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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Westby on Saturday 10 September 22 06:03 BST (UK)
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I'm looking for Archibald Francis COLVILLE, who lived in Grahamstown/Adelong NSW. I have details of his marriage and of his son (the same name, which is confusing), but I have been unable to find any details about his birth, parentage, death, etc.
I'd appreciate any clues others might be able to offer.
Thanks in advance.
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Archibald Francis COLVILLE
Date and place of birth: Unknown
Date and place of death: Unknown
Married Anne/Annie Gorman (1869 - 1907) in Adelong, NSW, in 1906
Lived in Adelong. Bought a small block of land (location of Shamrock Hotel) in Adelong about 1908.
Son: Archibald Francis COLVILLE (1907 – 1970)
Married Elizabeth Muriel Ryan, 1929, Wollongong
Daughter: Sheila Rose Colville (1939 – 1939)
His mother (Annie Gorman) died when he was a very young baby, and he was raised by his aunt.
Worked as a miner in Dapto, NSW
In 1932, he leased the Shamrock Hotel and the electoral role shows him living in Adelong as a hotelkeeper in 1932
He received compensation as the licensee in 1933 when the license of the Shamrock Hotel was surrendered
Died in Dapto
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If you are researching Archibald COLVILLE, this marriage certificate will have information that Archibald records about his origins.
NSW BDM marriage
3571/1906 COLVILLE Archibald marr. GORMAN Annie @ Adelong
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If you are researching Archibald COLVILLE, this marriage certificate will have information that Archibald records about his origins.
NSW BDM marriage
3571/1906 COLVILLE Archibald marr. GORMAN Annie @ Adelong
Once you have that information, you will perhaps be able to sort out various Colvilles on Trove
https://trove.nla.gov.au/search/category/newspapers?keyword=“Archibald%20colville”
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You may already have this obit for Annie COLVILLE who died only 12 days after the birth of their baby.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/139087330
TROVE has a later advertisement re the estate of Annie Colville - adminstration of the estate granted to Rose Morrison an aunt of the child Archibald as she is his 'duly appointed guardian'. I would think that this implies that Archibald senior is not on the scene as surely he, being the father, would be the legal guardian of his child.
APPLICATION will be made after fourteen days from the publication hereof that letters of administration durante minore aetate of ARCHIBALD' FRANCIS COLVILLE a son of the abovenamed deceased, may be granted to 'of the above estate to ROSE GERTRUDE MORRISON of Grahamstown aforesaid, married^ woman and Aunt of the said ARCHIBALD FRANCIS COLVILLEand his duly appointed Guardian
This probate application is dated 1912 some years after the death of Annie
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/112264129
Judith
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Some possibilities associated with a family from Victoria?
COLVILLE Archibald
Birth 1876 YACKANDANDAH
MOTHER Mary RUSSELL
FATHER Archibald
Death in New Zealand?
1954/32644 Colville Archibald 78Y
Maybe a 2nd Marriage in VICTORIA?
COLVILLE Archibald
Marriage 1913
WATERSON, Violet
Essie
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There is also a marriage in NZ of an Archibald Colville to a Hannah Gosling in 1917
And they had a son also Archibald Colville in 1918.
You can see why it is essential you buy the 1906 marriage certificate!
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Unfortunately the marriage notice for the 1906 wedding only has the bride's mother named - Rose GORMAN.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article108589194
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Thanks, everyone for your suggestions. I must admit I was hoping to avoid buying the marriage cert. This family is of interest but not critical to my search but it looks like I'll have to bite the bullet and spend the money!
I don't think the Colville's in Victoria are the same family. I know that the Archibald who lived in Yakandanah was not my Archibald.
Thanks, Judith for the suggestion about the guardianship of young Archibald. I'd assumed it was just something that would have happened in that time, that a single father looking after a baby wasn't really a thing, but it could be that the father had also died. I know he was alive in 1908 as he bought land in Adelong that year.
Cheers
Fleur
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I don't think the Colville's in Victoria are the same family. I know that the Archibald who lived in Yakandanah was not my Archibald.
How do you know that he was not "your" Archibald?
It is a bit of a coincidence that an Archibald Francis COLVILLE (son of Archibald COLVILLE) is born in Adelong, NSW on 19 Feb 1907, and another Archibald Francis “Frank” COLVILLE (son of George Reid COLVILLE) is born in Yackandandah, VIC in 1902.
Are you sure that there wasn’t some kind of a family relationship?
George Reid COLVILLE (1868 - 1938) had a brother called Archibald COLVILLE (1876 - 1954) who married Violet Annie WATERSON in 1913 in Victoria. In the Victorian Roll for the 1899 Federal Referendum, there is a labourer called Archibald COLVILLE residing in Stanley (close to Yackandandah) … But what happened to this Victorian born Archibald between 1899 and 1913? Why couldn’t he be your guy Archibald sr who disappeared from NSW after his wife Annie died on 2 Mar 1907?
See also: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Colville-192
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I'm looking for Archibald Francis COLVILLE, who lived in Grahamstown/Adelong NSW. I have details of his marriage and of his son (the same name, which is confusing), but I have been unable to find any details about his birth, parentage, death, etc.
Where have you seen the second given name Francis, attached to the father of the infant Archibald Francis COLVILLE?
Sue
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You need to see the marriage certificate.
Is this your Archibald?
Adelong and Tumut Express and Tumbarumba Post 17 May 1907 p2
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/104358854?searchTerm=Colville
Presentation at Grahamstown to Arch COLVILLE leaving for new appointment Emmaville...
*...associated for six years....
* promotion in carrying out dredging operations....
*...made himself a host of friends....
Sounds like he has been a local for several years.
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Thank you wivenhoe. I didn't see this article. This definitely looks like my Archibald. There was a tin mine at Emmaville so it looks like he might have been going there to continue his mining work.
Thanks also TreeSpirit for the discussion about the Colvilles in Victoria. They could certainly be related, but I was suggesting my Archibald was not one of those I'd found who was born and died in Yackandandah as the dates don't match.
I've ordered the marriage cert, so hopefully, some of these mysteries will be solved shortly!
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If the Yackandandah guy was into football e.g.:
Jun 1895 - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/144948819?searchTerm=Colville
May 1900 - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/144808910?searchTerm=Colville
There might be a link to the guy playing football for Grahamstown (i.e. near Adelong) in May 1905 - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/121733668?searchTerm=Colville
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The wikitree page says he went to Greymouth NZ.
"A place which is perhaps best known for its mining history."'
Death of Archibald's 2nd wife.
COLVILLE Violet Death aged 31
Reg. 11684/1915 Yackandandah
Mother: Agnes MAGEE
Father: Hugh WATERSON
No wonder there was another marriage in New Zealand.
Essie
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Your opening post -
"I'm looking for Archibald Francis COLVILLE, who lived in Grahamstown/Adelong NSW. I have details of his marriage and of his son (the same name, which is confusing)"
Reply #9 - Sparrett
"Where have you seen the second given name Francis, attached to the father of the infant Archibald Francis COLVILLE?"
NSW BDM marriage
3571/1906 COLVILLE Archibald marr. GORMAN Annie @ Adelong
birth
653/1907 COLVILLE Archibald F
parents Archibald / Annie @ Adelong
marriage
8133/1929 COLVILLE Archibald F marr. RYAN Muriel E @ Wollongong
death
34942/1970 COLVILLE Archibald Francis
parents Archibald Francis / Annie @ Wollongong
The only occasion I see where your Archibald COLVILLE, married 1906, has a second given name is when an informant, so far unknown, identifies him as father of his son, Archibald Francis COLVILLE, died 1970 Wollongong.
What other instance do you see of your Archibald COLVILLE, married 1906 NSW, to have a second given name?
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Your opening post -
"I'm looking for Archibald Francis COLVILLE, who lived in Grahamstown/Adelong NSW. I have details of his marriage and of his son (the same name, which is confusing)"
Reply #9 - Sparrett
"Where have you seen the second given name Francis, attached to the father of the infant Archibald Francis COLVILLE?"
NSW BDM marriage
3571/1906 COLVILLE Archibald marr. GORMAN Annie @ Adelong
birth
653/1907 COLVILLE Archibald F
parents Archibald / Annie @ Adelong
marriage
8133/1929 COLVILLE Archibald F marr. RYAN Muriel E @ Wollongong
death
34942/1970 COLVILLE Archibald Francis
parents Archibald Francis / Annie @ Wollongong
The only occasion I see where your Archibald COLVILLE, married 1906, has a second given name is when an informant, so far unknown, identifies him as father of his son, Archibald Francis COLVILLE, died 1970 Wollongong.
What other instance do you see of your Archibald COLVILLE, married 1906 NSW, to have a second given name?
Yes. So he may have been simply Archibald COLVILLE who had a son named Archibald Francis COLVILLE.
As we are discovering there were more than one Archibald COLVILLE.
Sue
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Obit Rose GORMAN 1911 “ran the Shamrock with help of Family”
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/121484257
1907 Archibald COLVILLE is farewelled. He has been in Grahamstown for about 7 years, but the news item’s author chooses not to mention anything about a wife or son.
So guardianship for the child is given to his dead wife’s sister Rose MORRISON nee GORMAN. It’s been stated she has this guardianship in 1912, which is several years after his father’s departure. This Rose (etta) had married John MORRISON ( in 1905), who was at that time proprietor of the Shamrock Hotel at Grahamstown and continued this role at least to 1914 -see Sands Directory 1914 and this item.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/104355059
The license changed over in June 1915 after which the MORRISONS left for Myrtleford Vic
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/122197991
A death notice for Rose MORRISON in Victoria, makes no mention of Archibald, her sister’s child.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/206410023.
So Archibald (senior) goes to Emmaville in 1907 presumably as a single man, and one line of thought is-
By 1913 he has turned south and traveled about a 1000 kilometers to Yackandandah where he marries Violet WATERSON in 1913. She dies in 1915, apparently without children.
In Mem 1916
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/144792776
The licensee of the Shamrock Hotel in June 1933 was A (T Possibly a misprint of F) COLVILLE. He was a married man. This item explains the ins and outs of some family relationships.
Hotel ceases trade and there is a case for compensation of concerned parties.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/224987748
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/223079885
So one wonders whether Archibald the younger ever left Grahamstown between his guardian's departure for Victoria and his marriage .
One line of thought continues that Archibald COLLVILLE (snr) moves to Greymouth and marries again to Hannah GOSLING in 1917. This man died there in 1954 aged 78 years and his MI at Greymouth Cemetery mentions no others.
So the question is-
All of the above is correct
Some of the above is correct, if so which bits? ;D
Sue
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By 1913 he has turned south and traveled about a 1000 kilometers to Yackandandah where he marries Violet WATERSON in 1913. She dies in 1915, apparently without children.
In 1913 Archibald and Violet had a son Russel Waterson COLVILLE in Yackandandah.
WW2:
Name: COLVILLE, RUSSEL WATERSON
Service: Australian Army
Service Number: VX107094
Date of Birth: 02 Nov 1913
Place of Birth: YACKANDANDAH, VIC
Date of Enlistment: 07 Aug 1942
Locality on Enlistment: RICHMOND, VIC
Place of Enlistment: IN THE FIELD, WA
Next of Kin: MCKIBBIN, A
Date of Discharge: 16 Oct 1945
Rank: Corporal
Posting at Discharge: L H Q SCHOOL OF WATER TRANSPORT
Prisoner of War: No
Honours: None for display
1995 death: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/229389599/russell-waterson-colville
Was he left behind by dad as well?
Update:
"MCKIBBIN, A" could be Russel's "mother" in 1953 (i.e. Annie Hall Johnston McKIBBIN nee COLVILLE 85Y).
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/23243876?searchTerm=Colville
When Annie's husband Samuel dies in 1945, he's Russel's uncle ....
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/1110833?searchTerm=mckibbin
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Here is the connection Tree Spirit, if you had not already spotted it.
Wm Jas COLLVILLE
Married
WATERSON, Annie Hall Johnston
In 1894 Reg. 6364
A news snip names her as Mrs COLVILLE when she remarried to Samuel McKIBBIN.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/144919433
Archibald COLVILLE'S (presumed brother) William James had married the probable sister of Archibald wife, Violet. William James died in 1897.
So it looks like the child Russell ,as you correctly suggest, was taken in by Ann COLLVILE when the mother Violet died.
Sue
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Also
When the mother of the Yackandanda COLVILLE brothers, Mary (nee RUSSELL), died in 1911, her obituary states living issue 4 daughters and 2 sons.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/145021281
Sons born and indexed were James 1862/22889 Wm Jas 1865/19632, George Reid 1868/6475, Archibald 1876/20299.
James died 1864/2541. Wm James died 1897/15147, and George Reid 1938/12225.
So in 1911, according to Victorian indexing, two sons living were George Reid and Archibald, whose recorded birth date matches the age at death of the NZ man.
Sue
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Here is the connection Tree Spirit, if you had not already spotted it.
Good pick up and no I hadn't spotted it yet. I'd seen that Annie McKibben was born in Ireland and that's when I stopped looking for the exact relationship to Archibald and his son Russel.
I didn't want to spend too much time on VIC Archibald sr as we can't be 100% sure yet that he is the same person as NSW Archibald sr (i.e. until that NSW marriage certificate turns up). Nevertheless, it is interesting that both these Archibalds have a wife who dies shortly after child birth, that both guys move away pretty quickly and that both seem to leave their child behind.
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And that the one who died in NZ was born c. 1876 as was the son of Archi. and Mary COVLLE (nee RUSSELL)
Sue
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Thank you all for your excellent sleuthing and for all the time you've spent unravelling the puzzle. You really uncovered an amazing amount of info.
I now have the marriage cert and can confirm that Archibald Colville that lived in Adelong and married Annie Gorman in 1906 was born in Yackandandah, moved to Emmaville and died in NZ. As we now know, he married three times. Sadly, his first two wives died young, leaving very young sons that Archibald seems to have left to be cared for by their aunts.
So the chronology for Archibald Colville is:
1860 (approx.) - Archibald Colville and Mary Russell (Archibald I), from County Down, Ireland, arrive in Australia, settle in Yackandandah and have 9 children
1876 – Archibald II born in Yackandandah
1879 – Archibald I dies in Yackandandah (48 years)
1895 – Archibald II is living in Yackandandah (playing football)
1897 – Archibald II is working in Beechworth in a tannery
By 1900 - Archibald II moves to Adelong in NSW to work as a gold miner
1906 – Archibald II marries Annie Gorman, whose family owns the Shamrock Hotel in Grahamstown (near Adelong)
1907 – son Archibald Francis (Archibald III) is born, but Annie dies when Archibald is only about 12 days old, and he is taken into the care of his mother’s sister, Rose Morrison.
1907 – Archibald II leaves Grahamstown and moves to Emmaville in NSW to work as a miner (leaving his son behind)
1908 – Archibald II buys the land on which the Shamrock Hotel stands (formerly a gold mining reserve)
1912 – Rose Gorman dies, and John Morrison takes over as licensee of the Shamrock (3 years), owned by two unmarried Gorman daughters, Elizabeth and Ada.
1913 – Archibald II returns to Yackandandah, where he marries Violet Annie Waterson.
1913 – son Russell Waterson Colville is born
1915 – Violet Colville dies when Archibald III is less than two years old, and he is taken into the care of his aunt, Annie Hall Johnston Waterson, who later marries Archibald II’s brother William James Colville
1917 - Rose (nee Gorman) and her husband John Morrison leave the hotel and return to their family farm in Myrtleford, Victoria (where is Archibald III?)
By 1917 – Archibald II moves to New Zealand (Greymouth), where he works as a miner, but later works for NZ railways
1917 – Archibald II marries Hannah Gosling (widow) and has two sons, Archibald (born 1918/9) and William James (1921)
By 1924– Archibald III is living in Yackandandah
1929 – Archibald III marries Elizabeth Muriel Ryan in Wollongong. They live in Dapto. Archibald III is working as a miner. They have a daughter who lives only for a short time.
By 1932 – Archibald is living in Grahamstown and is the licensee of the Shamrock Hotel
1934 – Archibald III is the licensee when the family surrenders the licence. He returns to Dapto where he lives until his death in 1970 He is known to visit his aunt Elizabeth McNarama who continues to live in the Shamrock in Grahamstown after it ceases to be a hotel, at least until the 1940s
1954 – Archibald II dies in New Zealand aged 78 years
1968 – Archibald Colville is the registered proprietor of the block of land in Grahamstown – can we assume this is Archibald III as his father died in 1954?
1970 – Archibald III dies in Dapto
BTW I am interested in these people as I'm putting together a history of the Shamrock Hotel. Sadly the building no longer exists, but a friend has bought the land on which it stood, and I'm trying to put together a history of the families who lived and worked there. I'm not sure when the hotel was demolished, but I know it was still standing in the 1940s.
Thanks again
Fleur
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Hi Fleur
A certificate is a wonderful thing.
Would you please patiently type up every detail from the cert you now have.
Please just copy the exact words written for every heading without any speculative comments.
Many thanks if you have the time to do this,
Sue
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"I now have the marriage cert and can confirm that Archibald Colville that lived in Adelong and married Annie Gorman in 1906 was born in Yackandandah, moved to Emmaville and died in NZ. "
I think we are all keen to know what is recorded on the certificate.
Can you please list all the information on the document.
If you have relevant comments to make about the information you see, you should place them after the listed information please.
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Marriage Certificate 3571/1906
Date and place of marriage: 16 May, Grahamstown NSW
Parties:
Archibald Colville
- miner
- Grahamstown NSW
- bachelor
- birthplace - Yackandandah, Victoria
- 28 years
- Father - Archibald Colville (dec), miner
- Mother - Mary Russell
Annie Gorman ** birthname Anne **
- housemaid
- Grahamstown NSW
- spinster
- birthplace - Gundagai, NSW
- 35 years
- Father - Michael Gorman (dec), hotelkeeper
- Mother - Rose McEnroe
Married: Shamrock Hotel, Grahamstown, NSW
According to rites of: Roman Catholic Church
Witnesses: Denis Collins, Ada Gorman
Registered: 31 May 1906
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Thanks. That is really clear now that the parents, at first only a line of speculation were in fact Archbald COLVILLE and Mary RUSSELL.
Cicumstances and existing information make it likely that the deceased man aged 78 in 1958 in NZ is the father of the younger Archbald, but no certainty.
Sue