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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: anitawanita on Saturday 17 September 22 10:36 BST (UK)

Title: Ruby May Bernard
Post by: anitawanita on Saturday 17 September 22 10:36 BST (UK)
Seeking your kind help once again  ;D

I have been informed that my relative Ruby May Bernard had a child out of wedlock and put them up for adoption. Ruby didn't have any other children that we know of and she married twice in her lifetime.

Ruby's Nephew, who knew about the child also knew that they had died (not sure what age, might have been a son).

I would love to find out more about Ruby's child, is it possible to find out any information about the birth/adoption?

More info about Ruby here:

http://www.rellyseeker.nz/ourfamilytree/MAWHINNEY-DALTON/ps09_442.html
Title: Re: Ruby May Bernard
Post by: minniehaha on Saturday 17 September 22 18:18 BST (UK)
Hello,

If you live in New Zealand and are able to visit one of the main libraries which hold microfiche for birth indexes, probably the only way you will be able to obtain the information you require, is to trawl through the years when you think the birth may have been registered.


Minniehaha.
Title: Re: Ruby May Bernard
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 17 September 22 19:29 BST (UK)
She was born 1892 & her first marriage was 1917 so you would be looking for a birth from approx 1909 - 1917
Title: Re: Ruby May Bernard
Post by: anitawanita on Saturday 17 September 22 23:06 BST (UK)
Thank you, looks like another trip to the library is on the cards!
Title: Re: Ruby May Bernard
Post by: anitawanita on Sunday 18 September 22 11:05 BST (UK)
I have checked the Bernard births but not exactly sure what name the child would be registered under. Would it be the mother's maiden name, Bernard?

The microfiche birth info correlates with the Bernard birth information on the NZ BDM website. Pretty much all of those births have both parents named except one.

 I understand that Ruby possibly had a son.


Title: Re: Ruby May Bernard
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 18 September 22 12:09 BST (UK)
I don't know how NZ birth registrations are shown.   In England - if the child is born to a married couple it would be on these lines

Barney Bernard - father Joseph Bernard  mother Mary Bernard nee Smith

If the child was subsequently adopted I would hazard a guess that the birth you found with only one parent named is a better possibility at this stage.  I am assuming you would be able to buy that cert to confirm mothers name?

Is there any facility within the NZ sytem to put a condition on the application that you only want the cert if mother was Ruby or Ruby May?
Title: Re: Ruby May Bernard
Post by: anitawanita on Sunday 18 September 22 14:18 BST (UK)
Thank you. The mothers name was Lillian so unlikely to be our Ruby Bernard..

I've fired off a couple of enquiries about researching past adoptions. I went through a similar process many years (decades) ago for another relative, but perhaps things have changed now?
Title: Re: Ruby May Bernard
Post by: CaroleW on Sunday 18 September 22 16:36 BST (UK)
Just how reliable is the source of the info re illegitimate child?  There have been instances here on RC where it has later been found that the source had got confused with another family or family member.

How did the nephew hear about it & from whom?  Is the nephew from Ruby’s side of the family?

Title: Re: Ruby May Bernard
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 18 September 22 19:43 BST (UK)
On the NZ BDMs you can put just a fullstop in the surname field, Ruby in mother’s name  field and your date range. And then, in the resultant list, see who has a father NR (not recorded). But I do not know if that would help or not.
These are the ones I could see which were not girls and where Ruby did not have a more obvious second name, like Dorcas.

1916/27093   Boddington   Donald Stuart   Ruby Mary   NR
1909/24983   Caddy   Raymond Gordon   Ruby   NR
1914/5268   Davidson   Cecil Edward   Ruby   NR
1911/26579   Dodd   Frank   Ruby   NR
1915/12424   Foster   NR   Ruby   NR
1910/15903   Goss   John   Ruby   NR

Title: Re: Ruby May Bernard
Post by: anitawanita on Sunday 18 September 22 22:36 BST (UK)
Thank you so much, that's a great search function.

Archives NZ said I would have to apply through Oranga Tamariki for more info but there are restrictions no matter how long ago the adoption was.

Ruby's Nephew I would consider a reliable source although sadly he is no longer with us. He knew that the son had also died with no children (I don't know what age he was)
Title: Re: Ruby May Bernard
Post by: Lucy2 on Monday 19 September 22 01:56 BST (UK)

Ruby's Nephew I would consider a reliable source although sadly he is no longer with us. He knew that the son had also died with no children (I don't know what age he was)

 ???    Hmm ... so this event (birth of the child) wasn't kept "a secret" from Ruby's immediate
 family ?

*    As to the death of Ruby's "adopted out" child (whether young or an adult), why would the Nephew or his nearest family, be in a position to be informed of this death ?   (What was the necessity for that ?  Given that an adoption at that time generally meant the child was "lost" to his/her birth family ... all ties severed.)

*    Have you considered that Ruby's child may have been "adopted out" to someone in the wider family ... or just simply "taken in or fostered" by family friends ??

     ~  Lu
Title: Re: Ruby May Bernard
Post by: anitawanita on Monday 19 September 22 05:40 BST (UK)
Thanks Lu, all very valid points to think about.

I am sort of being drip fed the information as my relative recalls the story. The latest is that Ruby's Nephew had learned about 'the child' when he got speaking to a relative at a family members funeral. So yes it's all very convoluted and a bit of a mystery. Apparently 'Ruby's son' died in his 50s with no children of his own.

I guess I was hoping the official records could tell us yes this happened or no it didn't, but of course it is all restricted information and quite possibly we will never know.

Title: Re: Ruby May Bernard
Post by: anitawanita on Thursday 22 September 22 07:00 BST (UK)
Seems like we have a way forward by applying to BDM for the information (as all involved people are now deceased).

Thanks all!