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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: pkincaid on Wednesday 31 August 22 02:36 BST (UK)
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I am trying to determine the proper uniform accessories for a WW2 R.C.A.F. Hospital Assistant. I have a contemporay picture of the person in uniform but his cap is turned such that I can't determine what the badge was. I suspect it was the RCAF like at this link:
https://image.invaluable.com/housePhotos/CenturionAuctions/56/638956/H5403-L162726748.jpg.
For shoulder badges he has the caduceus. He also has his L.A.C. wing on his upper arm. I can't tell from the picture what he has for a shoulder patch, nor buttons, nor the patch on his forearm. Any help determining what these are would be greatly appreciated.
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By the looks of it, it appears that the caduceus are of the type in this pic at:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/19/f2/23/19f223523bcbf6a1bd84a7a07d97716f.jpg
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In case this helps, this was my dad. After completing his training at RCAF Manning Depot in Toronto he served in the station hospitals at RCAF Depot 4 Yarmouth, NS and at Goose Bay, Labrador. He was discharged on medical grounds in 1945 and he never talked about it.
A sister of his claimed that a plane he was in was shot down and he sustained serious injuries including the need for a metal plate in his forehead. He never talked about what happened. However, for several years after the war he suffered from seizures and would get quite emotional whenever there was the sound of a plane diving/crashing in tv shows/movies. After he and my mother passed away I came into possession of their courting letters and in one he revealed to my mother that he was in a plane crash in WWII. He had an album of pictures of the base in Goose Bay and about half a dozen or so of the pictures were that of a large burial procession of about a dozen coffins.
In looking at the records of servicemen deaths in Goose Bay in the online database of the Canada War Graves Commission (CWGC) 11 servicemen died on 6 July 1944. This was clearly the procession in question as the only other multiple deaths recorded there were 3 deaths on 10 March 1943 and 4 on 3 November 1944 (with another death there a week later). It does not look like this was the incident affecting my dad as he was not hospitalized around this time. They were:
Toronto Composite School hospital, from Friday, 4 June 1943 to Monday, 21 June 1943, (18 days followed by 14 days sick leave from 24 June 1943 to 7 July 1943);
Yarmouth station hospital, from Monday, 3 January 1944 to Friday, 7 January 1944 (5 days);
Goose Bay station hospital, from Wednesday, 6 December 1944 to Saturday, 9 December 1944 (4 days);
Goose Bay station hospital, from Tuesday, 12 December 1944 to Friday, 22 December 1944 (11 days);
Dartmouth station hospital, from Thursday, 11 January 1945 to Thursday, 25 January 1945 (15 days); and
Moncton hospital, from Tuesday, 6 February 1945 to Wednesday, 7 March 1945 (30 days followed by 14 days special leave from 7 March 1945 to 20 March 1945).
Based on the information I learned to date, the evidence suggests that any accident occurred enroute from Goose Bay to Dartmouth for Temorary Duty at #5 CMB Hospital Dartmouth. He flew there on 10 January 1945 and was admitted to Dartmouth station hospital the next day where he remained for 15 days. Twelve days later he was back in the hospital where he remained for 30 days. He was then granted 2 weeks special leave and then he was discharged. I presume that he was readmitted due to him starting to have seizures.
This is quite a family mystery. All I was able to get from Veterans Canada was standard genealogical type documents. The rest is sealed for 20 years after his death. I won't get access to this for a few more years. My health has been such that perhaps I won't make it to solve this.
Help on his proper uniform accessories and any ideas about what plane crash he might have been in is appreciated.
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All I was able to get from Veterans Canada was standard genealogical type documents. The rest is sealed for 20 years after his death. I won't get access to this for a few more years. My health has been such that perhaps I won't make it to solve this.
It may be worth getting back in touch to enquire about receiving the full documentation if you can provide all necessary proof/docs. of being his child & ask which documents you need to submit & explain the time limit may mean you won't survive long enough to access them & if need be you can provide medical records of your own existing ailments.
It seems a bit harsh for a child who is NoK (Next of Kin) can't access their parents' records.
Here in Scotland/England/Wales & possibly Northern Ireland which I'm unsure about, we can access our parents' docs. with the appropriate proof.
Annie
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The shoulder patch seems to be an Eagle for the UK RAF and not for the RCAF.
There is no CANADA above the Eagle.
RAF Eagle
https://www.dearoldblighty.com/en-GB/all-items/ww2-raf-printed-shoulder-eagles-/prod_18252#.Yw7wn3bMJPY
RCAF Eagle:
https://www.brittonsbadges.co.uk/en-GB/all-badges-currently-in-stock/a-wwii-canadian-royal-air-force-shoulder-title/prod_10347#.Yw7wOnbMJPY
Tony
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pkincaid, I would agree with you about the capbadge.
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Rosinish: In 2011 they gave me a package and noted the rest, medical details, etc., is sealed for 20 years. Still in effect according to https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/transparency/atippr/Pages/Access-information-military-files.aspx. Staff would need legislative ammendments.
Tonepad: RAF eagle is an interesting observation. His service overseas was mainly in Labrador which was not then part of Canada. However, he also had unspecified temporary duties beyond Canada which I understood included participating in the air transport of wounded back to Canada. I assume he was thus under RAF command in Goose Bay.
Andy J2022: In light of his shoulder patch being an RAF Eagle, wouldn't it make sense that his cap badge was also RAF. This is all an interesting twist.
In support of his sister's claim that he had a plate in his forehead due to a crash, I should add that his discharge papers record a scar on his forehead. This was not in his attestation records upon joining up.
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In light of new info, I now suspect that patch on his forearm was the following found at https://www.cdnmilitarycollectors.com/t3228-2-rcaf-goose-bay-patch-1943.
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Scratch my last post. That's not the forearm patch. The following is a new scan of the picture of the forearm patch as well as the cap and shoulder patches.
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Hi pkincaid,
As you are most probably aware the difference between the RAF and RCAF cap badge is slight - just the C entwined in the initials in the centre, so very difficult to see which it might have been from the photo alone. If you have some of his official documentation, does this not say which service he was in? His service number, if you know it, may also provide a clue.
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Papers all relate to RCAF. The shoulder patch is a new twist but I have to assume that RAF and RCAF shoulder patches were interchangeable and this occurred because he was stationed in Goose Bay. Were the forearm patches related to his trade or what unit he was under?
I see no indication of him being under a particular wing or squadron. After his training I only see him just assigned to station hospitals at Yarmouth, Goose Bay and Dartmouth as well as a reference to Temporary 'duty beyond Canada.' The latter may just relate to being in Goose Bay.
Outside this plane crash mystery I would say his service was unremarkable. Regardless, he came away with some ptsd, a head wound, seizures and suffered for several years after with ulcers. He went on to have a respectable career in education and filled many top positions in local community services and church organizations. He was the most honorable person I've ever known - being a mostly quiet stoic person of deep faith. This mystery plane crash had a profound affect on his life - hence my desire to learn as much as I can about his service.
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The circular badge on the lower sleeve is attached to a band which goes around the sleeve.
This badge is not aligned vertically underneath the LAC and Eagle badges.
The circular badge is possibly a Nurse Training School lapel badge:
https://www.britishmilitarybadges.co.uk/products/ww2-nurse-training-school-royal-air-force-raf-enamel-and-gilt-lapel-badge.html
Tony
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On the forearn badge, my guess would be some sort of trade qualification. The RAF didn't really go in for formation tactical flashes on airmen's uniforms, unlike the USAF. As for his sub unit at Goose Bay, this is most likely to have been Admin Wing, which would have contained personnel such as medics, cooks, clerks and gound transport elements etc.
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Thank you for your comments Andy J2022. Especially about the Admin Wing.
He was always referred to as a Hospital Assistant. The course he graduated from was a Hospital Assistant's course. I always understood that it was distinctive from a nurse. What his duties were I have not figured out. I understood that he assisted surgeons at times (I recall hearing that he did some stitching) and thought about medical school post war, but he said that his hands were not steady enough to be a surgeon. I suspect part of his role was also requisitioning and maintaining hospital inventory as he had General Store Clerk experience pre-war. His father was a member of the 8th Ambulance Brigade of the Canadian Army Medical Corps in World War I. So he appears to have been trying to follow in his footsteps in terms of military service.
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It may be worth getting in touch here...
https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research/online-exhibitions/americans-in-the-royal-air-force/eagle-squadrons/more-eagles/
Annie
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I found the old letter my dad wrote to my mother a few months before they married in which he refers to the plane crash he was in during the war - that I referred to in a prior post here. The letter was dated 10 May 1955. In it he writes:
"I am nervous - I was in a plane crash during the war. I was one of the lucky ones. I was badly hurt, in a way I never got over it, as I am still very nervous, perhaps Shirley can tell you a bit what I was like after I came home for awhile. Me I try to forget all the horror I saw, but I like a veteran you see things so horrible it hard to forget and to horrible to talk about."
Shirley was a sister. This sounds a lot like there were a number of fatalities. Looking a crashes in Goose Bay during the war (that I noted in a prior post here) the most likely candidate was the one in November as he started having continual problems needing hospitalization starting in December. However, the one month gap is a problem. The amount of fatalities in the crash of the previous July would be more traumatic, but that leaves an even bigger gap.
So my hope is that a reader of this thread would be familiar with the history of RCAF Goose Bay to solve this mystery for me and my family. Was there a plane crash in December? Perhaps local records or newspaper clipping refer to it. My father was clearly traumatized by it. I found an early 1950s writeup about him and he had redacted what was said about his war service. To the point of being completely unreadable.
I appreciate this forums help and patience with this post. Perhaps someday a researcher will come along and at least appreciate this family lore/tibit of this fatal and mysterious plane crash apparently at RCAF Goose Bay.
Thanks!
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I forgot to add one of the few things my father ever said about his service during the war. It may have a bearing on things. He noted that two pilots (one American) got in a big fight over who was the better pilot. Afterwards (it may have been the next day as my recollection on the timing is vague) the opportunity arose where they both got access to planes and they got in a dog fight over the base. They shot/took each other down and both were killed. Certainly not your usual war story given in history books.