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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Nottinghamshire => England => Nottinghamshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: vickyparry on Thursday 22 September 22 09:49 BST (UK)
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I am looking for information about my grandfather's sister Edie, I don't have any date of birth or death for her. My grandfather, Ernest Smith was born in Manchester,1917 ? then the family moved to Nottingham later on. All I know about Edie is that she helped many Jewish families settle in the UK during WW2. I would very much like to know more about her and any help would be much appreciated,Thank you.
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Do you know their mothers maiden name?
Colin
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Sadly no, I only met my father when I was 15 and have met with him maybe 3 times after that. At the time the history of the family wasn't important, now I'm older,it is.
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There were 5 Ernest Smith's born in Manchester 1917 +/- 2 years, can you add any other information, such as a birth date, did he have a middle name, was Edie older or younger?
Colin
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From your father’s birth certificate you should be able to identify his mother. Therefore
Have you got Ernest’s marriage certificate? Can you give all the details on that please.
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Edie was younger. I have no documents whatsoever to help.
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Who moved to Nottingham? Ernest and his parents or just Ernest?
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Incase he is still alive, as it is Rootschat policy not to name living people, I have sent a PM regarding name of your father.
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Ernest isn't alive. The whole family moved to Nottingham.
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As far as I can see there was no Edie Smith born in Nottinghamshire 1917-1937, there were a number of Edith's but none of the mothers maiden names matched the mothers noted on the 5 Ernest's registrations 1917 +/- 2 years.
Colin
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I’m assuming that Edie was born around 1920 if she helped Jewish families settle in the UK during WW2. There is this registration in Lancashire.
SMITH, ERNEST HALL
GRO Reference: 1915 D Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 358
Births Dec 1920
Smith Edith F Hall Leigh 8c 496
Edith was the only Smith registered in Leigh 1915 - 1925. There are several other Smith’s mother Hall registered Nottingham after 1920, so maybe they first moved from Manchester to Leigh, then Nottinghamshire?
Colin
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I am looking for information about my grandfather's sister Edie, I don't have any date of birth or death for her.
My grandfather, Ernest Smith was born in Manchester,1917 ?
Ernest isn't alive. The whole family moved to Nottingham.
When & Where did he die?
If the death is after Jun 1969 it should give his dob that might help narrow down his birth registration.
Have you found him on the 1939 Register this will also give his dob?
Have you found him on 1921 census?
For info. as an example there's an Ernest SMITH b1917 Manchester
free info. available shows he's with James & Caroline Smith plus 6 others - using the advanced search it appears that James Smith b1864 West Brom., Caroline b1872 no pob given and I think the other persons are:- James Harold born 1892 Egypt, John William no pob, Bert, George Harris & Winifred born 1913 Manchester - NO Edie/Edith though ???
As mother was born in Spain possible birth entries for Winifred & Ernest
SMITH, WINIFRED mmn PEROUGH
GRO Reference: 1913 D Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 341
SMITH, ERNEST mmn PARROA
GRO Reference: 1917 M Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 262
Looking at the 1911 census it looks as if James Harold born Egypt's middle name is Horatio
1901
Caroline Smith married 25 Gibralter
James 9 Egypt (British Subject)
Caroline 7 Manchester
Annie 4 Litchfield
William 2 Aldershot
Albert 6 mths West Brom
1911
James 46 West Brom
Caroline 38 Spain
James Horiatio 18 Egypt
Mary Caroline 16 Manchester
Ann Maira 14 Litchfield
John William 12 Aldershot
Bertie 10 West Brom
George Harris 4 Manchester
Joseph 5 Manchester
This might be George Harris Smith birth entry
SMITH, GEORGE HARRY mmn PARALO
GRO Reference: 1903 D Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 227
I’m assuming that Edie was born around 1920 if she helped Jewish families settle in the UK during WW2. There is this registration in Lancashire.
SMITH, ERNEST HALL
GRO Reference: 1915 D Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 358
Births Dec 1920
Smith Edith F Hall Leigh 8c 496
Edith was the only Smith registered in Leigh 1915 - 1925. There are several other Smith’s mother Hall registered Nottingham after 1920, so maybe they first moved from Manchester to Leigh, then Nottinghamshire?
From GRO indexes Edith's middle name is Florence
On 1921 census Leigh Lancashire there is a
Edith F Smith born 1920 Leigh
2 other names
Hubert Smith b 1896 Glazebury, Lancashire & Ada Smith b1899 Wigan, Lancashire
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Ernest Smith married Anne Carden, also from Manchester. I have very little information about my family.
Vicky
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The marriage certificate would give you his father’s name and occupation (hopefully). That would help you find the right person.
Do you have a year of death?
As has been said, there might be a birthdate in the death indexes which again could be useful for finding him.
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Ernest Smith married Anne Carden, also from Manchester. I have very little information about my family.
Vicky
Do you have their marriage certificate?
I can't see any marriage between a couple of these names either on freeBMD or on lancs OPC.
If you can get Ernest's father's name, that might help. Also the marriage certificate will show you where he lived at the time and possibly other family members might be traceable at that address. And sometimes witness names can be useful.
If you have any of those details for Ernest's marriage, can you post them? If you havent' been able to trace it either, I think that suggests two possibilities - firstly, that Ernest and Ann didn't marry; or secondly, that one or other of them used a different name -- eg, Ann may be a middle name rather than a first name, or she could have been previously married.
As someone else has mentioned, if you know when Ernest died, you may be able to get a better idea of his DOB (although that relies on correct information from the informant for the death certificate). You (or RCers!) might also be able to find an obituary.
(Heywood, you typed faster than I did!)
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Aha -- might this be the marriage?
Marriages Dec 1937
Carding Annie Smith Manchester S. 8d 103
Smith Ernest Carding Manchester S. 8d 103
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Looks good, Annie :)
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FindMyPast suggests 2 Smith/Carding birth registrations in the right time-- obviously either or both of these could still be alive so I'll not name them. But one was in Peterborough in 1940, the other in Blackpool in 1943. OP, could one of these be your father?
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Not that this helps with Ernest but is this Annie's birth & death entry?
Annie Carding
Sep 1916 Chorlton
Mother's Maiden Name: Edwards
Volume Number: 8c Page Number: 1265
Annie Smith Death Age: 91
Birth Date: 6 Aug 1916
Registration Date: Mar 2007
Registration District: Nottingham
Register Number: B82A
District and Subdistrict: 689/1B
Entry Number: 010
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This couple features on an Ancestry tree, which gives Ernest's birth as 22 Jan 1909 in Nottingham, and death 18 March 1993 in Carlton, Notts. Unfortunately it gives no further suggestions re Ernest's family but that might be something to work on.
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There is an Annie Smith with dob 6 8 1916 living in Peterborough in 1939 married to an Ernest born 31 Aug 1913
Do you know if Ernest served in the Army?
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There is an Annie Smith with dob 6 8 1916 living in Peterborough in 1939 married to an Ernest born 31 Aug 1913
That date for Annie's birth ties in with the ancestry tree I mentioned, although the one for Ernest doesn't
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1913 July - September
Ernest Smith mmn Edwards - Salford (perhaps mentioned before)
Ernest Smith mmn Mason Nottingham
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There are 4 Ernest Smith births in Nottingham in 1913, but without even being sure that that's where he was born, it will be a search for a Smith in a haystack of Smiths.
There are 3 deaths for Ernest Smith in Nottingham in 1993 (this assumes that the ancestry tree is correct), with yob between 1909 - 1913 (all of which are subject to informant error):
SMITH, ERNEST 1913
GRO Reference: DOR Q1/1993 in NOTTINGHAM (6891E) Reg E52A Entry Number 194
SMITH, ERNEST 1912
GRO Reference: DOR Q1/1993 in NOTTINGHAM (6891D) Reg D52A Entry Number 116
SMITH, ERNEST 1909
GRO Reference: DOR Q1/1993 in NOTTINGHAM (6891A) Reg A54A Entry Number 152
I think the best way forwards is for the OP to read this thread, and see if one of those Smith/Carding births might be her father. If that looks possible, then get the 1937 marriage cert to find Ernest's father's name. From there it might not be too difficult to track down Ernest's siblings.
(And remember, Edie might be a shortened version of Edith, a petname, or a middle name ---)
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Annie Carding
Sep 1916 Chorlton
Mother's Maiden Name: Edwards
Volume Number: 8c Page Number: 1265
Did Annie have a sister named Edie/Edith and was it Ernest sister-in-Law rather than his sister that helped in WW2 :-\
EDITH Carding birth 1919 Chorlton mmn Edwards
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Aha -- might this be the marriage?
Marriages Dec 1937
Carding Annie Smith Manchester S. 8d 103
Smith Ernest Carding Manchester S. 8d 103
For info. from Lancashire BMD their marriage was at
All Saints Gorton,
unfortunately the marriage has not been transcribed on Lancashire OPC
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The Ernest Smith with Annie in 1939 was, as stated earlier, born 31/8/1913 and he died in March 1993 in Nottingham with wife Annie born 6/8/1916 dying March 2007 Nottingham so proof that the couple located in 1939 at Peterborough did indeed move on to Nottingham.
Annette
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The Ernest Smith with Annie in 1939 was, as stated earlier, born 31/8/1913 and he died in March 1993 in Nottingham with wife Annie born 6/8/1916 dying March 2007 Nottingham so proof that the couple located in 1939 at Peterborough did indeed move on to Nottingham.
Possible baptism
Ernest Smith
Birth 31 Aug 1913
Baptism 10 Sep 1913 West Gorton, All Saints, Lancashire
Father: Thomas Smith, labourer
Mother: Charton (should read Charlotte) abode 42 Park Street
EDIT to add other earlier baptisms f Thomas, labourer m Charlotte
Elizabeth Smith 2 Dec 1908 West Gorton, All Saints
Emily Smith 10 Apr 1911 West Gorton, All Saints abode 55 Garden St
added
1911 census
Thomas 24 & Charlotte Smith 23 are lodging 55 Garden St West Gorton with the Lowthian’s married 3 years 1 child born 1 died
possible marriage
Dec 1907 Chorlton
Thomas SMITH
Female name on same page
Charlotte DOOLEY
Chorlton-on-Medlock Register Office or Registrar Attended (Lancashire BMD)
possible birth entries
SMITH, ERNEST mn DOOLEY
GRO Reference: 1913 D Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 08C Page 1417
SMITH, EMILY mmn DOOLEY
GRO Reference: 1911 J Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 08C Page 724
not sure if this is Elizabeth's birth entry
SMITH, ELIZABETH JANE mmn DOOLEY
GRO Reference: 1909 M Quarter in NOTTINGHAM Volume 07B Page 349
Added - there are other male/female Smith/Dooley births after 1913 but none that I can see with the name Edie or Edith Smith ???
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Ernest Smith married Anne Carden, also from Manchester. I have very little information about my family.
Vicky
A tree on Ancestry is the OP's own - i.e. Vicky parry - and she already has this information of birth/death dates which we've spent time researching on her behalf. Last signed into Ancestry last month!
Annette
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If you search “refugee committee” in the newspapers for 1939 it is apparent just about every town had one.
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Thank you,Annette- The reason I asked the same questions is because my family tree is so complicated. The best thing for me to do I think is ask a professional to have a look at it.
Vicky.
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Replies #29 and #30 deleted.
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I think a professional will say the same as us - get that marriage certificate. Or maybe they’ll get it for you and charge a premium!
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I think a professional will say the same as us - get that marriage certificate. Or maybe they’ll get it for you and charge a premium!
My thoughts too ;)
Even if it is complicated after the marriage, it will give a starting point to trace Ernest back.
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Thank you all who helped, I have now found a family member who is putting me on the right path.