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Family History Documents and Artefacts => Unwanted Certificates & Artefacts => Unwanted Birth, Marriage, Death Certs N to S => Topic started by: NeilRJF on Friday 16 September 22 19:49 BST (UK)
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Harriet SMITH born 12/11/1857 to Charles and Harriet Smith (nee White) at 12 Deuzell(?) Street, St. Clement Danes. Strand district Vol 1b p 433.
Was looking for 2xgt g'mother (so many Smiths!)
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You purchased another wrong Harriet Smith birth cert, registered same quarter, St. Giles, back in 2013.
Topic: SMITH Harriet 25/9/1857 Westminster - Birth Cert
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=663592.0
Perhaps you could try posting a query on Rootschat requesting help to find your 2x great grandmother?
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12 Nov 1881, St. Martin in the Fields
John Crow, full, Bachelor, Clerk, residence Lambeth
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Harriet Charlotte Smith, full, Spinster, residence 28 Hertford Street, father Edward Smith, Coachman
Witnesses George Smith, Alice Smith
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Well, one tree thinks she is the daughter of Edward Smith and "Kelina" (I think probably is Keturah)
Here they are in St. Margaret's Westminster in 1861.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7LW-YQK
Harriett Smith is 3, born Middlesex St. Margarets.
Father Edward, 31, born St. George's, is a Coachman.
Mum is 30, also born St. George's.
Siblings are George, Alice, Charlotte.
George and Alice could be the marriage witnesses!
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This is interesting? Elliott, not Smith!!
Births
ELLIOTT, HARRIET CHARLOTTE
Mother's Maiden Surname: LANGFORD
GRO Reference: 1857 D Quarter in WESTMINSTER Volume 01A Page 270
ELLIOTT, CHARLOTTE
Mother's Maiden Surname: LANGFORD
GRO Reference: 1860 J Quarter in WESTMINSTER Volume 01A Page 290
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Going back
ELLIOTT, GEORGE EDWARD
Mother's Maiden Surname: LANGFORD
GRO Reference: 1853 J Quarter in SAINT GEORGE HANOVER SQUARE Volume 01A Page 170
ELLIOTT, ALICE
Mother's Maiden Surname: LANGFORD
GRO Reference: 1855 M Quarter in MARYLEBONE Volume 01A Page 373
Those Elliott births seem a good match to the Smith family!
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Keturah was not a very common name.
Could this be her? :-\
Baptism, 5 Nov 1832, St. George Hanover Square
Keturah
Parents Thomas & Catherine Langford
Abode Hayes Mews
Father a Servant
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In 1871 the Smith family are in Kensington.
Unhelpfully they have decided that everybody was born in Kensington.
An addition to the family, Frederick, age 1.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBX7-6X6
Have they gone for being Smith on Frederick's birth reg? :-\
SMITH, FREDERICK WILLIAM
Mother's Maiden Surname: LANGFORD
GRO Reference: 1869 S Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 135
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Baptism, 5 Nov 1832, St. George Hanover Square
Keturah
Parents Thomas & Catherine Langford
It was a double baptism.
Brother Thomas William was baptized with her.
Could Catherine have been Keturah? :-\
Marriage, 23 June 1818, St George Hanover Square
Thomas Langford + Keturah Jones.
Now there is a problem. I can't find young Keturah in 1841 and 1851 :(
Did she survive?
Census possibility for the family in 1841
St George Hanover Square
Thomas Langford 49 Coachman, Not born county
Kitura Langford 40 No
William Iles 30 Groom No
Sarah Langford 18 Yes
Thomas Langford 10 Yes
Image on FS, better than the one on ancestry
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QHV-13G2-N5CF
Baptism 2 June 1826, St George Hanover Sq
Sarah
Parents Thomas + Keturah Langford
Abode Little Barlow St
Born 19 Decr 1823
Father a Coachman
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Well I found her!
Her age is out on Keturah Smith's age though.
1851
St George Hanover Square
7 Griffin Court
Keturah Langford Head W 53 Serv. (Housekeeper), born Surrey Richmond
Keturah Langford Daur 24, born Middx. St. Geoe. Hanr. Sqre.
Seems to be no marriage for Keturah after 1851.
Death of mum
Dec 1866 St George Hanover Square 1a 178
Langford, Keturah
Age 70
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Marriage at St George Han. Sq. (you see why they abbreviate this place!)
8 May 1853
George Gouldsworthy, full age, Bachelor, Servant
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Sarah Langford, full age, Spinster, residence Chapel Place, father Thomas Langford, Servant
Witnesses James Bailey? and Kate Elliott
Who was Kate Elliott?
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The Smiths are still about in 1881, down in Leigh, Kent.
Edward Smith Head 46 Coachman (Domestic) London St. George's
Keturah Smith Wife 44 London St. George's
Alice Smith Daur 19 no occupation Middlesex Marlebowe (looks like)
Frederick Smith Son 9 Scholar Middlesex Kensington (benefit of the doubt on that!)
Edward and Keturah are losing years, she is only 44!
All their ages are out.
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In 1881 Harriet is a servant at the address she gave on her marriage certificate, 28 Hertford Street, in St. George Hanover Square.
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Do come back Neil, and let us know what you think of this Elliott idea!
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I think it might be Neil's tree :-\
Am I right?
Anyway, a marriage for Alice to add to it!
It was at Leigh, Kent, 5 Oct 1891, where we saw them in the 1881 census.
Albert John Marshall, 34, Bachelor, Clerk, residence Hammersmith, Middlesex
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Alice Smith, 30, Spinster, residence Leigh, father Edward Smith, Coachman
Witnessed by Edward Smith, Frederick Smith
All signed.
They are in Hammersmith in 1901.
Three daughters, eldest is Keturah.
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1891 census can be added as well.
Leigh, Kent
Edward Smith Head 58 Coachman, born London St Georges
Alice Smith Daughter 26 London St Georges
Maud Crow Gr. Daughter 7 Scholar Middlesex St Georges
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Well, that tree has Alice Maud Crow born 1884 in it.
But doesn't have her in 1891.
The Crows, John and Harriet C, are in Heston, Middlesex.
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1901 census
Leigh, Kent
Edward Smith Head Wdr 68 Coachman, born London S.W.
Ada Smith Visitor M 36 Surrey Holmwood
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1901 census
Leigh, Kent
Ada Smith Visitor M 36 Surrey Holmwood
Which leads us back to 1891.
Marylebone
George Smith Head M 40 Coachman
Ada Smith Wife M 28
Maud Smith Daur 6
Harry Smith Son 8
Nellie Ansell Sister in Law S 18
George born London.
Rest born Holmwood Surrey.
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Which leads us back to 1891.
Marylebone
George Smith Head M 40 Coachman
Ada Smith Wife M 28
Maud Smith Daur 6
Harry Smith Son 8
Nellie Ansell Sister in Law S 18
George born London.
Rest born Holmwood Surrey.
Marriage
22 August 1881, Holmwood (St Mary), Surrey
George ELLIOTT, 28, Bachelor, Coachman, residence Holmwood, father Edward ELLIOTT, Coachman
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Ada Ansell, 18, Spinster, residence Holmwood, father Henry Ansell, Labourer
Witnesses William Fisher, Alice Ansell
Which confirms the Elliott theory!!
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Which confirms the Elliott theory!!
What's the reason for the two names though?
Somewhere in Edward's story!
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Is this his death?
March 1903 Sevenoaks 2a 462
Smith, Edward
Age 72
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Address for Edward in Leigh in 1901 was Knotley.
Probate Calendar 1903
Edward Smith of Knotley-cottage Leigh Kent
Died 15 February 1903
Administration :( to Frederick William Smith sub-manager
So sadly no will, but confirms the death is the right one (good thing with the name Smith)
And that Frederick was Frederick William.
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Perhaps you could try posting a query on Rootschat requesting help to find your 2x great grandmother?
Not really much point now ;D
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Perhaps you could try posting a query on Rootschat requesting help to find your 2x great grandmother?
Not really much point now ;D
Why not, need a good reason John
John
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Wow – thanks Jon!
Yes, I had ordered the wrong certificate again of course, though nine years apart (like many I do this in fits and starts).
It was Keturah that I was now looking for primarily, with Harriet (my 2xg g’mother being the vector). It may have been my tree you were looking at (on Ancestry?). The Elliott angle is an interesting one – will look at that; it would be a strange coincidence and an interesting story somewhere in there! Incidentally I had a theory that Harriet gave herself the middle name Charlotte after her deceased little sister rather than having it from birth. You finding Keturah’s details is a great help though – thanks! The Langford name had crossed on my radar briefly but I hadn’t been able to zero in on it properly until now. Clearly plenty to work on.
Cheers,
Neil