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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: acaciabound on Friday 16 September 22 23:17 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
Wondering if anyone can work out the birthplace for me.
All I know is Perthsire Scotland
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Try my best
Nairn', _ Kent
Crammen, Perthshire
Serthland?
Good luck
Cheers
Jack Gee
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I saw Nairn Kent as well but Nairn isn’t in Kent, unless “Nairn” was a house name? An I or J above the K which I can’t explain. Upstroke of the K looks odd so may not be a K, but my first thought was K and now I can’t see anything else. :-\
I see Cramen or Cranen Perthshire Scotland but Genuki doesn’t show any such place. The list is not comprehensive though.
I would be looking for other documents to confirm those place names.
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My attempt Nairn??, Craven Perthshire, Scotland . Regards Orkrad
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My attempt Nairn??, Craven Perthshire, Scotland . Regards Orkrad
I was just about to suggest Craven as an alternative but can’t see anywhere in Perthshire called Craven.
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Isn't it just a very squashed "Scotland" after Nairn?
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Isn't it just a very squashed "Scotland" after Nairn?
Yes, it could well be, and makes complete sense. :)
Added: In fact the first letter has similarities with the S of Spinster.
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Acaciabound, have you looked through the Scotlandspeople index for the birth of this lady?
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A relative has and all we come up with is Perthshire.
The marriage certificate from here in Australia has more detail but can't work it out other than the Perthshire Scotland
Janet's parents worked at Ruthven as per below.
By the time of the 1841 Census, William and Jane were at the address of Huntingtower Castle in the county of Perthshire. His occupation noted as a ‘Labourer’ age 25 and Jane/Jean also 25. The castle is located not far from where both William and Jane were baptized and married at Tibbermore, and close to Ruthvenfield.William working as a laborer could have meant he either worked at the castle or more likely worked in the bleaching fields abounding Huntingtower castle and the village of Huntingtower
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I assume William and Jane are the people getting married?
Can you toss us their surnames from the marriage, please? Going to try the old newspapers out of desperation!
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William and Jane are the parents of Janet Gorrie. b 1847 Perthshire
That is Janets Australian marriage certificate stating where she was born.
I did just come across this place but not sure still...
- could it be Cairnie
https://saintsplaces.gla.ac.uk/place.php?id=1403
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The death certificate should give information about place of birth too, though detail and correctness is dependent on knowledge of informant.
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I am looking at the 1851 INDEX for what I think is the correct family:
William is a bleacher, born Methven 1815
Jane b 1816
Children
James b 1842 in Tibbermuir (as transcribed, so Tibbermore I would assume)
John b 1844 ditto
Janet b 1847 ditto
William Jr b 1851 in Perth Parish
So if this is the right family, some where close to Tibbermore.
Back to the map!
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Yes, correct family and yes to Tibbermore but that is not what the certificate has, which maybe could be a house / hospital name and not a town.
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I am only seeing ONE reference to a Craven, and I am not even sure if it is part of the address. Its an ad in a 1917 newspaper. And 30 miles from Tibbermore.
It IS possible Jane did a "laying in" away from home.
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Thank you BBart and everyone else for your input.
I will leave it as is for now that we all think Craven
Thanks again
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Someone may still come along with a new angle. Keep checking back!
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I'm not happy with it being Craven: I have interests in Craven as a surname and an area, both in Yorkshire, and I also have connections in Perthshire. In all the years I've been researching I've never come across anywhere in Perthshire called Craven - nor anyone, for that matter. If it had come up, I'm sure I would have noticed. I think the newspaper ad must be giving the name of an incomer - he was a butler and ex-soldier, so quite possibly someone who was happy to move around for suitable work.
I did just come across this place but not sure still...
- could it be Cairnie
https://saintsplaces.gla.ac.uk/place.php?id=1403
I'm afraid I wasn't happy with this either - it is in or associated with somewhere called Ruthven, but that one is in Aberdeenshire.
I've pored over old maps and not seen anything likely, so I think it's most likely a best guess on the part of a clerk or minister based on what they heard. As such, it might be Ruthven, which is pronounced 'Riven'; or alternatively, but probably less likely, Methven, pronounced 'Mevin'.
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Thanks for your effort and knowledge, some times we just have to accept that we can't find out.
We know where her family were situated so it is not a total loss.
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When I was about 16 and tearing about Scotland on a motorbike we were searching for the location of GASK in Perthshire for the motorcycle racing and stopped for a Fish Tea in Aberuthven.
The locals called it ' Bruvven '
A stretch but worth a try, cheers, Ian
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The OS six inch map 1st edition 1843 -1882 (viewable online though the National Library of Scotland) has a "Kinnonpark" located slightly North West of Tibbermore, but still within that parish I would think. It appears to be a substantial building with a few cottages behind. Given that the family are later located at Huntingtower, could it be that William was a labourer on this estate in 1847, which has been named as just Kinnon, or Cinnon later?
On a slightly different note, Huntingtower Castle is still there, and probably best known as the setting for the John Buchan Novel Huntingtower, whilst Tibbermore was the site of the Battle of Tippermuir when the Royalist forces of James Graham Marquis of Montrose defeated a covenanting army under lord Elcho in September 1644.
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From the same map - other possibles.
West of Tibbermore is a small hamlet called Greenhill. Just South of Methven is a "Cleikuminn" and Tibbermore parish seems to include three farms Mains of Cultmalundie, Wester Cultmalundie and Easter Cultmalundie. If, like Culter near Aberdeen the "lt" is effectively silent, that might well sound something like "Cumalun" to Australian ears.
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A wild thought: could she have been meaning she was born in a Caravan in Perthshire, and was unsure of exactly where?
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just north of Cupar Angus on the way to Alyth is a wee place called CRONAN
Could that be it?
cheers, Ian
https://maps.nls.uk/view/74400738
Turns out it's a Farm, but special because of Broccoli and Solar Energy but it exists on older maps.
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after a bit of tinkering ... Ian
also see;
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/perthshire-os-name-books-1859-1862/perthshire-volume-18/3
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Place names in Tibbermore from Perthshire OS Name Books, 1859-1862/ Perthshire volume 76
https://scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/digital-volumes/ordnance-survey-name-books/perthshire-os-name-books-1859-1862/perthshire-volume-76
Click on page 45 for the index page for the parish.
Nothing jumping out for me :-\
Monica
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Thanks again everyone, Rootschatters are just so giving and amazing. xxx
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Cronan Farm, a fine farm house and office the property of the late David Blair Esquire of Cronan.
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I like your suggestion of Cronan Ian. :)
I initially thought the first vowel was an a because of the downstroke on the right of the letter, but I see in other examples of o such as in Bachelor, that also has the same downstroke to the right.
If location fits, it might be right.
I would also consider purchasing the Australian death certificate/s. No guarantees, but may be worth a gamble.
Who and when did Janet marry in Australia?
Added: Was it John McGregor in 1874?
Reason for asking was I thought there may be newspaper mentions of the family, obits (which often mention places of birth) etc, but with such common names may be an impossible task.
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Is it possible to post more of the image please for letter comparison as the initials of the 1st 2 words are difficult to work out?
Annie