in 1950
JONES, RICHARD JOHN OWEN
Age at Death (in years): 82
GRO Reference: 1950 M Quarter in CARDIFF Volume 08B Page 286
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Wow Johnw65, you are right on the money, Mum's name was Glenys Megan Thomas, Dad was John Thomas, Emrys Gwyn her brother, and obviously Richard Jones my maternal grandfather they are on the 1921 Census at that address, apart from my father obviously! Not sure why he used Richard, when on the census forms 1921, 1911, and 1901 its just John Owen. Also on every search result I've seen, its always John Owen. Used a different name from the 1930s to avoid something? Very confusing.
I actually lived at that address as a child, and I do remember living there when I was in Junior school, because I remember having an accident with fireworks there, causing a small fire, caused by me I think !
Thats a bit strange, because I was definitely living there up to about age 8 or 9 which would have been 1956-57, but just my parents and I. I don't actually remember my grandfather, which isn't surprising at my age then. As far as I remember 9a was actually next door, so not sure what's going on there.
Also Anne Evans birth and death also looks spot on, the age and detail all adds up according to my documents. Thank you so very much! Been wrestling with this detail for a year or so. Ever so grateful for your time and effort.
I'd tried looking at electoral registers, but could never seem to find the correct one, could you give me a hint as to how you got the information for my future reference. Thanks.
Thanks to everyone ...again. Very grateful.
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Hi
The electoral registers are on ancestry, Glamorganshire, Wales, Electoral Registers, 1832-1978.
But Windsor Arcade, Penarth, only seems to be included from 1949 onwards. What have they done with the earlier ones that included Penarth?
I don't know how 9a has come about, but I can see now the Smiths were at 9a Windsor Road in 1950, which I guess is the same address (but doesn't seem to make total sense!)
Really sorry, I can't find them, or the address in the 1939 Register :(
If that was Mr. Jones address in 1938, I guess that is where he was in 1939!
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Thanks a lot for all that.
I've found the address (no 9a on there in Windsor Rd or Arcade ::) ) in the 1939 Register on Findmypast, John Owen Jones not on there, but my mum and some of her siblings are. I've come across the Windsor Rd bit before maybe it was a clerical error.
Maybe I can look at the electoral registers locally somewhere, as I live near Penarth anyway, would it be the local library, or some kind of archives place. I know there's a Glamorgan Archives in Cardiff, not far from here. What do you think?
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Hi
I've had a look at the Glamorgan archives catalogue.
The first specific ER they mention for Penarth is 1949, which we can see on ancestry.
Cardiff Electoral register. South-East (Adamsdown, Roath, Splott, South wards, and Penarth wards)
So, earlier, Penarth voters were in the Southern Division of Glamorgan.
I'm not sure when that changed! Or why we are struggling to find Penarth in the Glamorgan registers on ancestry.
They have a contact form, perhaps you could try asking them if they have Penarth ERs for the pre 1949 period you are interested in? They may be one of the nice helpful archives!
https://glamarchives.gov.uk/contact/
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Hi Jonw65,
I went to the Glamorgan Archives today and looked at the Electoral Registers for 1949 - 1952. They obviously confirm what you told me. It looks like the 9a Windsor Arcade is a clerical error, as in 1949 they are listed under No 9 with the Smiths next door at No 9a. I have also found that the pre 1949 Registers are in the Cathays Heritage Library in Cardiff, and can be viewed there. This could help me solve where and when my grandmother lived and died hopefully. Grandfather definitely died between 15 Mar 1950 and 20 Nov 1951. So death register details I have look correct.
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Just an update on the above, found all details at the library, which confirmed where and when my grandparents lived, which confirmed everything, thanks for all the info.
Found grandmothers grave in Penarth Cemetery, not far from where I live, address listed as 9 Windsor Arcade on the records, her 24 year old daughter (my aunt ) is also interred in same grave. Grave owned by my grandfather, but he is not there, and no record of him in that cemetery. Really odd. Have to do some more research now.