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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Mhillbilly on Monday 05 September 22 03:31 BST (UK)

Title: 1939 Register question
Post by: Mhillbilly on Monday 05 September 22 03:31 BST (UK)
I can speculate but wonder if anyone knows the reason why in the 1939 register I have found pages of redacted names at the end of multiple enumerators book that I was reviewing.

I am doing a friends and neighbor search so have scanned the pages before and after where my ancestors are present.  It then became very obvious when I scrolled through the filmstrip that this was in more than 1 enumerators area, ruling out an institution for multiple children.

I am looking at Middlesex, Hornsey Metropolitan Borough but it was the same on the Middlesex Friern Barnet MB I recently viewed. Not on all but most.
This is not individual members of a family but sometimes whole pages of blacked out entries.

My speculation would be they were all children that had been evacuated but that would mean they are counted twice?

Does anyone know the real answer to what they are?


 
Title: Re: 1939 Register question
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 05 September 22 04:02 BST (UK)
My initial thought when I read your post was possibly hospitals or schools with infants/children but for them all to be at the end of the books is unlikely.

I think not many people will have come across what you have i.e. maybe post a link for those with access to work out?

It seems rather odd  :-\

Annie

Title: Re: 1939 Register question
Post by: Mhillbilly on Monday 05 September 22 04:18 BST (UK)
Not sure how to post a link but looked at another relative this time in Islington Metropolitan Borough in London and again got a similar result

Attached is the screen shot from ancestry showing pages on film strip

Title: Re: 1939 Register question
Post by: Rosinish on Monday 05 September 22 05:07 BST (UK)
Is it possible to email them with the relevant info. & pic to enquire?

Annie
Title: Re: 1939 Register question
Post by: Dundee on Monday 05 September 22 05:28 BST (UK)
The last column in the two page spread is not viewable to us (or anyone) and that is the 'postings' column.

The ‘postings’ column on the right hand page which contains various codes used for National Registration and National Health Service purposes. The National Archives does not have access to this column and the information it contains.

When this column is full there is a continuation entry added at the end of the book so you will see these lists of individuals who already appear in earlier recorded households.  They are usually noted as 'see page x'.  It makes sense that most are redacted because they are likely to be younger people  who lived longer and so generated the most recorded health events.

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/1939-register/

Debra  :)

Title: Re: 1939 Register question
Post by: J.R.Ellam on Monday 05 September 22 06:57 BST (UK)

A lot of the people have a also been in the registers. They appear with a line through them and a note saying what page they are on.

The enumerable number & address will let you know what the first entry is so you should look at that for the rest of the family.

Regards
John
Title: Re: 1939 Register question
Post by: Mhillbilly on Tuesday 06 September 22 23:32 BST (UK)
Thank you all for your comments

The answer is they were created after the census was taken as continuation records,  thank you Debra for pointing to the national Archives explanation.

If you would like to prove it then just find one with a 'see page x' notation and follow the link.
It also explains why some have started to appear as the process of matching death records releases records.

Thanks again
I know we sometimes go down 'rabbit holes' but it is nice to have them closed.

Title: Re: 1939 Register question
Post by: Mean_genie on Wednesday 07 September 22 01:16 BST (UK)
A page at the end of a book often consists entirely of 'continuation entries' - you can also tell by the fact that the schedule numbers are out of sequence, and often in different handwriting. But most of the the blacked-out lines will be blank, and not actual closed/redacted entries.
Title: Re: 1939 Register question
Post by: Kiltaglassan on Wednesday 07 September 22 07:06 BST (UK)

The answer is they were created after the census was taken as continuation records....


It wasn't a census in 1939 - it was the 1939 National Register.
This was used to help with the issue of ID Cards and Ration Books.
It was then taken over by the NHS and updated by them until the 1990's.



Title: Re: 1939 Register question
Post by: Andy J2022 on Wednesday 07 September 22 08:17 BST (UK)
It wasn't a census in 1939 - it was the 1939 National Register.
If we are being pedantic, it was a census, in the sense that a census is a government mandated count of the population. Arguably it provides more information than the 1841 census. However I would agree that it needs to be distinguished from the decennial counts we normally associate with the word census when discussing such matters among genealogists/family historians since we like to be punctilious when citing our sources
Title: Re: 1939 Register question
Post by: KGarrad on Wednesday 07 September 22 08:49 BST (UK)
The National Archives themselves have this to say:

While the 1939 Register is not a census, it is arranged along similar lines and includes similar, if less detailed, information. It does, however, show exact dates of birth where census returns simply give a person’s age.

Taken from: https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/1939-register/ (point 3)
Title: Re: 1939 Register question
Post by: Guy Etchells on Wednesday 07 September 22 09:57 BST (UK)
It wasn't a census in 1939 - it was the 1939 National Register.
If we are being pedantic, it was a census, in the sense that a census is a government mandated count of the population. Arguably it provides more information than the 1841 census. However I would agree that it needs to be distinguished from the decennial counts we normally associate with the word census when discussing such matters among genealogists/family historians since we like to be punctilious when citing our sources

No if we are being pedantic it is not a census as it was taken under seperate legislation i.e. The 1939 National Registration Act rather than under the Census Act 1920 (the act that covers all census taken after 1920.)
Cheers
Guy
PS see
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~framland/genealogy/acts/1920%20Census%20Act.htm
http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~framland/genealogy/acts/1939%20Registration.htm
Title: Re: 1939 Register question
Post by: Guy Etchells on Wednesday 07 September 22 10:12 BST (UK)
Deleted
Title: Re: 1939 Register question
Post by: J.R.Ellam on Thursday 08 September 22 07:16 BST (UK)
It is a register and not a census it does not give relationships or place of birth, even the 1841 census indicated if they are born in the County.

John
Title: Re: 1939 Register question
Post by: Jebber on Thursday 08 September 22 07:28 BST (UK)
It was not a count of the population because, except with a few exceptions, it did not include members of the armed forces. ;D
Title: Re: 1939 Register question
Post by: Jon_ni on Thursday 15 September 22 18:15 BST (UK)
Quote
It was not a count of the population because, except with a few exceptions, it did not include members of the armed forces

Members of the Armed forces were in fact 'enumerated' but in a separate Register held by the MOD.
"There are two supplemental paper registers which are not available to the public. One covers those on duty in the armed forces, for example soldiers at an army barracks. The other covers those born after 29th September 1939 and before the paper register ended in 1951."
https://www.whitehousefhc.org/1939%20REGISTER%20160402.doc
The National Archives say "Registration of members of the armed forces was dealt with by the military authorities, so the 1939 Register does not include service personnel in military, naval and air force establishments."

So if applying the criteria of "The census is a head count of everyone in the country on a given day." it may well tick that box, although we cannot see those names. Many by 29 Sep 1939 were already abroad serving but only the 1911 and 1921 had enumerated those serving overseas in the Army. When you think about it as it served as the basis of the 1948 National Health Service (NHS) Register all those men + nurses etc had to have then or be allocated later a code number too.
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/census-records/